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Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)
-   General Forum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Future First Championship News (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136491)

faust1706 09-04-2015 19:08
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Russell (Post 1468740)
This is quite literally how the Europa League works in European soccer. Finish in one of the top 4 spots in your division? You go to the Champions League (top level cup competition). The next two spots? Europa League. Both competitions are taken fairly seriously, and at the end there is a match between the champions of the two (The European Super Cup).

Not saying that it is necessarily the right thing to do for FRC, but there is precedent.
The champions league is the biggest thing to win right under the Euro and the World cup itself.

Qualifications are a bit more strict than that for the champions league as well. 3 teams from spain, 3 from germany, 3 from england, 2 from italy, 2 from france, 2 from portugual, and 1 from various other countries.

I think the best route would be to have one championship be for regional winners, and the other for chairmans, EI, rookie, etc.

MrRoboSteve 09-04-2015 19:09
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Another positive:

Access to a larger pool of event volunteers

dodar 09-04-2015 19:11
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by efoote868 (Post 1468760)
Off season events by definition are not official FIRST events; which means there is no chance at an official award and that teams do not approach them in the same way. Even at the most highly esteemed IRI, quite a few teams will not compete with their regular season drive team (even if they haven't graduated, they like to identify potential new drivers), which means that as good as that event is, it is not as competitive as it could be.
Oh so you think teams are playing just for the stuff that says FIRST on them. Then you sir, have missed the boat entirely.

Chief Hedgehog 09-04-2015 19:12
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Detroit. In April. Awesome.

Do you think we could bring along our local Sheriff's Department as escorts from our hotel to the events?

ehochstein 09-04-2015 19:20
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog (Post 1468768)
Detroit. In April. Awesome.

d local Shermy do you think we could bring along our local Sheriff's Department as escorts from our hotel to the events?
As Carolyn mentioned earlier in the thread;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace (Post 1468436)
While I'd rather it be another location ;) instead of putting out scare statistics, I'd like to publicly ask the FIRST Detroiters what they think of this development? What does Detroit have to offer teams from around the world and out of state? I'm sure they have a unique perspective.
Before we make any assumptions, I would like to hear from a Detroit resident as well. Most of the Michigan FIRSTers are currently at MSC, I'm sure, so it may be a day or two.

orangelight 09-04-2015 19:21
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog (Post 1468768)
Detroit. In April. Awesome.

d local Shermy do you think we could bring along our local Sheriff's Department as escorts from our hotel to the events?
It's not that bad.

efoote868 09-04-2015 19:21
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodar (Post 1468767)
Oh so you think teams are playing just for the stuff that says FIRST on them. Then you sir, have missed the boat entirely.
In 2005, I drove my team's robot at IRI for one match. It was an amazing experience, I'm glad it happened but it was not in the best interest of my team for that competition. I was terrible, we lost the match. It was an opportunity that my team could NOT afford to give me at a regional or a championship event because the stakes are much higher and the cost per match that much more.

If everyone on my team that wanted a turn was allowed one, I can only imagine there are other teams that do similarly at off season events.

I don't think my team missed the boat entirely that year, I think they got it right.

dodar 09-04-2015 19:29
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by efoote868 (Post 1468772)
In 2005, I drove my team's robot at IRI for one match. It was an amazing experience, I'm glad it happened but it was not in the best interest of my team for that competition. I was terrible, we lost the match. It was an opportunity that my team could NOT afford to give me at a regional or a championship event because the stakes are much higher and the cost per match that much more.

If everyone on my team that wanted a turn was allowed one, I can only imagine there are other teams that do similarly at off season events.

I don't think my team missed the boat entirely that year, I think they got it right.
No you misunderstood my post. You think that just calling a 2nd event a "FIRST Championship" will make teams want to win it more; I believe it will not. Teams fight tooth and nail to win the current World Championship, not because it's FIRST's, but because of the prestige it holds amongst the community.

popnbrown 09-04-2015 19:30
Re: Future First Championship News
 
It sounds like a big grievance is the fact that the competitive nature of FRC is removed.

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I was never initially attracted to FRC because of its competitive nature, nor do I try to attract students to my FIRST team because of its competitive nature.

My team has arguably a terrible robot this year, by competition standards. This however has no bearing on whether my team was a success or not, and while it does have some bearing in certain students' minds, I choose to actively not let it.

The reason I am attracted to FIRST is because of the ideal that inspiration can be attained without winning. The reason I am attracted to FIRST is not that they want to become a sport, but that they want to add an addendum to the meaning of sport.

I realize not everyone feels this way, and yes it potentially will isolate some people. But I implore everyone to truly consider what the core underlying value of this program is.

I ultimately side with some of the folks here that feel that we all need to finish venting and re-group in a few weeks. If you choose to leave FIRST or not, remember that we are ultimately here trying to inspire students from all different backgrounds that not only STEM is a great opportunity, but that a little inspiration (in whatever form) can go a long way.


I want to say some of us on our team are absolute "Chezy" fanboys and forever will want to strive to be at their level whether we play with them, see them, or not

efoote868 09-04-2015 19:34
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodar (Post 1468774)
No you misunderstood my post. You think that just calling a 2nd event a "FIRST Championship" will make teams want to win it more; I believe it will not. Teams fight tooth and nail to win the current World Championship, not because it's FIRST's, but because of the prestige it holds amongst the community.
I think the size of the event will make it prestigious even if the top 10% of the teams are not there; I don't see anyone able to organize a 400+ team event in the off-season.

dodar 09-04-2015 19:35
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by efoote868 (Post 1468778)
I think the size of the event will make it prestigious even if the top 10% of the teams are not there; I don't see anyone able to organize a 400+ team event in the off-season.
....no, thats not how it works.

mman1506 09-04-2015 19:39
Re: Future First Championship News
 
I think it's concerning that FIRST would release Recycle Rush, probably the least accessible game for low/middle tier teams in the last couple of years and then talk about how inclusive they are.

T^2 09-04-2015 19:42
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnbrown (Post 1468775)
My team has arguably a terrible robot this year, by competition standards. This however has no bearing on whether my team was a success or not, and while it does have some bearing in certain students' minds, I choose to actively not let it.[/size]
Your students care about achieving victory, but since you don't care, you conclude that it doesn't matter for your team? Is the program for you, or for your students?



Most people who say "winning doesn't matter" have not won enough to have a balanced opinion on the issue.

Mr V 09-04-2015 19:46
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Personally I don't think that the District > DCMP > Super Regional > CMP is a sustainable proposition. CMP would become a competition of the "rich and retired". Yes district events reduce the cost for some teams while greatly increasing it for others. Depending on where you live in relation to the district events or previous regionals and whether they are Fri-Sat or Sat-Sun events it means that your time away from work or school can stay the same or possibly go up. Traveling to DCMP can cost similar to going to a second Regional but less than half of the teams currently do so.

I think the longer term solution is a District > Regional CMP > World CMP path. My proposal would be that we still define and run the individual districts as they do now however instead of advancing the top team to a DCMP they advance to the RCMP and from there teams advance to WCMP. The cost to the teams that advance to the RCMP can go up or down vs the DCMP depending on where they live of course but overall it is more sustainable economically and from a volunteer and time away aspect. More teams get to experience a Championship event and there is still one WCMP event.

Because I do agree that experiencing a CMP type event is very beneficial I'd propose that in each district there are a number of reserved lottery spots to move on to the RCMP. If you advance on merit you aren't eligible for a lottery spot for say 3-4 years and if you advance on that lottery slot again you aren't eligible for another in say another 3-4 years. I'd propose that a RCMP would include the FLL and FTC programs like CMP currently does and have say 200 FRC teams at each of the 3-5 RCMPs. You would get more teams to a CMP experience and they wouldn't only be the ones that could afford the entry fees, travel costs and time off on a regular basis like I fear that a D > DCMP > SR > CMP system would. I'm not sure where I stand on giving lottery slots away at the RCMP to go to CMP.

MrRoboSteve 09-04-2015 19:47
Re: Future First Championship News
 
This thread on city-data (yes, they refer to themselves on the board as CD) discusses perceptions around safety in Detroit, with input from those who live there: http://www.city-data.com/forum/detro...-safety-5.html

This site contains a pretty exhaustive list of things to do in Detroit: http://www.visitdetroit.com/things-to-do-in-detroit


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