Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

All the talk of "selecting the proper team to complement" a high-ranked alliance is totally true, from the point of view of the top alliance captains, and I know they take it seriously,* however it ignores the fact that by the time the top alliances get around to picking, their choice of "the best complement" is necessarily be made from among a group of teams that DOES NOT INCLUDE many teams that would have actually made a better "complement" - but got picked already. You can be the best "niche" team ever but if so, you will almost certainly be picked BEFORE the top alliances get to their second picks.

I do have to admit that it was hard for our team this year, when we had the best robot and drivers ever, to know at 11 a.m. on Saturday that because we were good enough to be picked by a #4, #5, or #6 Captain (and of course couldn't say no unless we wanted to put together our own #7 or 8 alliance with even worse chances), we had basically no chance of being a finalist (this may not be true at all competitions, I know the #6, 7 and 8 alliances have won a few this year, but it wasn't happening at either of ours), whereas a robot that wasn't even top 20 would have a much better chance of ending up on the winning alliance. Yes, they would have to be a decent robot, the best of what was available then; but EVEN IF we'd been the "best" complement to the #1 alliance, we had no chance of hanging around long enough 'unpicked' to be able to be chosen by them. And same was true of many very good robots, niche and otherwise.

*My comment about the "popularity contests" actually comes from second-hand anecdotes I have heard from years ago, not only re: FRC but (probably moreso) other competitions, that involve younger students. I haven't seen it happen the past few years in FRC, I have to admit. So consider it withdrawn as having been the ill-considered product of frustration.

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

Your comments are NOT unique to this years game. You hear the same concerns year after year.

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

This year, 3rd robots at regionals are cheesecake teams.

After 3 regional wins, multiple high scores, canburgalar races, and overall playing this game at higher level than 99% of FRC teams, I can say one thing for sure:

This. Game. Sucks.

Buckle up everyone, you have 2 more weeks to make the fastest can grabber in the world. Because at CMP, that is the only thing that matters.

Looking forward to not playing RR in the offseason, and hoping the GDC wakes up for 2016.

-Mike

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

Even as a driver, watching replays of our matches, I get kinda bored of seeing us sit for about 20 seconds just stacking totes at the feeder station. I definitely miss the past few years' games, at least every match was different.

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

This is what really gets me, the lack of variation between matches. I see this as a function of the lack of interaction between teams outside of snatching cans.

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

I could not agree more. At multiple regionals, including SDR this last weekend, the determining factor in the last few matches was who got the containers in the first 5 seconds of that match. After that, the game was decided. Good luck to everyone attending Championships, and I really can't wait until next year.

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

Some years are better than others. I don't dislike any of them. This year is cool, its just awesome to watch a good robot place this game, just like any other year. Last year was incredible for strategy, this year doesn't have much outside of design.

In recent years, my favorite game has been Aerial Ascent. Difficult challenge, fun to score, fun to watch. This year is a little underwhelming in some aspects, but still in the spirit of FIRST its fun to watch, and more fun to participate.


What will I tell my friends that I've made over the 10+ years of FRC involvement and are not participating this year? They aren't missing much. Some years are better than others, they know that. The rules changes certainly made this year more fun, but the challenge isn't fun like the glory days of 2004.

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

There are a lot of things I like about this game and some I don't (all highlighted in previous posts in this thread).

To me the biggest problem is the absolute disparity between teams at a regional. NorthStar had two powerhouse robots, several very good robots, and many other robots. We saw the same thing at 10K Lakes, and I am sure other regionals are seeing the same.

A deeper field of robots would certainly have contributed to more exciting matches, and far less predictable playoffs.

Throughout FRC we need to raise the overall level of the robots. A much deeper field of robots at each and every regional will enable any game to be exciting for everyone.

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

It seems very common that people are saying the main thing missing is defense or robot/robot interaction between the two alliances.

I would much rather watch the NCAA basketball national championship (Go Bucky) between the two teams with interaction and defense rather than each team sending out their players to see who makes the most 3 pointers or does the fanciest dunk without defense. The NBA has that during all star weekend, and it is boring.

The engineering challenge was amazing this year. The real world type challenge added some flavor. Watching 254 or 1114 makes stacks faster than anyone is so WOW, but once you have seen it, it would seem you have seen it a thousand times.

I am not wishing this year to be over as there is a lot to be played out. However I am hoping for robot/robot interaction next year at a minimum.

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

Couldn't agree more! Tired of hearing people complain that it's boring and then go on to say it's too hard. Some suggest on other threads of lowering the bar so everyone can compete. I agree with you, everyone should strive to raise the bar to achieve greatness. The great teams INSPIRE my team to do more using SCIENCE and TECHNOLOGY. I think the system works, and is not broken in my world.

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

It's still pretty fun for a bunch of us in the 99%.

Sorry about that.

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

Don't worry, we're still having fun. Hard not to with a Dean's List Finalist, WFFA, GP Award, Industrial Design Award, 3 Blue Banners, and a whole lot of hard working kids to be proud of.

Also, they play a lot of Taylor Swift at the competitions, which makes anything more fun.

You can still have a good time while playing a terrible game.

-Mike

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

Our team was 1st seed at the Montreal regional, and we had a canburglar mechanism to cheesecake on our 3rd bot. We didn't. We've let them use their own design, and it made them feel proud to win an event with their original robot. The finalist alliance did not have a cheesecake either, and we can be proud of it.

The game sucks only if you make it do so. :rolleyes:

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

At some point, the container grabbers 2nd picks have aren't going to be fast enough to win. Period. Watching finals at SVR, where 1678 cheesecaked their grabber onto 5027 who then fought with 971, should be enough to confirm this if it wasn't already clear. And at least at SVR, the red alliance would get at least 2 containers (1678 wasn't competing with anyone) and it was fairly clear that 254+1678 could outscore the blue alliance (just by pure stacking speed), so the two containers 5027 was trying to get wouldn't have decided the match. By champs, this will no longer be true. Teams aiming for Einstein are going to have to be willing to cheesecake and be cheesecaked, and 1678 knows this. They're just been getting some practice. :rolleyes:


After attending two regionals and watching countless webcasts, my opinion on this game hasn't changed. It's still amazing to watch at the highest levels (go watch qual 88 at SVR if you don't believe me), but the huge gap between the few top teams and the average team makes a typical match less than exciting. Recycle Rush is a great engineering challenge, but a terrible game.

Re: A Recycle Rush Reflection
 

This gap is huge this year because good robots will always be able to perform in quals, even with the last seeded ones as alliance partners.