Chief Delphi - USB ports going away during match

Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)

- General Forum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

- - USB ports going away during match (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136418)

Re: USB ports going away during match

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanperryg (Post 1466734)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe 2451 may have been having a similar problem at Midwest, that caused them to withdraw from alliance selections.

I believe they were having issues with their roboRIO and software on the robot itself. I don't think it was a driver station issue.

Re: USB ports going away during match

Quote:

Originally Posted by popnbrown (Post 1466840)

I believe they were having issues with their roboRIO and software on the robot itself. I don't think it was a driver station issue.

It was some kind of RoboRio related issue. I don't believe it had to do directly with their driver station.

Re: USB ports going away during match

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrForbes (Post 1466717)

We can look at power settings, but I'm a bit confused why something like that would make the USB port come and go several times during a match, while the control is being used continuously? Although I do understand that Windows works in strange and mysterious ways.

Some laptops also have "sleep and charge" ports, which stay powered even when the computer sleeps (and I've seen some teams' DS laptops go to sleep during a match). One joystick being plugged into one of these ports and the other not could cause this when one controller stays powered when the computer sleeps.

Again, a closer examination of the laptop's power settings should help.

Re: USB ports going away during match

Thanks again for all the info!

We looked at the laptop, and it has a few issues that are probably causing the problem. The advanced power management setting was set to allow it to turn off the USB hub. There also might be a driver issue, we will work on reinstalling the drivers. And we never got around to making a console to put the laptop, controllers, and charger on, so it was just too inconvenient to carry everything....hence no charger on the field....lesson learned! In past years, we've had the charger with the laptop, it's just something that got overlooked this time.

I think we'll get it straightened out for Champs. And definitely by AIA.

Re: USB ports going away during match

USB connectors (and all others) are rated for a finite number of insertion cycles. In FIRST we tend to connect/disconnect more often that a normal user. If your laptops are 3 years old the connectors might be getting intermittent? If it has not happened yet, it will at some point.

Re: USB ports going away during match

Whatever you do, don't try to read the USB specification for help. The latest one has 534 pages just for power!

Re: USB ports going away during match

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrForbes (Post 1466754)

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone!

We have several things to check. We have not been plugging in the DS laptop charger during matches, it's been running on battery all the time.

I don't have the laptop here, hopefully it made it home on the bus Saturday night, and I can check it in an hour or so when I drop off the robot at school.

Hi Jim,
Here is something that most likely was not the cause of the issues you were experiencing, but definitely should be considered when you are taking steps to make your DS 's performance stable and reliable.
As an FTAA twice this year, I saw several teams have issues if they had not "Locked" the location of their controllers in the DS software. When not locked, the controllers can show up in different order and locations in the DS. When your controls "go away" it is likely they will not return to where you want them if they are not locked. A locked device will always show up in the same position, regardless of which USB port it is plugged into, nor what order the device(s) are detected, as long as you are not using two identical devices.

Here are the details of the locking process from this document.

Quote:

Re-Arranging and Locking Devices
The 2015 Driver Station has the capability of "locking" a USB device into a specific slot. This is done automatically if the device is dragged to a new position and can also be triggered by double clicking on the device. "Locked" devices will show up with an underline under the device. A locked device will reserve it's slot even when the device is not connected to the computer (shown as grayed out and underlined). Devices can be unlocked (and unconnected devices removed) by double clicking on the entry.

Note: If you have two or more of the same device, they should maintain their position as long as all devices remain plugged into the computer in the same ports they were locked in. If you switch the ports of two identical devices the lock should follow the port, not the device. If you re-arrange the ports (take one device and plug it into a new port instead of swapping) the behavior is not determinate (the devices may swap slots). If you unplug one or more of the set of devices, the positions of the others may move, they should return to the proper locked slots when all devices are reconnected.

Example: The image above (see attachment) shows 4 devices:

A Locked "Logitech Attack 3" joystick. This device will stay in this position unless dragged somewhere else or unlocked
An unlocked "Logitech Extreme 3D" joystick
An unlocked "Gamepad F310 (Controller)" which is a Logitech F310 gamepad
A Locked, but disconnected "MadCatz GamePad (Controller)" which is a MadCatz Xbox 360 Controller
In this example, unplugging the Logitech Extreme 3D joystick will result in the F310 Gamepad moving up to slot 1. Plugging in the MadCatz Gamepad (even if the devices in Slots 1 and 2 are removed and those slots are empty) will result in it occupying Slot 3.

Re: USB ports going away during match

Thanks, I think the devices were locked, because when the controller dropped out, it was still shown in the #1 slot in gray.

Re: USB ports going away during match

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrForbes (Post 1467165)

Thanks, I think the devices were locked, because when the controller dropped out, it was still shown in the #1 slot in gray.

Excellent!
That confirms two things at least.
1) It was locked.
2) Winders no longer saw the device.

Now, what the root cause of it going away is still the main focus.
All the advice here should get you to a solid answer. From the timing of when and how the failures occurred, it doesn't sound like a physical problem like a flakey connection or wiring. At least not to me

Re: USB ports going away during match

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanperryg (Post 1466734)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe 2451 may have been having a similar problem at Midwest, that caused them to withdraw from alliance selections.

The stimulus of the problem WAS the joysticks (I'm not sure if one failed, or if it just got unplugged moving the drivers station around), but the real problem was a programming issue which caused the application to die immediately upon entering teleop. The thrash to find the problem then introduced other issues which clouded the issue and sent everyone down wrong paths (multiple times).

Kenton Cabiness (Aka. Mr. C)

Re: USB ports going away during match

We found another interesting "feature" :rolleyes: of Windows called "USB Selective Suspend" that allows Windows to power down an individual USB port. We disabled that potential troublemaker. Google it to find out more.