Chief Delphi - Clash of Objectives.

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Re: Clash of Objectives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by techhelpbb (Post 1473585)

As a founding member of Team 11 and someone that's been involved in FIRST over a 20 year period, with some breaks here and there:

I never did this to win.

I helped with this:
To inspire.
To give confidence.
To expose to new things.
To prove we are together as a society.

The cost of doing this has been relatively high for me.

I am not, at all, surprised given the increasingly competitive drive in our schools that it has bled into FIRST. People will tell you this is about jobs. They will tell you it is about the future. They will tell you it's about being better than some other group. What they won't tell you is that nothing comes with guarantees. Not your schools. Not your degrees. Not winning FIRST.

So why do it? We all stand together. All of us. Not just the winners. Not just those with the highest paying jobs. FIRST has given students, mentors and teachers I know a chance to shine when: resources, education, politics and age where against them.

Let's not cling to the idea that we must know who the best is to actually be fantastic at what we can deliver as an organization. If 2 championships makes this level of experience accessible to more people and the price is a few more winners out of billions of people on Earth are we really able to justify the selection of a winner over the values we embody?

Ask yourselves this....if we are hoping to build the future...how many people do you think you need to achieve that? I bet the number is bigger than the number of FIRST champions since 1996 put together.

Well said. I would agree the culture of FIRST has become competitive in nature over time. Like, you think that people wouldn't throw matches in FIRST; but it has definitely happened. I would even be willing to bet it's happened this season. Maybe even at my own regional a couple weeks ago.

But yeah, I'm willing to see where this project goes with 2Champs. But I'm still justifiably salty that we as the FIRST community didn't have a bigger say before everything went down. But that's me.

Re: Clash of Objectives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1473717)

Those in favor of the championsplit aren't people that detractors should think are inept or malicious people. This group is mostly made up of people who provide the event, see what benefits the event provides, and think providing the Championship experience that they see to more teams fits within their interpretation of these three components of FIRST's overarching message. Let's also take time to remember that a large number of people who support the championsplit are
-Not mentors
-Not former mentors (I know Frank is a former mentor, but I would love to know how many people who led this decision are mentors)
-Not students or alumni of any FIRST programs
-Not directly related to anyone in any of these categories

Quote:

Detractors of the championsplit aren't people that supporters should think are hyper-competitive, elitist, malicious people. This group is mostly made up of people who dedicate a grotesque amount of time to their teams, see what benefits the event provides, and think the most important elements for an inspirational Championship experience are evaporating away under the new plan, meaning the split fails to accomplish objectives within their interpretation of these three components of FIRST's overarching message. Let's also take time to remember that a large number of people who oppose the championsplit are
-Veteran mentors of HoF teams
-Younger mentors and recent alumni on above average, "plugged in" teams
-Current students on these above average "plugged in" teams
-Not board members with USFIRST or staff members at HQ
-Likely not RDs (though some mentors of HoF teams are also RDs, and that's awesome!)

Those are pretty bold assertions. Did you conduct a statistically valid survey to come up with them? Would you care to move those statements from the realm of biased guessing to the realm of credibility by backing them up with some facts?

My opinion is that you are flat wrong on several levels, and that these are irritatingly false dichotomies.

Blake

Re: Clash of Objectives.

I'd need to disagree with inspiring and getting peopled involved means you have to win. Even though we're a second year team, I have seen how inspired all of the students have become since last year. They are willing to put in a lot more time and do more complicated designs as well as understanding how important this program is. Most are now looking to go to school for engineering and we haven't won any awards. We just learned a lot building on old experiences and realizing we can go far if we put the time into it and try. Some teams may have students who don't put in all the work and so they have students who may not get inspired and learn the great benefits of this program.

Re: Clash of Objectives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominick Ferone (Post 1474011)

We just learned a lot building on old experiences and realizing we can go far if we put the time into it and try.

You don't need to win to inspire, but one could argue that your team really, genuinely, fully trying to win is what does a lot of the inspiring.

Re: Clash of Objectives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 1474030)

You don't need to win to inspire, but one could argue that your team really, genuinely, fully trying to win is what does a lot of the inspiring.

But our team is also doing a lot of work just to draw more and more school in, currently we have 3 high schools with us and working to bring more in. Last year we seeded high but didn't have the best bot but the students worked to do out reach and gain experiences anyway.

Re: Clash of Objectives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris is me (Post 1474030)

You don't need to win to inspire, but one could argue that your team really, genuinely, fully trying to win is what does a lot of the inspiring.

[you need to spread some reputation around before giving it to Chris_is_me again]