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Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)
-   General Forum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Future First Championship News (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136491)

jman4747 09-04-2015 17:47
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Nishimura (Post 1468709)
Would people really see a "Division II tournament" as Loser's Championship? There's no respect for being among the top ~25% best teams in the world?

I would think having a greater opportunity to be a big influence and win is motivating enough, let alone being able to meet and play with a lot of new robots for the first time. And since when were only the top 10% the only inspiring teams?

Honestly, in terms of competition achievement, I'd take a deep run in to play-offs of any championship over qualifications, regardless of the tournament. I think either would be inspiring and fuel for the following years.

For reference, in my head I'm ranking teams based on a district-like points basis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by efoote868 (Post 1468706)
Not sure if post was unclear, but meant the 2nd and 3rd picks as in 17th-32nd picks of the serpentine drafts - you know, the teams that "ride the coat-tails" of the 1st and 2nd seed.


There would still be a competition, and while in this scenario the winning alliance in the non-premier event wouldn't be able to claim to be the World Champions, winning an event that big would still be an impressive feat.
This: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=95

Pick order is not everything. Go look up 2014 Peachtree elims.

Tom Line 09-04-2015 17:47
Re: Future First Championship News
 
I wonder if first would be amenable to helping the winning team from one event travel to the other each year to crown a true world champ.

cgmv123 09-04-2015 17:48
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line (Post 1468720)
I wonder if first would be amenable to helping the winning team from one event travel to the other each year to crown a true world champ.
No amount of financial support will help if students and mentors can't get time off from school/work to attend on 2~3 days notice.

Tom Line 09-04-2015 17:51
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgmv123 (Post 1468722)
No amount of financial support will help if students and mentors can't get time off from school/work to attend on 2~3 days notice.
True. Time does pose a problem. But we'd be talking about flying in Friday night, getting first boys running and competing Saturday, then flying home. I bet most could free up a weekend.

Botsup 09-04-2015 17:52
Re: Future First Championship News
 
I did speak with team support, to someone who said they had worked there for a few years (not a volunteer). It was not that they did not know specific teams, it was that they had no idea when I was referring to their numbers that I was talking about teams. That is a giant disconnect.

pwnageNick 09-04-2015 17:56
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botsup
True. Time does pose a problem. But we'd be talking about flying in Friday night, getting first boys running and competing Saturday, then flying home. I bet most could free up a weekend.
...After some already took off 2, 3, 4 weekends for the competitions leading up to that. Also most bosses wouldn't be ecstatic about someone coming in on monday and saying they would need to be off again on Thursday or Friday to go to another World Championship. Even if you told them ahead of time it may be a possibility, you're just adding on another week that you would have to be off.

Also factor in that teams who pla at the second event have a strategic advantage of knowing who they would inevitably play in the finals if they made it that far.

George Nishimura 09-04-2015 17:57
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman4747 (Post 1468719)
This: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=95

Seed is not everything. Go look up 2014 Peachtree elims.
I don't know if this was in response to my comment, but District points are not based purely on seed.

Also, I don't want to give the impression that the idea of tiering Championship (to Div I and Div II) is a fully-fleshed out idea, I just wanted to contest the argument that it would be harmful culturally, disrespected, and not inspiring.

Edxu 09-04-2015 18:02
Re: Future First Championship News
 
In my Grade 9 (Freshman) year, I attended the World Championships in 2013 as a kid who really didn’t know what he was getting into, who wasn’t really interested in engineering or computers outside of video games. When I got there, I then understood the sheer size of the FIRST Program, and how many people it’s reached.
During my time off from scouting, I walked around team’s pits, trying to visit the teams from places that I’ve never been to (shoutout to 27, 111, 118) . I’ve traveled around the States before as a tourist, but I never once imagined that in almost every place that I’ve been to, there are a ton of FIRST teams that I never saw. That really opened my eyes to how FIRST has spread. I visited the sponsor area, where I saw rows upon rows of opportunities and awesome exhibitions, all using the same skills and thought process applied in FIRST.
Two years later, my passion for FIRST has led me to love being at competition and talking to teams, and fortunately, my job at competitions lets me do just that. I love talking and learning about the robots and teams that have come from far away.
From experience, I’ve learned that the teams from the South approach the game in a much different way than we in the North do, and I think that if Championships was split into two region-locked areas, I wouldn’t get that same experience of learning their way of thinking, as well as losing the experience of sharing our method of approach.

And from a purely selfish standpoint, the Californian robots are all really cool and I'd be losing the chance to see them in real life.

madhav 09-04-2015 18:03
Re: Future First Championship News
 
From FIRST on Facebook:

Quote:

We are excited about the prospect of two Championship events, but understand it comes with its share of challenges and concerns from our Community. We value your feedback, and it will be helpful to us as we delve into the planning process in the coming months and years. Stay tuned for updates, and please continue to share your constructive thoughts with us as we move forward. Thank you!

Kevin Sevcik 09-04-2015 18:05
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSchneider (Post 1468716)
Not a "Losers championship" but definitely in a different league. And there's nothing wrong with that. Gives more team the experience without sacrificing compete time teams experience.
I understand that your whole point is to segregate all the ultra-competitive teams into one of the Champs. While this theoretically solves the problem of defining the "true" world champ, it seems to exacerbate most other problems people have. Namely, it cuts off half of the champs population from ALL the elite teams while maintaining all the logistical issues of two Champs. And since you've decided the premier event is the one that really counts for world champs, how is everyone at the other event supposed to feel?

I mean honestly. If you absolutely have to crown the best team of the year for some reason, let's just all agree that IRI is the definitive world championship. I'm pretty sure most people think that already anyways.

dodar 09-04-2015 18:07
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik (Post 1468730)
I understand that your whole point is to segregate all the ultra-competitive teams into one of the Champs. While this theoretically solves the problem of defining the "true" world champ, it seems to exacerbate most other problems people have. Namely, it cuts off half of the champs population from ALL the elite teams while maintaining all the logistical issues of two Champs. And since you've decided the premier event is the one that really counts for world champs, how is everyone at the other event supposed to feel?

I mean honestly. If you absolutely have to crown the best team of the year for some reason, let's just all agree that IRI is the definitive world championship. I'm pretty sure most people think that already anyways.
Thats like saying the pro-bowl decides which NFL division is the best. No, the World Championship/Superbowl does.

efoote868 09-04-2015 18:09
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik (Post 1468730)
Namely, it cuts off half of the champs population from ALL the elite teams while maintaining all the logistical issues of two Champs. And since you've decided the premier event is the one that really counts for world champs, how is everyone at the other event supposed to feel?
Excited that they get to compete in another FIRST sponsored event, that they would not have been able to otherwise due to limited space at the championship event.

jman4747 09-04-2015 18:10
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Nishimura (Post 1468727)
I don't know if this was in response to my comment, but District points are not based purely on seed.

Also, I don't want to give the impression that the idea of tiering Championship (to Div I and Div II) is a fully-fleshed out idea, I just wanted to contest the argument that it would be harmful culturally, disrespected, and not inspiring.
I just want to point out that in a scenario where champs tickets depended on what order you were added to your alliance you could send perfectly good teams who may be better all around than those who picked them to the wrong place.

I realize I said seed instead of pick order. Basically the alliance captain may not be more "high level" than the first or second pick and ranking on that metric is somewhat unreliable.

Theloudbatista 09-04-2015 18:10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodar (Post 1468731)
Thats like saying the pro-bowl decides which NFL division is the best. No, the World Championship/Superbowl does.
Thank you I have been looking for a way to explain this. I have been saying that it's like having the world cup stop with the top four teams and just calling them all winners

Louis_ 09-04-2015 18:11
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 216Robochick288 (Post 1468718)
First, welcome to the insanity, Im sad that this is where your first post is. Go check out the thread for quotes or the "addicted to FIRST" one :P




Dont give up on FIRST. Its a good program, and its heart is in the right place, even if they are going about it in a way that upsets people. The program overall and the people in it wont change based on a change to Worlds. Its an evolving program, and the first of its kind and of this scale. There are things that need to be figured out, and this is on the list of things.

It's not my first rodeo in a forums, but I can assure you this is one of the more strange forums I've gone to. Anyway, yeah I'm not giving up on the program, I'm more upset. Not to mention I have to decide between a job and robotics. While I want to do robotics a lot more, there's also a lot of issues in my team. It's a really tough position, I want to stick it out but it's tough.

Thanks for the support though! :D


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