More Finesse as a Driver
 

Okay so I am the backup robot driver on my team, only because I'm more of an offensive person. Last year, I had no problems going up and blocking people from making shots into a goal. But this year, I can't seem to get my fingers to settle down-I need to be more careful.

Any suggestions on how I can have more finesse as a robot driver?

-Thanks!

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

If you're using standard joysticks, I found it helps to hold them down at the base of the stick instead of at the top. Also, a key thing to remember is "go slow to go fast". It doesn't matter how fast you go if it doesn't go like you want it to.

And practice. Lots and lots of practice.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

Thank you. We use Xbox 360 controllers, though. I will try to practice more.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

I don't know how anyone could be precise with those...unless you're like me and practice driving by playing GTA V.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

I mostly play games like Call of Duty or Forza Motorsport, where the thumbsticks are almost never used less than 100% whereas this year's game requires me to move more slowly, so I don't knock 50 points of totes over.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

I would seriously recommend making the switch to standard joysticks. It takes a little bit of getting used to, but the added precision is well worth it.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

I'm driving with a logitech controller (the one from the KOP) and it's personally better for the precision... our backup driver has the same "problem" as him (he was our main last year), and he is always using regular joysticks...

It is probably because of you as a person, the way you handle pressure and react to it, not that it is a bad thing, just depends on the context.

in my opinion, it's all about the driver; this game may not be the best for you. Just remember you are good somewhere else :)

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

Like I said, I'm more of an offensive driver. Maybe next year the game will be something along the lines of Battlebots, then I can drive :D

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

Exactly :D

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

In response to the joysticks, I find that the xBox controller is easier to control with but I can use the standard joysticks just well, it just takes practice if you want to adapt. We usually design our driver's station around the drivers so they use what they are best with. In terms of driving better, I have found a few things help. One is adding buttons on the controller to enable a slow speed mode that limits the max speed of the robot giving fine control in those moments when it is needed. Another is squaring the values of the joysticks in the software so that their is finer control at the low speeds but at the high speeds it rapidly rises. If you do this just make sure you account for the sign (squaring a value will get rid of negatives). Practice is also important. Staying calm is very important. It may not seem like it but 2 minutes is a lot of time. When practicing, try to use the practice function on the driver's station to simulate the real stress of last second stacks. Be patient while driving. Tortoise vs Hare.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

First of all, we were 7th seed alliance partners in Escanaba. Hi! :D Secondly, thank you for your suggestions. Today I tried the 2:20 tele operated time limit and it seemed to make a difference after a few tries.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

Hello! I was 4392's Drive coach. Were you the diver at Escanaba?

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

Nope. I was one of the boys wearing a tutu..with the black fedora

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

At the beginning of the season and during testing in the lab I had a similar issue. I was used to the classic "Drive it like you stole it" mentality, playing extremely aggressively. One thing that helped me improve was simply sitting down with a gamepad identical to the one my team was using and going through the motions I had to make in a match. For instance, this year our team had some issues where if we didn't turn very very carefully then our stack would collapse. I practiced accelerating extremely slowly while I was doing other things. While I was having conversations or sitting around in my free time I would be gently moving around the analog sticks, trying to move as slowly as possible.

Also this year my team implemented software "gear shifting" that allows the driver to half the voltage going to our motors. Between these two solutions I was able to handle the unique challenges of driving in Recycle Rush.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

Thanks! I'm definitely going to try making the motions of driving the robot as we're headed to the Michigan Championships in a couple days. Thanks again!

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

I was driver during 2014 like you and was super aggressive and loved to play defense.

I think however what toned me down is our team's robot this year only goes like 5 feet a second in low gear whichiis its default. That kinda forced me to drive with more finesse.

Make one of the triggers on the gamepad reduce the speed by 40 percent when held if you don't have a shifting drive train.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

It's like how you get to Carnegie hall. Practice, practice, practice.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

Last year as driver I drove with two joysticks in a tank drive configuration (hands near the base of the controller) AND then i added a 3D printed pedal that i wired that when pushed the speed would become ~40% of what the controllers said.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

There are several things you can do to make it easier to drive. The code can be changed to make the joystick controls exponential (multiply the joystick value times the absolute value of itself). how is the controller set up? steering on one stick, throttle on the other, to make it "split arcade" seems to be more controllable than tank or arcade drive. And you can try an alternate type of controller, such as an RC car control with a small steering wheel and throttle trigger, wired into the guts of a normal USB controller. Also the robot drivetrain design has a lot to do with it, as well as the gear ratios. I've seen a few excellent teams using only one CIM per side on the robot drive this year. Omni wheels are pretty forgiving when turning the robot just a little bit.

We got lucky this year, our driver has fantastic control over the robot...and he sure needed it.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

I know it's been said, but above all, try switching to regular joysticks, and grip them at the base. I've driven robots with both styles, though the xox controller robots were at college, not FIRST bots, but as someone who has used both, I'd say traditional joysticks are leaps and bounds more accurate for precision driving. At least give it a try, you may like what you find.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

We have mecanum wheels and one motor per wheel, 4 wheels. The throttle and strafing is the same stick and turning the robot is the other stick.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

842 was having similar troubles. Maybe they will chime in

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

I would recommend scaling down the default mecanum turn rate in the code. I found that multiplying the rotation value by 0.4 worked for us. Anything more had us accidentally throwing totes. It increases your robot's stability by a lot without reducing your overall mobility. Also, if you don't use field-oriented drive, it will help a lot to simplify driving so you can better focus on being precise.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

Are we the same team? :p

In all seriousness, we had our programmer do exactly this after the Center Line quarterfinals, where turning from the feeder station would fling totes everywhere, and because of this change, during Windsor (our next event), the only times we lost a stack while driving was if the stack was already incredibly unstable.

For reference, for chassis driving we are using Logitech F310 game pads. Our driver found it much easier to drive mecanum than the Attack 3D Pro, because the twist axis would give unintended values when trying to simply drive forward or strafe.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

The two current games I have for fine motor control both are available on steam and don't break the bank too much.
1. Geometry Wars 3D
2. Waves
Things you can do with the xbox controller. Buy or print control freaks/joystick extensions for a controller. It feels weird at first but the longer the thumb stick the more control you have over it.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

I've been thinking of buying control freaks for my Xbox at home. Is it against FIRST rules to attach them to a driver's station controller?

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

Not much regulation on what can be put on the driver station.
Question 155
Q. Do motors that are connected with the Operator console need to follow all rules that apply to motors mounted on the robot?
FRC1339 on 2015-01-13 | 3 Followers
A. No, there are no rules that explicitly legislate motors used in the OPERATOR CONSOLE, however please consider T1 and make sure that the implementation doesn't pose risk to people.

This was prompted in response to wondering if you could add kinetic feedback to driver station controllers through motors.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

So, to make it clear, I can? Thanks! :D I think you may have solved my problem once and for all. I'll also try those two games.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

Have a slow gearing of your robot. I was a very aggressive driver last year and so this year came as a big change. I think the greatest thing I learned is "Drive slower to go faster." I tried going as fast as I can and i would dump stacks or make stupid mistakes. Practice, Practice, Practice! We had the opportunity to go to three district events this year and then district championships. As i got more practice things got much easier. The first two events I was 50-75% on our stacks. In the third It went well other than dropping two stacks of 6 in the same match:( In PNW championship we were 100% dropping no stacks. (This is excluding the match where a few zip ties were cut and our tower fell not letting us be able to stack)

I would also say to develop a routine. If you watch our playoff matches I did almost the same exact movements every match. This helps me to keep my nerves down and know the speed I have to go and have confidence that i do not have to rush. Since this years game is generally the same thing every match for a team, building a routine of the movements that you make can help with finesse a lot!

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

Here's a good example: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=94981

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

In my opinion, it usually comes down to the preference of the driver. If you have access to joysticks, I would try them. But as said earlier, it does come down to practice.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

There is no magic wand that will make you a better driver for this type of game - there are plenty of teams with gamepads running up high scores. Here are some tips:

Cap your max speed (note - not necessarily your acceleration!). There are a couple of ways to try this, including software (requires encoders) or hardware (remove 2 CIMs). The methodology is completely dependent on your robot however - removing 2 CIMs may make it very difficult for your robot to turn. Our best driver is comfortable at only 6-7ft/s, and when we 'sneak' it up on him he's noticeably worse. If you're only a single-speed bot, have a button which puts a software cap on the speed. One speed is for game piece interaction, the other speed is for short bursts of sprints.

In a typical year, use an active intake, or a more forgiving intake. Every year, your team should have an active intake or TONS OF PRACTICE. If you have neither, lower your expectations. This year, however, seems to require nothing but an active intake for the most successful teams. My team tried the practice route (had a driving robot early week 5) and it just hasn't panned out. Active intakes aren't easy to do this year since the game pieces are square and fairly rigid. Therefore the active intake must conform to the game piece rather than vice-versa. 2056's double-passive-articulating active-roller intake seems to have the best combination of compactness, effectiveness and versatility.

Be proactive in going over match flows with the coach, move-for-move before a match starts. Learn the situations you'll get into and how to deal with them. This can be done via practice or via finding other successful robots similar to yours and watching all of the video you can find.

Re: More Finesse as a Driver
 

I am the same way, I didn't drive last year but I did during all the offseason events. I was much better at playing defense and using an open and bigger field. I also loved hitting other robots, not meaning to hurt them but just playing regular defense.

I started the year driving at the Greater Pittsburgh regional, I was taken off from driveteam after messing up to much. I feel that this years game is completely different than prior years. I just have the skill set for these precise lineups and carefully maneuvering.
Luckily, I was immediately put on the pit crew so I still have an crucial role for the team.