Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

If there is a robot left to drive. Many mentors are not good drivers.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

This is something that should have been done initially.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

I'd prefer that each tote is worth [level of the bottom-most point of the tote] + 2
1 tote stack (level zero)=2
2 tote stack=2+3=5
3 tote stack=9
6 tote stack=27

Makes canburglars not as powerful, rewards taller stacks.
(and this is coming from a mentor on a team that specializes in canburgling, and can only do 5 stacks, for now)

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

Make strategic violations of G7 a red card and make the landfill extend the entire width of the field.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

If we wanted to limit the "can grab/game over in 250 milliseconds" games... not saying we necessarily want to...

It would be simple to only allow a single can grabbing robot for each team with a maximum of 2 cans grabbed in auto.

We could still see the grabber races... but it would not determine the outcome of the game unless a team could move down and do the other 2 at the beginning of teleop.... (if the other team did not go for them)

Just a thought...

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

Wait, what? I know you were talking in the Can Burgler thread about ways to place the robot on (or over) the step without being in the Landfill Zone, but as far as I can tell, the Glossary of the manual has the Landfill Zone extending the full width, from guard rail to guard rail. What am I missing?

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

"Bounded by, but does not include, the STEP, GUARDRAILS, and a 2 in. line of White gaffers tape running between
the GUARDRAILS on either side of the FIELD. Each LANDFILL ZONE is an infinitely tall volume that extends 4 ft. 3 in. from the edge of
the STEP towards their ALLIANCE WALL." Game manual page 9. Also Q&A #52 says the game manual overrules the glossary.

And since the field definition includes the Guardrail, which includes the metal structure, that means the the outside of the field isnt the polycarb like we always thought, but its actually the outer edge of the guardrail. So when refs put the ref stations super close to the guardrail, or on the bottom part of the guardrail, they are actually putting the stations inside the field.

All of this means is that there is a 4 inch area on either side of the field where there is no landfill. So as the rules are right now its legal to go around.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

I figured you had something like that worked out (either that or you had a robot that balanced on the vertical sheet of the step :) ). I think that's an easy hole to mend - everyone expects the field boundary to be the polycarb.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

That's actually genius.
I so wish you used those in division finals, it would have been an incredible sight to see, even if it meant my team wouldn't have made Einstein.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

Whats also funny is that the field definition has had the same wording for years. So technically the field hasn't ended at the guard rail since at least 2013, but probably earlier.

Even better is that the Auto zone DOES extend the width of the field, just not the landfill...

We wanted to pull it out in the finals, but we would have lost 225, who was really necessary. Its main purpose was to allow us to win the can wars in the semis if we needed to advance.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

I've seen a lot of calls to change playoffs back to best-of-3 series, but I would propose a different solution that I think still corrects all the flaws of the current system.

• Divide the 8 alliances into two pools of 4. This can be in a predetermined fashion (e.g. 1, 4, 5, 8 and 2, 3, 6, 7) or semi-random (e.g. the sum of the alliance numbers must be between 16 and 20 for both pools). I wouldn't say it should be totally random because that could be really rough if the top 4 alliances are put together.
• Play a round-robin series in each pool. An alliance advances after 2 wins and is eliminated after 2 losses, so two of the four alliances will advance. If two alliances begin 2-0, they move on and the pool ends. If one alliance begins 2-0, it moves on, the 0-2 alliance is eliminated, and the two 1-1 alliances face off (possibly for the second time) to determine who advances. If all four begin 1-1, each plays its third match against the alliance it has not yet played.
• This advances four alliances to the SF, where they repeat the procedure.
• The final two alliances play a best-of-3 series

I like the aspect of Recycle Rush's playoffs that each alliance gets to play more than one opponent, but taking the average of just 2 matches in the QF is very fluky. I don't like using averages in eliminations much at all, so I would go back to wins and losses.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

A few thoughts (didn't read the thread):

1) Nuking the step would be bold, but IRI could pull it off. The entire landfill zone is fair game, no crossing the white line on the other side, crank out a little dummy platform for the recycling containers to sit on so we don't have to re-re-re-enginner them.
2) During qualification rounds (and only qualification rounds), step containers get a loop of red or blue tape on them. Make it the ones on the drivers' right. During the autonomous period, robots can only go after their alliance's containers. Come teleop, all step containers are fair game. (And come playoffs? Man the harpoons!)
3) I'm really okay with this year's format for playoffs. If you must do W/L before finals, I'd suggest double-elimination so there's at least a little mystery to the autonomous period.
4) Yellow totes score the same as gray totes on the platform. Goodness knows teams will need them all.
5) Alliances may request one or both lines of the face-down totes be flipped right-side up before the reset signal is given from the last match, but drive teams have to help during the setup time. (This affects the landfill packing which may affect some canburglars, so it's an option play.)

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

There's a really good idea right there. I like it.
+1 to this.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

Sorry if this has already been said, but here goes:

Remove the step. In the last minute, allow robots to cross the center. Any stacks you knock over gain your team half the points that that stack was worth (rounded up), but any stacks completed during that time are worth double. Stacks completed before this time will count as permanently scored, but stacks built during this time and then knocked over will not count. Stolen full stacks scored for the alliance that took them will receive the doubled point value for the team doing the stealing. Recycling containers stolen from the top of still standing stacks would have a point value assigned to each steal, and even more bonus points assigned to whichever stack they are placed on top of. Basically, a 1-minute race to steal as many resources as you can from the other team. Balancing defense, offense, precision, and time management.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

This is an interesting thought, but I prefer Zondag's suggestions to make more cans and totes available. If the game piece limits go away, then the incentive is to get the 3rd robot on the alliance to be as productive as possible, which I find to be more exciting. Let's see 10 stacks on each side of the field.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

Make can races an autonomous bonus. Whichever alliance gets the most cans ends up with a 20 pt bonus (or something...or just X points per can).

Then balance out however many cans by giving them to the HP station (ie. Red alliance steals 3 cans, blue steals 1, Blue gets two cans in the HP station, Red gets none), extend the HP area to an area similar to last year allowing them to place cans onto the field.

Only issue is this assumes a can race where all four cans are taken happens in every match/what to do about contested cans that are still being fought over in teleop.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

Add an end game:

Yellow totes that do not start on the field may only be introduced through the chute in the last 20 seconds of the match.

At the end of the match, a stack containing one or more of these end-game yellow totes scores double (ie. one six-high stack with RC and noodle where one tote is an end-game yellow scores 2 x 42 = 84 points). If multiple stacks contain an end-game yellow tote then only the stack worth the most amount of points is doubled in value.

Perhaps the same applies for the co-op stack during qual's - would love to see teams screaming through forests of stacks in a race to co-op before the buzzer sounds.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

*I posted this in the IRI poll thread also.

The BEST idea I heard all season is from Dennis Jenks of 254.
Keep the game exactly the same, EXCEPT make the step cans available the last 30 seconds of the match only.
Think about that for awhile........

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

It'd be interesting to see which teams could line themselves up the fastest to prepare for that. Although you may also see teams line up prior to the match and wait there until the last 30 seconds are approaching (but that would limit other alliance member's accessibility to the landfill totes).

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

LOL! I sense a new battle cry coming on...

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

With that rule, competitive alliances would need to create some uncapped tote stacks and then cap them in the end game. Most robots can't do that, because with the real rules it isn't necessary to cap existing stacks. This change would significantly hose a lot of teams.

Also, referees would have to judge whether teams jumped the gun on the can race. I find that less desirable than letting the FCS ensure that the teams all start the race at the same time.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

I certainly wish this was part of the original rules, but this change wouldn't affect all strategies the same so I doubt it would be an IRI change.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

Me too! This would have been so much better. An end game sort of.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

Maybe I have not thought long enough. So far all I come up with is, pity the Head Referee who has to decide whether that robot won the race, or jumped the gun. Could be really tough to call when opposing robots try for the same can, possibly using different techniques; e.g., side claw vs. top hook. Harpoons fired from crossbows would be especially challenging.:rolleyes:

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

Sounds like reffing minibots all over again. No thank you!

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

Litter can only be scored in recycling containers. If litters is thrown to the other side a foul is incurred. IMO litter throwing only takes away from the functioning of the robots and causes problems that really shouldn't be there.

Also add a third Quarterfinal match in playoffs for a total of 12 Quarterfinal matches.

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

This thread is starting to get long.

Maybe I should start reading ...

Re: IRI - 2015 Rule Modification Ideas?
 

Perhaps an end game should be added (which is missing this year and was a prominent feature in past games such as Rebound Rumble and Logomotion) where you have a colored tote that has to be placed on top of a non-capped stack. However, instead of tripling the score of a stack like a recycling bin, it's a 20 point bonus and it can not be touched until the last 20 seconds.

EDIT: I agree with the ideas of no noodle throwing until the last 30 seconds (I can't express how many times our robot was made immobilized from this) and flipping the totes that are next to the step to make them usable.