Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

I really like the idea of this. I think an improvement in the pit would be having more calls for match cueing. At Hub City, our alliance partner almost missed the match due to "last call for match ___" not ever being said. Same goes with Dallas. The Pit Admin called "Cueing for match ___" once and never followed up until the next match is being cued.

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

the games themselves are quite confusing, but we can't really get rid of those

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

noooo not the Macerena :'(

On a different note; these competitions are not done for the bystanders, but for those who spent an inordinate amount of their time building a robot and want to have fun at these events. and let me tell you, after 2 hours straight of sitting, scouting matches, a dance break is more than welcome (especially at districts- those darned bleachers hurt!). Part of the atmosphere of FIRST is having fun at events, being serious only when needed and having fun the rest of the time. and awards cannot necessarily be given in between matches; if not given at the end of the event, some teams' improvements/cool stuff they do cannot be seen until near the end.

I could also go off on a tangent about how much I dislike your petition to end the shouting of robot, because that was another thing I liked about the atmosphere of FRC competitions, but that's for another place

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

As someone who probably hasn't danced at an FRC competition since 2009 (my freshman year of HS), I think it's obvious the effect it has on the energy level of the students and the competition. As odd as it is to have so much dancing at a robotics competition, removing it I believe would be detrimental to the impact that FRC has.

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

Yes, I liked the fact that showing up at an FRC event felt like going to any other sporting event like a hockey tournament, complete with silly music, sound effects, cheering, the wave, and so on.

Anything that makes STEM seem like a fun party time is a good thing, I think.

My local university used to broadcast courses on a cable TV channel. One that I would periodically tune into was some civil engineering course where the project was to build a bridge out of popsicle sticks. The prof would then load-test each bridge design to see how much weight it could handle before catastrophic failure. It was fun to watch - sort of - the guy was your typical dry stuffy prof and there was obviously mostly silence as he did the work in front of a quiet classroom. Your average jr high or high schooler would have got bored and switched the channel pretty quick.

Compare that with the energy levels at an FRC regional.

I think this thread went off bad. The op was never saying to ban dancing just to mix it up a bit.

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

3 years we got rid of our VIP program for the Chesapeake Regional and created a visitor program that allows visitors (including VIPs) to pick what they want to see and how much time they want to spend. We have menus, trained student and adult ambassadors, and have branded this "FIRST Stop". Stops can include sitting with an ambassador field side for a few matches, following an inspector, getting a tour of the NASA machine shop, visiting FLL/FTC/Jr.FLL, doing a round with a safety advisor, sitting with a team, talking with volunteers. It personalizes the visits, gives the "behind the scenes" look and the visitors leave understanding a lot more about the culture of FIRST (including all the dancing). It has been very well received.

A FRC event can be a confusing place for the uninitiated.

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

I think the single thing that would make matches less confusing for the public is for the announcers to use team names instead of numbers. (And of course for the names to be displayed as prominently and visibly as the numbers currently are.) Team numbers just aren't memorable for most people (with a few exceptions like 2468).

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

As a game announcer, I'd dispute that some teams made their numbers all that prominent! :rolleyes: It's actually in our training to pair the number with what will help the crowd keep up with the action...but part of that social contract is that teams have to give us something to work with! I'd love it if every team had a sick color scheme or was loud about their sponsors or just had a neat gimmick. Instead, (and I link to one of my past robots because I've been guilty too), we ship plain robots. (We did fancy that one up in the pits, to our credit.) It's something to work on for a lot of teams.

With the dancing, I see why FIRST generally does it that way: it keeps the energy level high versus starting and stopping as awards tend to be. Championship is different--more speakers force the hand, plus awards in the past--but Championship also has 100% of HQ's focus, planning, and manpower to pull it off. The rest of us are amateurs. ;)

I do like using the scoring display for more timeout detail than the field timer can display. Alliance timeout vs. field timeout, perhaps a backup team countdown, things like that. I know most events I attend have kids dancing on screen during a timeout, so it's not like it's running over a sponsor roll every time--but if so, just block out a safe area and plan accordingly. Easy!

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

I like that this thread has not taken a turn toward overly opinionated viewpoints, and has not focused only on the dancing. Really, we're answering the question of "Who exactly is Joe Public and what does he think of our program?"

I like some of the suggestions brought forth so far.

I like Koko Ed's suggestions. I could do without the Macarena and the Chicken Dance song. These are the two that really make me feel like "What is this and where is the robotics competition?" when I walk in the doors.

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

Up front, let me admit that I read only OP, not all of the ones in between.

It's simply in the nature of people that anything we do together, that we consider important, will quickly become full of tradition. The Navy's full of it, the Army's full of it, the Church is full of it, and the Moose Lodge is full of it. Most of these traditions are confusing to the outside community. When we identify a tradition that is detrimental to the community, it is certainly a mark of the community's vibrancy that it can discard tradition in pursuit of its higher goals. Cutting the calls of "robot" to only those situations necessary to clear a crowded corridor was perfectly sensible.

Line dancing, on the other hand, is something we do together. As the song Dancing in the Moonlight so eloquently declares:
. I think it's absolutely marvelous to see hundreds of kids wearing dozens of uniforms all moving together. I can't wait until my first trip to championships where it will be thousands of kids wearing hundreds of uniforms. And OBTW - a good fraction of the people watching also know these same line dances, and are probably making the same moves in their hindbrains if not their feet. The real message that these traditions send is that yes, these kids are real kids, and many of them like to bust a move just as much as anyone else.

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

I personally love the silly dance songs. After sitting there for most of the day scouting it's nice to have a dance break. Also for the people who don't understand the game and what is going on, most will just turn to the person next to them, who is wearing a team uniform most likely, and ask.

I was recently volunteering at the FiM Livonia district event and a UL safety advisor was sitting in the chair beside me next to the field. He politely leaned over and asked me what was going on. So I gave him a brief description of what was going on and why it was happening. Also he had his young daughter with him and when a dance song was being played the volunteers would dance on or near the field and we tried to get her engaged in the dancing too. Although she was shy she looked like she enjoyed watching us dance and have fun.

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

There have been a great number of ideas thus far for the FRC events. I am a person that has had a long history of competing in and coaching sports such as Football, Soccer, and Wrestling. So when I attended my first regional in 2013 I was taken aback by what I experienced. Where was the seriousness in all of this celebration? These kids just worked their arses off for 6 weeks to prepare for competition - why the joy before the final outcome?

Then it hit me - Why the joy and celebration? Because these kids have worked their arses off for 6 straight weeks forgoing lazy Saturdays in exchange for aluminum shavings and JB Weld. They have struggled, been frustrated, fought, finagled, redesigned, failed, failed, and failed again before they found a sliver of success. They have been with each other for too long... they have been with their mentors too long.

And now they compete. Whether it means the robot moves, or climbs a rung, or blocks a shot, or throws an exercise ball that clears the FTA tables - these kids did what most kids never do. Fail - time and time again. They fail in front of their peers - their teammates, and then try again. So when their robot is ready to compete - a robot that represents the collective goal of 4, 10, 20, or 34 kids - yes there is a reason to celebrate like idiots!

My first season as a FRC coach I had a student that was the most introverted of kids I have ever taught. So when he was in our Darth Maul mascot dancing the Macarena - his mom reached over and asked: "Is that really my boy? Is Zach really out there dancing in front of everyone?" She had tears streaming down her cheeks.

Yes, we do allow this in FRC. It is not for the spectators. It is for the students.

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

^This^

Re: Petition to end things that confuse the public
 

I totally agree with you that students deserve the celebration. It's great for them to do that, and I hope that the dancing tradition continues (although too often I find myself in the pits when the dancing is going on...). More songs would be nice though; I despise hearing the Cupid Shuffle over and over again.
But FIRST's mission is for both spectators and students, not one or the other. To have more students inspired there must be more spectators inspired.