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-   -   Future First Championship News (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136491)

efoote868 10-04-2015 11:26
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltman (Post 1469095)
FIRST has an obligation as a non-profit to make sensible moves that benefit its customers
That is exactly why they are doing this. To benefit more teams in FRC, not a select few.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltman (Post 1469095)
and weaken the competition level.
Is a regional win today worth less today because there are more regional competitions and more teams winning them? Is a district win today worth less because there are more districts?

Is a championship win 10 years ago worth more or less because a larger percentage of teams qualified? Can you even tell me who won the championship event 10 years ago?

Boltman 10-04-2015 11:28
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by efoote868 (Post 1469098)
That is exactly why they are doing this. To benefit more teams in FRC, not a select few.


Is a regional win today worth less today because there are more regional competitions and more teams winning them? Is a district win today worth less because there are more districts?

Is a championship win 10 years ago worth more or less because a larger percentage of teams qualified? Can you even tell me who won the championship event 10 years ago?
In 2017 where do you go to see the top teams under one arena?

That IS the experience, not a series of bowl like competitions. This is to showcase what students did... worldwide and see the best go head to head. That is inspiring for students and prevents the step-child feeling of one of the "championships"...we already have that, I realize Michigan is better than San Diego (and teams can choose to travel to take a hard or easy road) but at CMP its a fairly even playing field of 600 and the real cream rises regardless of region or country. With North/South that cream rising will never occur and there will not be one event to showcase the best teams..a divided and unequal FIRST.

efoote868 10-04-2015 11:29
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltman (Post 1469101)
In 2017 where do you go to see the top teams under one arena?
Other than FIRST's founding year, when have you ever seen all the top teams in one arena?

BrennanB 10-04-2015 11:31
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman4747 (Post 1469091)
Okay well excuse me for getting a wait list spot and diluting the competition with my crappy lite robot you selfish...
If you read what I wrote, that's not at all what my problem was with two championships...

Quote:
Originally Posted by efoote868 (Post 1469102)
Other than FIRST's founding year, when have you ever seen all the top teams in one arena?
*Most (Championships 2014)

jman4747 10-04-2015 11:31
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltman (Post 1469095)
Its not about you or your team and the numerous wait-list spots with the 50% expanded field of 2015 (FIRST created that) ... its about sensible growth and geographical "fairness" that reflects the world and FIRST'S mission statement.

North/South was settled 150 years ago. FIRST has an obligation as a non-profit to make sensible moves that benefit its customers, not just grab more entry fees, bolster Andy Mark and hotel chains and weaken the competition level.

Thats in essence the root of the questioning going on here.. it does not add up to any good future move.
So now we think FIRST is a big corrupt organization that doesn't care about us and is being driven by a small business and the hotel industries of Detroit, St. Louis, and, Huston? And we think NI, Lockheed, Qualcomm, Raytheon, NASA, DARPA, Novelis, Honeywell, etc etc etc would all still be supporting it given that?

And if it's not about the wait list and other non-regional winning teams who is "weaken the competition level" referring to?

Look at the distribution of teams and available location and it pretty much has to be north/south. FRC is more NE/SE heavy if you split it east west you'll more likely end up unbalanced in numbers or distance.

Gregor 10-04-2015 11:33
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by efoote868 (Post 1469098)
Is a regional win today worth less today because there are more regional competitions and more teams winning them? Is a district win today worth less because there are more districts?
?
Yes

Boltman 10-04-2015 11:38
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman4747 (Post 1469105)
So now we think FIRST is a big corrupt organization that doesn't care about us and is being driven by a small business and the hotel industries of Detroit, St. Louis, and, Huston? And we think NI, Lockheed, Qualcomm, Raytheon, NASA, DARPA, Novelis, Honeywell, etc etc etc would all still be supporting it given that?

And if it's not about the wait list and other non-regional winning teams who is "weaken the competition level" referring to?

Look at the distribution of teams and available location and it pretty much has to be north/south. FRC is more NE/SE heavy if you split it east west you'll more likely end up unbalanced in numbers or distance.
Not corrupt, but misguided to their mission statement...over expansion too quickly, is never a good thing. That should be common sense. They just expanded by 50% now they want 100%...why?

Those sponsors could pull funding or divert... nothing is guaranteed at all. There are other options.

Championships should be hard to attend..that inspires. Otherwise we end up with mobile KOP platform bots in champs, and what does that teach and/or what message does that send to the next generation? You can skate in life?

jman4747 10-04-2015 11:40
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor (Post 1469106)
Yes
How? So having more competitors makes it easier? How does having a new regional event in another state make winning the one in your state less of an achievement? How does having more teams play two regionals make the competition easier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltman (Post 1469109)
Not corrupt, but misguided to their mission statement...over expansion too quickly, is not a good thing. That should be common sense. They just expanded by 50% now they want 100%...why?

Those sponsors could pull funding or divert... nothing is guaranteed.
Why is being prepared for more growth misguided?

gblake 10-04-2015 11:44
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbuns (Post 1469022)
As long as they end up doing some sort of North vs South match with the champions from each, ...
I'll take a wild guess that the six champions (plus alternates) will all have a good shot at receiving invitations to IFI. No guarantees, but a good chance.

Teams don't have wait, like baby birds with their mouths open, for FIRST to tell them what to do; teams can just do it.

Blake

Boltman 10-04-2015 11:47
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman4747 (Post 1469110)
How? So having more competitors makes it easier? How does having a new regional event in another state make winning the one in your state less of an achievement? How does having more teams play two regionals make the competition easier?



Why is being prepared for more growth misguided?
Again, where does one go in 2017 to view (Nearly all) of the very best teams in the world under one arena? Does the entry fee go down for skating in to one of 800-1200 spots?

BrennanB 10-04-2015 11:50
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman4747 (Post 1469110)
Why is being prepared for more growth misguided?
The point here is that Championships isn't the place to deal with this growth. (which by the way isn't even one of the reasons they gave us for expanding champs)

Alan Anderson 10-04-2015 11:51
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltman (Post 1469101)
In 2017 where do you go to see the top teams under one arena?
Indianapolis.

efoote868 10-04-2015 11:57
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrennanB (Post 1469114)
(which by the way isn't even one of the reasons they gave us for expanding champs)
That is the fundamental reason they're expanding champs.

Rick 10-04-2015 11:58
Re: Future First Championship News
 
http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/2017-first-championship-announcement

Quote:
For the Houston Championship, Opening Ceremonies will be held in the Toyota Center, home of the Houston Rockets. Competition matches for all programs will be held in the George R. Brown Convention Center, followed by Closing Ceremonies in Minute Maid Park, home of the Houston Astros, which has a retractable roof.

For the Detroit Championship, Opening and Closing Ceremonies will be held in Ford Field, an enclosed domed stadium, which is home to the Detroit Lions. Competition matches for all programs will be held in Cobo Center...
Remember playing in the pits in 2011? That will be the norm in these new cities. Playing in the pits is not inspiring...

The walking distance between the convention center and dome in Detroit is 18 minutes. So matches in the dome are out of the question. Part of the experience for me is watching teams play in a professional stadium. Nearly every single person involved with FIRST would never step foot on a football field with thousands cheering them on. This is a big let down for me and my team.

Kevin Sevcik 10-04-2015 12:02
Re: Future First Championship News
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siri (Post 1469050)
TechFire, you're already in Districts. District Champs equals a Super Regional in the model discussed on this thread: it doesn't extend our (MAR's) season at all.
Not according to the graphic everyone's been bandying about:

That shows Michigan funneling into a Super Regional. Along with a number of "District Event Candidate" regions. I'm pretty sure the whole idea was very much to funnel DCMPs into SRs into WCMP. Which makes a nice flow chart, but is definitely going to be stressful on the teams involved.

In other news, as a long time attendee of Lone Star and someone moderately familiar with the GRB, I'm not worried about the quality of the event there. GRB has 600,000 sq ft on level 1 alone, with a 35' ceiling height. 2011 pit fields and 400 pits were crammed into 340,000 sq ft. That's not even counting the 220,000 sq ft on the level 3. LSR has to sprawl to take up 100,000 sq ft of that. I'm pretty sure there's going to be enough room for nice fields and pits on level 1.


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