Chief Delphi - Future First Championship News

Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)

- General Forum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

- - Future First Championship News (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136491)

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrRoboSteve (Post 1468312)

I think this is exactly the right time to be announcing this. They want it out there prior to Champs so that they can get feedback and talk to the rationale behind the change. If they were really trying to hide the ball, this would come out at 8am on April 26, or they'd announce it at Kickoff.

Exactly, this will allow for FIRST to come up with responses to our questions and concerns. They will hopefully be able to address them two weeks from now during the FIRST Opening and Closing Ceremonies.

What are our constructive criticisms? How would we fix the system by 2017?

Re: Future First Championship News

Spokane to Houston: 2,118 miles
Spokane to Detroit: 2,071 miles

Spokane to St. Louis: 1,805 miles

I thought i heard something about cost saving?

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlmcmchl (Post 1468305)

The post specifically said that they would be expanding champs to be over 100% larger than 2014 by 2017.

So, for the previous version of champs to exist, they would at minimum be required to being 200 teams from each super regional, at most 50% of each. Assuming 4 divisions, that would leave you with 96 teams in eliminations with 3 alliance members each. If you're assuming a champs model with 300 teams, you would need to send 3/8 of each super regional, 150 teams. 35% of those teams would have never seen eliminations. In Michigan this year, for every three teams in playoffs, there will be one more team sent to worlds (Note: Not all teams in playoffs make it to worlds, but most do).

It's also a large increase in cost; that's an additional 2 rather expensive venues to add to the bill in reservation, years before using them.

But why have worlds that big? Why not just start the super regional system small with ~200 teams per super regional, and then have like 30 per super regional make worlds. Money is already an issue, no need to make the worlds large just to be large.

Re: Future First Championship News

I not happy to see this change. For FRC it doesn't make sense, you take the C out of FRC.

Re: Future First Championship News

They can salvage the competitive integrity if they find a way to have the two winning alliances play each other.

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by indubitably (Post 1468321)

They can salvage the competitive integrity if they find a way to have the two winning alliances play each other.

You could play this year's game over Skype if you find a way to emulate the can race.

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by indubitably (Post 1468321)

They can salvage the competitive integrity if they find a way to have the two winning alliances play each other.

More costs, more student time used, more mentor time used.

Re: Future First Championship News

VEX has had a working championship system for years. With multiple tiers of play, and more teams across the globe, they found a way to organize a competition where everyone feels they got a fair chance, they inspire more people, and they don't sacrifice the competitive aspect.

Is it a grudge, or pride that keeps FIRST from emulating this system?

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madison (Post 1468297)

For the sake of informing the discussion, the circles on this map represent a 750 mile radius drawn from each of the three cities. It's pretty clear that these areas encompass a majority of current FRC teams.

I chose 750 miles because that's the furthest I've ever driven without wanting to die. It's about a 12 hour drive.

Those circles are just plain wrong. The 750 mile radius doesn't extend past the midland region of south Carolina. You have them extending beyond the coast. There are teams in Georgia and South Carolina that won't be in those circles either.

Can someone find a sport in the world that has multiple world championships? First likes to call themselves the sport for the mind. Looks like they've got an identity crisis they need to solve.

Re: Future First Championship News

Note this post is reflected on my thoughts and not my teams:
I joined 842 when we had already won the biggest award in FRC. I thought we were one of the greatest competitors in the world knowing this but come competition season, I soon realized that it wasn't the same case for our robots. Yes we work very hard to help our community and grow STEM but I guess I never really liked the fact that our robots were pretty under performing in comparison to the best in the world. Seeing awesome teams like 469 and 25 inspired me do everything I can to help make our robots more competitive. After all, 25 comes from a similar type of school as us and 469 I don't know the details of but their robot mechanisms seemed like something anyone could design and build if they really wanted to. So I started learning cad and studying the best teams from all around the world. I poured countless hours into these different designs and strategies, all for the hope that our team can finally make it to Einstein field and compete on it. It wasn't just me that seemed to have this drive either. Our entire team seemed to be more heavily geared at not just making robots that work or would hold their own, but to make robots that could score effectively. Mechanisms designed to try and be the best in the world. We are still quite a ways away but it's still the driving factor to be the best in the world. Splitting the world championships in half would be devastating to my morale at least because it makes the goal unachievable. A team is not "world" champions if they only competed with half of the teams in world. Like others have said, you might as well call every event a world championship if that's the case. I don't see why degrading what I believe is one of the best events in the world just to give every team half the championship experience is a good thing. I really hope this change is revoked because it would seriously lessen my intent to stay in FIRST. They are not the only robotics competition around that's intended to inspire kids. But I'd like them to be the best nevertheless.

Re: Future First Championship News

BEGIN PEDANTIC NOTE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mackenzie W (Post 1468157)

... other than that this means IFI and similar offseason events will be determining actual world champions now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 1468246)

If we go with a sports metaphor, this announcement is more like AFC/NFC Champs, and IFI is the Super Bowl.

Just to clarify: IFI is a company that is a FIRST sponsor. IRI is an offseason competition in Indiana. The r and f are close on the keyboard and the acronyms are very similar but they are very different things.

END PEDANTIC NOTE

fully aware most arent reading, just posting

Re: Future First Championship News

I'm just surprised that they couldnt put FLL & FTC at one event, FRC at the other.

I'd also like to see a "super finals" where the winners of the two Championships face off to crown the true world champ.

seeing my question addressed and having that second thing happen would make me OK with this

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehochstein (Post 1468315)

What are our constructive criticisms? How would we fix the system by 2017?

Every region gets districts... place some flex regionals in low population areas If needed. Progress teams to Champs from district championships. Low level teams get the "champ experience" at the district champs. High level teams still get to compete for a world title. Everyone wins.

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wetzel (Post 1468294)

I've minimal interest in becoming a world champion in St Louis, or where ever FIRST moves. I'm motivated by my DC Public School students going to college, and even more proud when they get accepted to MIT and Caltech. I'm delighted to meet alumni who graduated 10 years ago return to visit with a PhD and a check to support the current youth. I'm energized by a team that gels at a competition and gets excited when the robot they built in their classroom does what they built it to do. I'm encouraged that a team with 5 students, 2 whom had never used a screwdriver before, not only graduated from a high school where fewer than 50% graduate in four years, but 4 of them graduated from college in four years. I'm impressed when a shy student can come out of their shell and impress the school chancellor with their passion.

Yeah having a unified World Champion would be great, but it's not about the robot.

Kudos!

It's about so much more than the robot.