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Canburglar Mechanisms
As we head into week 4, I'm intrested in Canburglar Mechanisms that were built at the competition? Our team is thinking about having a back up mechanism for this and we wanted to see some designs that were already out there.
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Heh? Do you mean devices to pull RC's off the step, perhaps?
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Well, a piston and a polycarb hook is all you really need right? ;)
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At GKC last weekend 1806 SWAT and 1730 Team Driven outfitted 1777 Viking Robotics with dual fishing poles/aluminum hooks during the first several matches of playoffs. Worked fantastically in autonomous (which only got a single trial btw). Can be done very easily with good results on a robot that is underweight and has pneumatics already.
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There are tons of videos from Weeks 1 & 2 up on The Blue Alliance. It'll take an hour or two, but going through the events and watching Quarter Finals yields some pretty nifty designs. There are some things we thought wouldn't work, but teams found a way to do it. There are some pretty awesome designs out there.
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https://youtu.be/fv-m27y7new I would guess that the whole system weighed maybe 10lbs the poles weren't that much weight and the pneumatic cylinders were probably a pound a piece. The structure below was maybe 3-4 pounds. |
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Team 144 had them at Pittsburgh (week 2) and ran most of the matches refining the timing and accuracy. Cool to see that we had them in our initial design.:cool: We're built to play our part of the game! Check em out here. about 7:05 into the video....
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At the NYC Regional team 1796 the RoboTigers mounted a modified tape measure that was motorized to the midpoint of the uprights of their lift mechanism just before Eliminations began.
Something along the lines of a Stanley "Fat Max" style with a small hook on the end. They were able to pull up to the edge of the landfill and extend it like a snakes tongue into the top hole of the recycling can. It was a very simple yet effective way to accomplish the task and overcome the distance challenge of reaching the cans on the step. The only time I saw it not work was when a piece of litter thrown by the opposing alliance just happened to hit it while extended. They reeled it in and sent it back out again right away with no lasting issues. It reminded me of 2002 when we were all trying to have a piece of the robot extend back into our "home zone" |
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We have a mechanism built, but due to weight restrictions and our robot not being able to start on the other side of the landfill, we probably won't be able to use it. But, we will bring it to both Bayou and Lone Star, and hopefully strap it on an alliance partner if possible.
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How did you do that?
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I was able to catch 1678's Canburgler in action at CVR.
Count on them improving this system. It is fast now, but likely will get faster and may even grab more in the future. |
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Carbon fiber to reduce weight ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bj9MsC7UOM
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Team 3184 grabs two cans at a time. https://youtu.be/qSD1OgMCxR8
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I'm waiting for a team with four 'minibots' that fall over onto the containers and are pulled back to the robot.
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We designed a can grabber last night in under 3.5 lbs. With a high flow valve, it could be under half a second to grab. With CAD, it's fairly easy to get right. I'll release the design once we fabricate it and know it works as-intended.
1.) 2D sketch the landfill & step, including totes/RB's 2.) Position robot in notional grabbing position in that sketch. 3.) Figure out where on your robot a can grabber would mount, then measure from that point to the center hole of the RC can 4.) Subtract that distance from 78" and that's the maximum height the pivot point can be at for the grabber. 5.) Add Pneumagics. Since the total rotation is ~90 degrees, the math for a bell crank is extremely simple. 6.) CAD mounts, fabricate them (CNC or any other plate-milling/cutting machine really helps, but isn't 100% necessary) 7.) Plan to get calibrations of angle on Thursday at the event |
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-Mike |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDR07Pw7qwg |
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1610 has one....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJoD...RUtz3Dy8ynfN3A
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Although our team doesn't have something (yet) that grabs the bins during autonomous, we were able to grab the bins from the step over the upside down totes once a member of our alliance (sometimes us, but many times our partners) cleared the landfill. It was a critical component of our success at Virginia this year, but we do hope to improve the system's capabilities.
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3418: Robo-Riot had a really cool design in Wisconsin which went in the top of the can and expanded, allowing the can to be lifted. It wasn't the most successful, but it was the coolest design I've seen so far. It looks light.
I'll try to dig up some video. 2530: inconcievable had a more effective canburglar, which was definitely part of their original design, its just a 4 bar with hooks on the end. Very effective, although they didn't do it in auto. |
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1538 did a really nice steal mid-match in the finals of Arizona east. Less than 20 seconds left, they saw the opposite alliance trying to grab a can, so they stopped pursuing the one they were already going for and grabbed that one out of the clutches of their opponent. Even though they lost, it was still a really good play.
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It won't win any speed races, but we managed to mine a bit of green gold in seven straight playoff matches at Bayou this weekend:
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May i ask what revision you are on now?:rolleyes: |
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Is there a list anywhere of teams with Canburglers?
Canburgler- A robot component designed to retrieve recycling container(s) from the step in autonomous. My quick list would be: 27 33 118 610 987 1114 2056 2137 3322 My list is skewed heavily to Michigan and big name teams. I would also like to count only teams that have done it in a competition, videos are easy make when you have unlimited takes. |
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Add 1736. We consistently took at least 1 off the step during auto at Central Illinois. Video here of a 'race' to the step. Here's a playlist if you would like to see how consistent we were. We took at least one off in autonomous in all but our first qualification match. |
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1918 and 1718 have them as well.
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16's reveal video showed a 2 container auto, and this video you can see them aiming for two and getting one. At Alamo, 4063 had a 4 container auto that hooked onto the handles, and 2415 had a 2 container one (I believe 2415 only had it in elims though). I'm not sure if there are videos of Alamo recorded as they're not on TBA. 2848 got 3 out of 4 (and knocked the 4th over onto their side) here This video shows 1986 getting 2 An updated list (adding every team that has been mentioned so far): 16 27 33 118 610 971 987 1114 1339 1678 1718 1736 1918 1986 2056 2137 2415 3310 3322 4063 |
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From the match videos that I have seen teams 118 and 1678 seem to be the fastest. Both robots do not need to move before releasing their can grabbers. In order to reach the 2 cans their arms extend out as/or after they are released.(required to stay below the 78" height limit) Most other robots must drive to the totes before releasing their arms.
Does anyone that has seen these robots in person know how the arms are extended?:confused: Thanks Also, 558 and 329 can be seen grabbing cans here http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...light=waterloo |
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Team 144 - regularly at Pitt and next week at QCR - seen here about 7:04 of this video
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365. They're grab is actually pretty quick, though I think they're still working on how long it takes to back up. Example match. (This is just the first match I clicked on; I only watched the first few seconds.)
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I wonder how long this list is going to get...
Here's an example of 180's mechanism in Orlando: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei0p...K9Fgt&index=96 |
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Add 548 to the list
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It really doesn't matter who is fastest at getting to the bins... it matters who comes away with them :ahh:, I'm excited to see these mechanisms go head to head.
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We inadvertently had our getaway in "delay" mode, so we both had hold of the same can - 141 by the handle and 1918 by the lid. We took the can and also part of their "hand". Later, they stopped by our pit and "gave us the finger", decorated with a fingernail and knuckle. We all had a good laugh. |
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http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=136071 |
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We both have round tubing held inside of square tubing. We used a bearing block on the outside of the square tubing, and an internal bearing block on the end of the round tubing inside to keep it constrained at two points while it slid. We both extended our mechanisms by just running a string from our elevator frame down the end of the square tubing to the bottom of the round tubing. As the arm traveled through it's range of motion the string would pull the round tubing up through the square tubing the exact same amount every time it fired. I can also tell you though that 3310's mechanism was faster than ours when we were running it with two motors (decided we didn't need all 6 for sac since it's getting scrapped anyways). Hope that answers your question. |
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Steal from the best, invent the rest! And after working with them at Sac, and can accurately and emphatically state that 118 is the best. -Mike |
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no one ever mentions the PNW :'(
we have 1318 who's auto works quite well... and well that's actually all I've seen in competition (for auto anyways) skunkworks robotics has retrofitted one as shown here https://www.facebook.com/Skunkworks1983?fref=nf and we are planning on a similar retrofit (functionality unknown as of now, I couldnt go to the meeting today) |
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Updated list with state/country
16-AR 27- MI 33- MI 118- TX 141-MI 144- OH 180-FL 329- NY 365- DE 548 -MI 558- CT 610- Canada 971- CA 987 - NV 1114- Canada 1318- WA 1339- CO 1678- CA 1718- MI 1736- IL 1918- MI 1986- MO 2056- Canada 2137- MI 2415- GA 3310- TX 3322- MI 4063- TX This seems like a very underwhelming number to me right now... |
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FRC558 has one, we ran Rev 1.0 and Waterbury and 2.0 at the Rhode Island District last week.
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Found a fight over some cans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8JMrLVWj2E (I know there was a post about that at some point but I cant find it so I'm just gonna put this here)
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Some NE teams that have Canburgars: 58, 126, 138, 237, 230 (?)
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Here a couple from the Wisconsin regional: 93-WI 1714-WI 2338-IL 2530-WI 2481-IL (Not at WI Regional but I know they have one) There were a few more that I know I am forgetting. |
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1421, team Chaos from MS has one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4syN...ature=youtu.be |
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Team 4334 from Canada has one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q3GQ7v79xI 624 has one too, but we've never actually used it in competition (no need to, we've been the 3 tote auto team for our alliance at both of our regionals so far), so I guess it may not count officially. |
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Apparently taking bins from the middle almost every round makes it your signature move...
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We do not have a canburglar but are in the design process. How do you build a world class 2 can canburglar with 4 lbs of weight to spare?
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We only used it a few times at Wisconsin, but we're getting it all ready to go for the Queen City Regional next week. Our is basically just a 4 bar linkage with a hook on the end. The mechanism is the inspiration for our robot's name this year, Captain Hook. |
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We have one that worked successfully (90% success rate) at the Bayou Regional.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SplhWEm06K0 |
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I'm currently designing a middle step can grabber like 610's but strictly mechanical actuation as an afterthought, until I realized that the empty step area is nearly 4 feet in width and then I have to add the width of the cans meaning I'd have to make an appendage with at least a 7.5 foot wingspan in order to grab both cans in the middle. I really hope my calculations are incorrect because that's a fairly large thing to be swinging around in the field.
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Yesterday in the two Finals matches at the Livonia District there was a canburglar race between 503 and 548. Very fun to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiOZN4G4OxI |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXzk...ature=youtu.be |
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How do both you and 503 actuate your canburglers? Does this difference in start time come mostly from the difference between the mechanisms, or does FMS initialization delay factor in? |
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I went through frame by frame and it looks like .3s...seems a lot more realistic. Congrats though. Your grabber looks like it's among the fastest that's been released. |
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One of our mentors took some 60 fps video of it and claims that our travel time was 1 frame shorter once we started moving :). |
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That was fun to be a part of, though. |
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We have one as well. Haven't had any Can battles yet, but it should get interesting at the PNW DCMP.
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Do those arms extend at all? Do you drive forward at all? |
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During elims, we had a dual can grabber. Two hooks actuated by pistons.
The consistency and speed need work, but we ended up with grabbing at least one can in each of our playoff matches. |
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One interesting thing to note is that at the Livonia district (where the 503/548 "Battle of the Baseline Bins" occurred) the first three picks were all bin stealers - 548, 27, 503. Granted Robotstangs were seeded 2nd and had been 1st for most of the previous day, but neither 27 or 503 were in the top 8 during alliance selections - 10th and 12th iirc. This goes to show how control of the center bins becomes much more important during high levels of play. Even in a district playoff, alliances can exceed the 3 standard cans and will need extras. Especially in finals where games are win/loss, controlling these center game pieces is crucial. I'm excited to see how the FRC meta progresses. Last year's was really fun to see how the game gradually evolved into passing the ball as fast as possible without using the actual floor, but this year's bin stealing meta will be just as exciting I predict. I think the FRC community is gonna go wild when tug-of-wars become really common.
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Do you have to fire the pneumatics for the power takeoff, or do they start in burglar mode?
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Team 2851 had one at Center Line, and AFAIK it was the only one there.
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Team mean machine has been developing some burglars in the gaps between events. Unfortunately, we had literally no weight to spare, (after factoring in other planned changes) so the whole thing had to be less than the weight lost by switching to mini cims (2.5 lbs).
Our current iteration has two modular mechanisms that can grab one RC each in about 0.5 sec. They attach with two bolts each, so they are easy to cheesecake. Each one weighs 1 lb and 2.3 oz! I'll try to post a picture when I get a chance. Otherwise, they will hopefully be seen at pnw this weekend. |
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We now have "fast" Dual-RC ability (we can be official "CanS burglar" in auto) woo hoo!!!.. thanks! GB via MK!
Cheese-caking in crunch time is a great experience for us as a second year team! Already a regional was won with those very arms we borrowed.... via other bot (let you guess which fantastic team). Hope to do the same and repeat with hopefully a win in SD this week to make it back to STL...just missed in Ventura by 2 average points getting it to work to finals knocking eventual winners out. Was not ready in time for semi #1. Was for #2 and #3. Oh well we (with can burgling arms that work) live on...with that new found can burgling capability and bringing it to our second regional in SD this week should be fun. We were most "modifiable" lost weight over 13 lbs and ..great for us we hope to put those arms to great use in SD...and hope to make it to STL with our bot! Amazing add on in crunch time! just shows how one "bad over 100" trying to get it working (we got a foul with arms extended out of field) ... match knocks you out of finals by only 2 average points... I feel particularly bad for teams 696 and 1836...they both tried extra hard to get it working in time for first semi. Thanks for all your efforts teams ! Good luck rest of way! We love the new can-burgling arms when needed. Thank you! You made us a better/stronger alliance partner. |
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