Chief Delphi - Future First Championship News

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Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)

- General Forum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

- - Future First Championship News (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136491)

Eugene Fang

09-04-2015 12:13

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi (Post 1468240)

There is no energy like the energy at World Champs.

But now there is twice the energy! Or half...

Munchskull

09-04-2015 12:13

Re: Future First Championship News

still waiting for April fools.

scooty199

09-04-2015 12:14

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri (Post 1468177)

So....

Inaugural Vex Pro Competition in 2017?!?

I'm down.

dodar

09-04-2015 12:14

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 1468246)

I seriously doubt the people making the argument for some kind of Champs logistical change get on ChiefDelphi at all. I'm talking about TIMS contacts who give the FRC Teams email an earful (eyeful?) about cost/etc. I hear stories directly from local teams trying to solve the problem of getting to champs, and I know for a fact I've never seen their team # on CD. I'm sure they're emailing FIRST directly trying to get info, resources, tips, etc.

As-is FRC Champs is a logistical nightmare. Let's say the DC region went to districts, and district champs were this coming weekend. How are the district champs winners getting to St. Louis? Certainly not flying at $600 per ticket (that doesn't get us there until 3pm...). Everyone's on a bus for 15 hours at that point.

Splitting up Champs is a logical next step for FIRST in general. Personally I think it makes more sense to split up Champs by program rather than geographic location, but that's my FRC-centric 0.02.

If we go with a sports metaphor, this announcement is more like AFC/NFC Champs, and IFI is the Super Bowl. Now if only we could get ESPN covering IFI ( :: ducks and covers :: ). Though I will really miss seeing the West Coast and MI powerhouses at the same event :(. Given that vacation is already scarce, I doubt I could attend both events as a volunteer at one of them and a team at the other.

Actually the NFL metaphor would be like having 2 Superbowls, one for the AFC and one for the NFC and calling both winning teams World Champions.

Wetzel

09-04-2015 12:14

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodar (Post 1468230)

Ive seen all negative, some neutral, but not a single positive post; and thats counting as this is the 88th post.

I intended this as a positive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wetzel (Post 1468133)

2 Woodie Flowers Award winners!

Boltman

09-04-2015 12:15

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalTran (Post 1468238)

FIRST is 80% of why I even have friends around the country and internationally, and now if I want to see them I'd have to set aside 2 weekends plus whatever else I'm mentoring and volunteering for? Good grief.
On top of this, you only become the best of the half of whatever first deems you the best of. I don't like the split, I don't like the doubling down on awards, and I don't like how much of a hassle this will be.

At what point do they announce which championship you get to go to? A lot of teams, mine included, set aside plans in the fall on where we would stay, how much it'll cost, and how we're going to get to the Championships. Now that we potentially have to create 2 separate plans, one possibly costing more, would be such a pain.

At the very least, since one "Championship" is a week ahead of the other, what're the chances they could bring the winning alliance from that one to the one after for a crowning match?

Would not be fair would it?... two different preferred pools what if one even is super easy in comparison...that winning alliance would have been weeded out. Its all about pairings and when you only half half or so of a pool all champions are suspect....even more so than the usual preferred qualification pool seeding to get well know teams an edge.

Just look at top bot alliance qualification partners and you will see this in action...cream rises to top by "random" design. Less known teams always have a harder road in quals due to this qual alliance pairing in action. You don't notice it until you do.

PayneTrain

09-04-2015 12:16

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgmv123 (Post 1468247)

MSC was supposed to be free for teams. FIRST HQ made FiM charge second event fees. If the funding is there, there's no reason FIRST couldn't make that intermediary level free (or at least just a minimal registration fee).

I feel like I also addressed the issue in the post.

One level of competition would have to not have a registration fee, obviously.

MikLast

09-04-2015 12:16

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botwoon (Post 1468248)

lol west coast

Jared Russell

09-04-2015 12:17

Re: Future First Championship News

For 15 years I have been motivating myself and the teams I have been a part of with the goal of becoming the World Champion.

For 15 years I have been motivating myself and the teams I have been a part of with the thought that at the World Championship, we can look at the world's best robots up close, ask those teams any questions we want, and make friends from all across the world.

For 15 years I have been motivating myself and the teams I have been a part of with the idea that on Saturday of the World Championship, we will see the "final act" of that year's game. The immovable object vs. the unstoppable force (60 vs. 71 in 2002). The most dominating robot ever built (1114 in 2008) against the field of challengers. The gamebreaker (469 in 2010) against the brilliant minds who were trying to figure out how to beat it. The ultimate 3-ball autonomous vs. the ultimate goalie robot.

For 15 years I have been motivating myself and the teams I have been a part of with the goal of changing the culture by making FRC into an actual sport...the kind that non-participants will want to watch and follow (though for the first few years I admittedly didn't quite see it the same way I do now). Every year I cringe a little bit at that year's "twist" - FIRST has gotten Co-Opertition wrong more often than it has gotten it right - but there have always been moments where I think "wow, if every match was like that, this would be on ESPN".

I understand that growing FRC creates challenges that will necessitate change, but there are certainly other ways to do this than to shoot ourselves in the foot and eliminate one of the most universal elements of competition: A champion decided by a final title match(es).

It is clear with this decision that FIRST as an organization doesn't have quite the same set of goals that I do.

The ideals that are held by myself and by many of the longtime FRC mentors and volunteers whom I consider friends and colleagues are bigger than FIRST, and we will find (or make) another vehicle for them if we are forced to.

Munchskull

09-04-2015 12:17

Re: Future First Championship News

So it is official, 2015 is the worst year in FIRST.

Also:
1: Will Chief Delphi cater to VEX Pro Challenge teams?
2: When can I sign my team up?
3: Can my team carry our FRC number over?

jlmcmchl

09-04-2015 12:19

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpchem (Post 1468232)

I'd completely forgotten about this! I remember seeing this when it was first released and I loved the concept, even if the regions seemed to be too large in some places.

What happened to this, and has it ever been discussed that this wasn't the plan (until now)?

On the Contrary, this seems to be a step towards Super Regionals; FIRST is introducing the North and South Super Regional as Championships for now. There's just not enough teams that would get a berth from super regionals to justify a championship smaller than both of them.

Once FRC has expanded to justify the addition of the East and West Super Regionals, they will add those, and reinstate a true championship.

Change hurts, and I my own concerns about the system for the time being, but I'm excited for the path they are taking towards a more scalable system.

nuggetsyl

09-04-2015 12:19

Re: Future First Championship News

First is acting like the true monopoly they are. They clearly don't care what we think or this would have been talked about before acting.

MikLast

09-04-2015 12:19

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchskull (Post 1468258)

So it is official, 2015 is the worst year in FIRST.

i wouldn't say that, 2017 looks pretty poor too.

AdamHeard

09-04-2015 12:20

Re: Future First Championship News

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Russell (Post 1468257)

For 15 years I have been motivating myself and the teams I have been a part of with the goal of becoming the World Champion.

For 15 years I have been motivating myself and the teams I have been a part of with the thought that at the World Championship, we can look at the world's best robots up close, ask those teams any questions we want, and make friends from all across the world.

For 15 years I have been motivating myself and the teams I have been a part of with the idea that on Saturday of the World Championship, we will see the "final act" of that year's game. The unstoppable object vs. the immovable force (60 vs. 71 in 2002). The most dominating robot ever built (1114 in 2008) against the field of challengers. The gamebreaker (469 in 2010) against the brilliant minds who were trying to figure out how to beat it. The ultimate 3-ball autonomous vs. the ultimate goalie robot.

For 15 years I have been motivating myself and the teams I have been a part of with the goal of changing the culture by making FRC into an actual sport...the kind that non-participants will want to watch and follow (though for the first few years I admittedly didn't quite see it the same way I do now). Every year I cringe a little bit at that year's "twist" - FIRST has gotten Co-Opertition wrong more often than it has gotten it right - but there have always been moments where I think "wow, if every match was like that, this would be on ESPN".

I understand that growing FRC creates challenges that will necessitate change, but there are certainly other ways to do this than to shoot ourselves in the foot and eliminate one of the most universal elements of competition: A champion decided by a final title match(es).

It is clear with this decision that FIRST as an organization doesn't have quite the same set of goals that I do.

The ideals that are held by myself and by many of the longtime FRC mentors and volunteers whom I consider friends and colleagues are bigger than FIRST, and we will find (or make) another vehicle for them if we are forced to.

I was too disheartened to write a post this long, and instead resorted to my usual snarky comments.

I'm glad you did, I agree with every word and it describes how I feel exactly.

JohnFogarty

09-04-2015 12:20

Re: Future First Championship News

First Robotics Convention or Expo seems more accurate now.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09.

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