Chief Delphi - Reason why NOT to throw litter into other alliance's field?

Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)

- General Forum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

- - Reason why NOT to throw litter into other alliance's field? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135992)

Re: Reason why NOT to throw litter into other alliance's field?

It sounds to me like this could be entirely resolved if you just asked your drive coach why he didn't want you throwing litter. There are numerous reasons not to throw litter including pre-arranged agreements, waiting for co-op stack, or to avoid littering your own side of the field. You can't know unless you ask though.

Re: Reason why NOT to throw litter into other alliance's field?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tStano (Post 1460653)

"In quals" to me means a cumulative total in all qualification matches, where 243 is about 24 points a match.

ok that makes more sense...

Re: Reason why NOT to throw litter into other alliance's field?

Speaking as a human player this year, there are many good reasons to throw noodles and not to throw noodles.
Doing a Cost-Benefit Analysis, throwing noodles is a kind of risk that you have to take and it really depends on the bot.

Cost (in order from most worst to least worst scenarios/ consequences):
You Risk...
- Getting the noodle on top of a Scoring Platform on your alliance (leading to problems for the space to stack and your alliances scoring abilities)
- Getting the noodle stuck on your landfill early in the match (resulting in trouble for a landfill bot)
- Getting the noodle stuck on the ground where your own alliance could get stuck on them or damage (which results in a field damage penalty)

Benefit
You Gain
- 4 points for each noodle in the other alliances auto and robot zone
- 2 points for each noodle in your landfill zone at the end of the match
You could
- Limit the amount of moves the other alliance has (by blocking their path)
- Limit the space on their scoring platform (thus in rare cases lowering their points)
- Block a key part of their robot (and stop their ability to score) <-- I did this once
- Noodle snipe and knock over one of their stacks while it's still on their robot<-- saw this once

Although the last two are unlikely, they are possible. it just tells you that the game designers made noodles part of the game just so that it wasn't a completely offensive game (although some could argue that some fat, big robots are defensive bots to even their own alliance partners). Noodles are meant to be thrown and as long as you can consistently get them past the landfill zones, you gucci.

My Strategy
For Co-op/ most qualification matches
- Help other H.P(s) with their totes for the H.P stations (drag stacks) during auton
- Keep refilling these stations until co-op is done
- if there are thirty seconds or less left, don't throw noodles
- otherwise, throw from the H.P station or not at all (i can throw from behind drive teams, but it's hella risky)

For Elim matches or no co-op matches
- Help other H.P(s) with their totes for the H.P stations (drag stacks) during auton
- Keep refilling these stations as needed- unless there is a station not being used
- If there isn't a station being used, take as many noodles needed (usually leave three for bins), throw
- Don't throw if the stations are both being used.

All in all, make sure it's appropriate for you to throw the noodles and make sure you are consistent.
Talk with your drive coach and make sure you understand completely why you were treated that way, definitely have another mentor with you.

Re: Reason why NOT to throw litter into other alliance's field?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rman1923 (Post 1460758)

- 2 points for each noodle in your landfill zone at the end of the match

A LITTER in your alliance's LANDFILL ZONE is only worth 1 point.

Re: Reason why NOT to throw litter into other alliance's field?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rman1923 (Post 1460758)

- Getting the noodle stuck on the ground where your own alliance could get stuck on them or damage (which results in a field damage penalty)

Eh, not so much on the penalty part. If you're getting penalized for driving over and damaging noodles, you're INTENDING to damage them, at least to the refs' eyes.

Quote:

- 2 points for each noodle in your landfill zone at the end of the match

See previously noted. I'm also going to point out that it's simply "not completely in the opponents' landfill" for the 4 points (paraphrased from the Manual)

Re: Reason why NOT to throw litter into other alliance's field?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1460506)

I think you may want to talk to your coach (and have your lead mentor present when you do, or another mentor if they are the same person).

First, you ask why you were restricted from throwing the noodles--strategy, or something else. Obviously, if you were restricted, there was a good reason, at least in their mind(s). As noted, there is the "Noodle Treaty" where alliances agree not to throw noodles until the coop stack is finished, BUT there is often a "kill statement" where at point X in the match, the noodles will fly regardless of actual stare of the coop stack. And sometimes a team or alliance will decide that they just don't want to throw.

Second, you may want to ask why you're having to ask the first question. To me, there appears to have been what I call a "severe communication breakdown"--plans apparently change (often late), but some segment of affected persons is, presumably accidentally, left out of the loop. Those incidents can be pretty serious, or pretty minor, and inevitably someone's not going to be happy.

And third, I think you should explain that because of the first two items (being on restriction, and not being told why) and additionally the replacement for playoffs (with no apparent reason), you feel [however you feel]. I think that any reasonable mentor would--after hearing about this--do their best to explain the reasons.

I know you didn't ask for all this, but--to me--it seems like you're a bit hurt by the whole thing, so I'm offering some advice on healing a little.

EricH beat me to it said it well.

Re: Reason why NOT to throw litter into other alliance's field?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtemusMaximus (Post 1461061)

EricH beat me to it said it well.

Agreed. There are two separate things going on in the OP's post.

One is a question inviting strategic discussion about when you might want to throw noodles - or not.

The other is an implicit question - "why was I kicked off my drive team?" For which a conversation with the coach is the only place to get a reasonable answer.

I think Daniel_LaFleur said it best with "GP should be an internal measure of your own actions, and not a measuring stick of others". I hope the OP is able to have a chat with their coach and come to an understanding of what happened in their specific case.