2015 Champs Predictions
 

With the release of divisions, who will come out on top?
(Lets see how off I am by Saturday :D)

Archimedes
1023-1538-503-51
Carson
254-1730-1711-1058
Carver
971-1986-2337-3507
Curie
1114-148-1816-5572
Galileo
2056-1619-365-5498
Hopper
987-548-4265-223
Newton
118-1678-5012-3137
Tesla
624-2481-319-1323

Quarterfinalists- Tesla,Hopper, Archimedes, Carver
Semifinalists- Galileo, Curie
Finalists- Newton
Winners- Carson

Honestly, predictions for Einstein are very hard because of the variables generated by the can wars. I think all of these alliances have a shot of winning Einstein.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Us as third pick of the first alliance? I wish but I think we'll get picked before then.

That or it's possible that someone beats 1023 out for first seed, but with their three capped stacks and twenty point auto I don't foresee that happening.

I'm predicting that a alliance with two Michigan teams will win Archimedes, but which two we'll have to see.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I think a tether bot, either 1296 or 4587, is going to come out of Carson with 254.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I agree. lol. :p

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

No 4th bots?

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Whoops, I forgot about that I will have to edit that once I get some spare time. :ahh:

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I don't really think that a two can grabber is going to last until the 24th pick but I guess it depends on how many two can grabbers are on the field

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

1296 put up 5 stacks of 5 in OKC a couple times I believe. And 4587 has improved greatly since their first regional. it will be fun to watch those teams battle for that 2nd seed.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Thanks for the mention!

The things I would do for this to happen though....

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Do you mean as a first pick or second?
I don't really think it would matter if the robot was tether or not. There are amazing teams that are tethered and not tethered. There isn't a substantially big difference between how good tethered robots are vs. non-tethered in general. If 254 is the #1 seed I think they will pick a team that can either make 3 stacks of 6 capped, or a team that can at minimum make 2 stacks of 6 capped and grab containers from the step, for their 1st pick. And cheesecake their second pick. That will optimize the points they can make. Weather the robot is tethered or not I don't think will make a difference.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I mean as the first pick. Both of these teams can put out 18 totes minimum from the HP. I agree that there isn't a large difference between tether bot and non tethered bot, that being said the difference can be 1 5/6 stack and those 30-42 points can be very helpful in seeding. Will Be interesting to see how everything plays out! Best of luck to your team!

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

i cant be the only one looking for a PNW team to go to Einstein...

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Yeah seriously, how is 4488 not even mentioned? They are such a consistent team it blows my mind how they are still overlooked.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I completely agree... what 254 needs is a partner that has hella quick burglars, can make 3-4 stacks, and can stay OUT of their way.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I think that 4488 has the best shot of any PNW team for making it to Einstein - despite their (relative) youth, they know exactly what they're doing. Also, I wouldn't consider them 'overlooked' at this point, seeing as they made it to IRI last year as a second-year team :rolleyes:

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Archimedes: 1310-4451-188-4334 QF
Carson: 254-973-1241-5122 SF
Carver: 4967-1625-829-216 QF
Curie: 148-1114-341-900 F
Galileo: 1690-27-191-237 QF
Hopper: 2826-987-4265-223 W
Newton: 195-3310-190-1111 SF
Tesla: 2481-3824-1323-3847 QF

I like predicting crazy upsets that are going to be totally wrong.
Plus I personally just want to see a few of these teams go to Einstein. Maybe if I just will it hard enough... :P

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Agreed. I think tether bots actually are a negative in that respect as they cannot run can burglars and so instead must be able to do a 3 tote auto and ideally have extra weight to tether a partner's ramp.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

[quote=Kevin Leonard;1471846]Archimedes: 1310-4451-188-4334 QF
Carson: 254-973-1241-5122 SF
Carver: 4967-1625-829-216 QF
Curie: 148-1114-341-900 F
Galileo: 1690-27-191-237 QF
Hopper: 2826-987-4265-223 W
Newton: 195-3310-190-1111 SF
Tesla: 2481-3824-1323-3847 QF QUOTE]

WOW!! No 118-1678 combo from newton?

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

And if you're playing with a team like the poofs who put up hella stacks, the 3 tote auto isn't nearly as good as the bonus from cans

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I like upsets.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I think the 20 pt autons are going to play a factor in elms.

Don't for get about the 3rd and 4th robot. There will be cheesecake all over the championship.

I could see top tier teams bringing a spare set of <.25 second whips that easily bolt on a kitbot, and those alliances intentionally picking 3rd rounders with almost no functionality just to modify. They don't even need to play in most matches, just the ones where all 4 cans are contested. If an alliance can consistently make 5 - 6 stacks with cans + noodles they make it to Einstein.

Winning the big show it will be more important to get the center cans, just to deprive the other alliance of scoring potential, but you won't need all the cans advance.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Archimedes: 1023, 2338, 3322, 4334

Carson: 254, 1296, 1711, 3256

Carver: 971, 1717, 2337, 2630

Curie: 1114, 148, 3193, 4595

Galileo: 2451, 27, 2168, 111

Hopper: 987, 469, 125, 2530

Newton: 195, 118, 175, 1111

Tesla: 1806, 624, 319, 1523

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

nah... have you seen 4488? them and 254 would be nigh unstoppable together

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Looking through so far, I think you're right. it might end up being us as that 3rd pick, actually...

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Ugh, we have to loose to 254 in the finals again? :rolleyes:

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

We'd be happy to help you change that. :)

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

What I would give to have that honor...

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Totally honored that you think we are good enough as a 4th pick. We shall just have to see. In the meantime, here's our new autonomous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqHk50xX1_A

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

It still seems like 254's best option is to pick another fast can grabber. There is the possibility of 3 tote autos being left later in the draft and they always have the option to cheesecake with their already fast can grabber.

I like the way you think!

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

[quote=King Boopington;1471850]You could just be supportive :(

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I need to do some more scouting before having an actual prediction, but I do think that many of these "guesses" are missing a major point: Canburgling.

Look at most of the Curie predictions: 148 and 1114 top everybody's list. There is no doubt in my mind that they are the two strongest robots in that division. However, neither has much canburgling ability (at least as of yet). If they work together as the #1 alliance in Curie, their third pick is not likely to have a great canburgler. In other words they could be facing the prospects of frequently only having access to 3 recycling containers. So... 3 x 42pt stacks + 20 auto + 30 more tote points (?) = 176 pts. That won't get them out of the quarterfinals.

So, let's say 1114 is #1 out of qualifications. Do they dare pick 148? That question comes down to: Have they developed a fast enough autonomous can-grabber to be able to afford to do so? Or, do they need to grave for the fastest two-can auto grabber in Curie, whomever that might be? Of course if 148 is #1, they are going to have to look at 1114 and determine if they have the ability to win the center bin wars. If not, do they dare pick 1114?

The fact of the matter is: That first pick in alliance selection is, in all likelihood, going to be the fastest and most accurate can grabber available. With countless teams developing grabbers right now, it is impossible to know who that will actually be.

In all divisions, I predict that the #1 captain will be somebody who individually puts up 120-140 points per match - three stack capability. That captain will then pick the fastest/best two-can grabber in the division so long as it can put up about 40 points. The third pick will be the best available two-can grabber. The fourth - a robot that can put up some points, but may only have the ability to grab one recycling container.

What I like about this: The competition is wide open. Starting right now, if you can build the fastest two bin grabber, you have a legitimate shot at getting yourself onto Einstein.

What I find both scary and exciting: The world's fastest canburgler may not present itself until elimination rounds - or even division finals.

Yes, this year's championships could be decided by cheesecake.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I expect all consistent and fast canburglars to be gone before second pick begins

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I don't.
For two reasons:
1) There are a lot of good canburglars
2) Teams don't scout well as a rule

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Plus the fact that you have to be able to convert those cans to stacks, and it's entirely possible some of the fastest canburglars are not very good stackers.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I wonder if anyone's been developing some crazy autonomous that is both a canburglar and a 3-tote auto. Some of the teams like 1114 and 254 certainly stack fast enough to make it a possibility, even if it would be quite the programming challenge (or it could be impossibl, I don't know).

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Exciting to see 319 on here! We'll be bringing our 20-point auto, landfill stacks, and fast capping to Tesla!

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

That seems really difficult. I think you would need to do one or the other, but have an alliance partner that can do the other task.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I like this! ;)

And I definitely see team 195 going to Einstein!

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I don't exactly know how the championships work, but I wouldn't be surprised if 1114 and 254 end up together and dominate.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

This is so painful. 503 has been living and breathing data this season, and we've gotten to the point where we can churn out an ideal pick list for every alliance captain. Watching teams with great bots squander their picks on incompatible alliance partners makes my head hurt.

...#scoutlifeproblems?

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

They are in different divisions so it won't happen unfortunately.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Archimedes: 1023, 1640, 4334, 836

Carson: 254, 4488, 3339, 2283

Carver: 971, 1717, 2337, 2630

Curie: 1114, 148, 1816, 228

Galileo: 2056, 1690, 237, 2168

Hopper: 2826, 987, 223, 78

Newton: 118, 1678, 1111, 3940

Tesla: 624, 1806, 340, 1323

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

It's nice to see our team get noticed! We're hoping to get picked a little higher in the draft but we wouldn't mind this alliance at all!

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I will only predict alliance captain and first pick because I have no idea what teams are looking for in their third/fourth bots.

Archimedes: 1023-1538
Carson: 254-4488
Carver: 359-1024
Curie: 1114-148
Galileo: 2056-27
Hopper: 987-469
Newton: 1678-3310
Tesla: 624-3476

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Really? From what I have seen, it is pretty reasonable to think that 1114 and 148 can use every single tote on their side of the field, especially since they are not capping all their stacks. 1114 uses all landfill totes for 3 stacks of 6 and then another from their ramp from HP load. 148 uses the remaining 24 totes in the HP to make 4 stacks of their own.
-They definitely have 3 containers, and will make 42(3) = 126 pts
-Since both have a 3 tote auto it is likely that they will get the 20 pts bonus
-After their first 3, they make 5 other stacks of totes 6 high = 30(2) = 60 pts
-They have 7 noodles left over, which I will assume they will just save

results in 206 points if they are completely robbed of cans.
each recycling container that they get will convert 6 totes (12) to a capped 6-stack (42), so a 30 point bonus.

TL;DR
for 1114 and 148, they score:
with no step cans: ~206 (7 litter in reserve)
with 1: ~236 (6 litter in reserve)
with 2: ~266 (5 litter in reserve)
with 3: ~296 (4 litter in reserve)
with 4: ~326 (3 litter in reserve)

They have incentive to pick each other. To beat them, you need to steal all 4 step cans and at least put up points equivalent to 5 stacks of 6 worth of points. (210)

Any predictions at this point for canburglars are pointless because so many teams will have better and faster ones. We'll just have to wait and see.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

And I guarantee 1114 has a fast canburglar by now.
So there's that.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I would be completely surprised- as these two particular teams are in different divisions with literal impossibility of being on the same alliance.

Teams are divided into 8 divisions- each division plays itself out just like a 'regional'. The 8 winning alliances play their own elimination tournament on Einstein to crown the World Champion.

If you are not in the same division, you have no way of playing on the same alliance. There is much more detail in the manual on this.

-Brando

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Thanks, Brandon. I thought that each name was for an alliance (like the top 8 at regionals).

Is there a list of teams in each division?

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

http://championship-notifier.evanforbes.net:3000/
Click on a division to see which teams are in it.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

THIS. Just winning the can race is not enough to win, you have to use the cans. Because the elims all the way through the divisions and Einstein are average based and round robin, you are still going to have to put up big points as an alliance to advance. If you win all 4 cans but only put up 3 -6 stacks you are not going to advance. In the Einstein quarter finals you only see 2 of 8 teams, so a fast can grabber alliance who can't stack could easily get knocked off by the other side of the bracket where the cans split 2-2 and both teams throw up 5 stacks of 6.

I actually think that in the quarter finals and semi finals of both sub-divisions and Einstein you might see some alliances agreeing to let the cans go 2-2 to better their chances at making it to the final dance.

Which asks the question, how many alliances do you all think will have the capacity to put up more than 5 - 6 stacks? I think very few, especially at the sub division level, and even in the quarterfinals on Einstein it will be an issue for most.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

254 is tethered to their ramp, so they can't grab containers form the step during Auto. That means that they will either pick a team that can grab containers or cheesecake a team to do so.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Or tether an alliance partner to their ramp.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Can you explain to me why you would split the RCs 2-2? If I have the faster can grabbers, I'm going to grab all 4 to lower your alliance score even if I can only score two of them. This elimination structure is brutal and 1 bad match by 2 teams in the QFs (from my alliance stealing the RCs) is two less teams I have to beat to move on. By splitting the RCs, you may move on to the SF while I'm stuck trying to find a good seat for the next round.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

It's not like they really need the ramp to clear the landfill... And if they want they can tether it to another alliance partner who is running the auto (given weight allows).

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I don't think 1816 would be a pick for this alliance because they go from the land fill and this alliance would want a second feeder station robot.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

It will be less of an agreement, and more of an alliance deciding to take the cans they know they can get with their faster can theft device that happens to be attached to their best stacking robot, because they don't want to risk said stacking robot. Spending half the match or more tied up in some can battle disaster can kill your alliance much more easily than not having 7 cans to use.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

It all comes down to not being able to guarantee that you are faster. Fast can grabbers are a relative game, if .25 seconds is the mean time that we are using for reference and every alliance has 2 robots that can do it that fast, how often will you KNOW that you are going to get all 4.

Assuming your team can use all the cans look at the point potentials
I would rather bet on getting 210 pts in a match carrying me forward than risk 126 and know I will be out.

Now this is only in the situation where winning the can race is in doubt. If you know you will win, you never agree to this deal, as it lowers your scoring potential for no reason.





This brings up another point. I say you always put your 3rd robot (cheese caked or organic) with whips up against the best scorer (with whips) on the other alliance. In the chance that they do get caught up the impact could be huge regardless of who gets the cans.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Yes, I'm sure they do. However, the real questions are: How fast is it? and "Is somebody clever enough to build a faster one?" 1114 is a great team top to bottom. However, they are all human. They can be beaten. If they don't have the fastest canburgler, they are vulnerable.

Do I think they will most likely win? Certainly. However, I really believe that FRC is a competition and I plan to compete - there is no reason to roll over. Am I 90% likely to lose? Yup. 99%? Probably. However, I am going to do everything I can to try to beat them.

Let's not deify that pair and, instead, find some way to better them. If we prevent them from gaining any center bins, they will lose. I'll give them the 206 points calculated above. That won't get them out of the quarterfinals either. They need at least one (likely two) center bins just like the rest of us.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Or tether their ramp to a team say, somebody like us or 1296 who has weight left over and needs to be in that zone anyway who can also make lots of stacks. Who knows how it will play out though. We are working on our autonomous sequence the next few days To see if we can do a thing or two with those gold ones with those extra 15 seconds.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

It's not quite so simple. Let me give the example from MSC. 1023, a HP bot, seeded first and had three realistic choices:

• 33 - Best landfill bot
• 548 - Most consistent 2-can grabber, very capable HP stacker
• 469 - Arguably a better can grabber than 548 when functioning, similar speed for 4 cans. Caveats: only used once in a match, takes a bit too long to set up

No single team, even with a little help, can put up enough points to win, no matter how many cans are available. Picking the team with the best can grabber available might have worked at MSC, because a team like 1023 plus 469 (not that great a stacker) plus the last pick of the draft could probably have put up enough points. But 1023 made the obvious choice in picking an arguably worse can-grabber but better stacker in 548, because 2 cans is enough if you can put up the stacks.

Fast-forward to CMP, there's no guarantee a great stacker seeding 1st will have a 548 available to them (except in Hopper, I suppose). Picking a dedicated can-grabber could work if there's a good enough stacker coming back around, but the last picks at MSC were higher quality than they will be at CMP, and even at MSC this was barely a viable strategy*. Maybe they'll be able to rely on one stack from their 3rd bot.

But a top alliance knows they need to win their division before they win Einstein. Picking a can grabber that can't do much else will result in that alliance doing neither, because one team, with a little help, simply can't create enough stacks to win.

tl;dr Even can grabbers need to score stacks if they want to be picked first


*573, as the 5th captain, took a big gamble picking 27, a dedicated canburglar/capper, as their first pick. But it paid off like crazy because they were able to get a phenomenal 3rd bot, 3098 (Watch them score 20 totes). It should not have worked, 3098 should've been picked way earlier.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

If you can beat that alliance so easily, wouldn't you want to play against them in the finals? If you help an alliance that you know you could beat advance, then they're knocking out an alliance that could beat you.

Using rock-paper-scissors as a guide;

You (rock) could easily beat scissors (slow RC grabber). However, there's another alliance that has quicker RC grabbers than you, but can't score as many 6-stacks as you. They'll be paper. If you can help scissors improve their average (sharing RCs), then there's a chance they'll knock paper out of elims. Then when Finals come, you could easily beat scissors.

It's a different strategy, but you can see why you'd do it.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Archimedes: 1023-314-3602
Carson: 67-85-3604
Carver: 4967-66-2834
Curie: 5046-107- 70
Galileo: 1189-494-3618
Hopper: 548-33-4362
Newton: 1918-3641-3539
Tesla: 2137-2959-226

I started making this as a joke, but some of these have a legitimate chance to form and win their division.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I am very well aware that this will never happen. But just out of curiosity how do you all think the divisions would do in Einstein if the top 4 teams from each division was in an alliance. I am basing the top 4 teams off of OPR. OPR isn't the most accurate when it combines multiple events, but still is accurate enough that I am using it.

Archimedes:
1023, 2338, 314, 1538
Carson:
254, 1519, 1730, 4488
Carver:
368, 1986, 2852, 1768
Curie:
1114, 148, 4143, 3309
Galileo:
2056, 1619, 330, 525
Hopper:
2826, 987, 33, 3683
Newton:
118, 1678, 1756, 3130
Tesla:
2481, 2122, 3824, 1806

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I would predict Newton winning in that scenario with their canburglars by starving the other teams of cans while still being able to put up a large number of stacks.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I do disagree. If you are a great stacker (such as 4488) as the #1 captain and pick a great robot - whose not a can grabber, by the time you get your second pick you may not have any good can grabbers left. You have now limited yourself to 3 RC's for elimination rounds: A formula for an exit in the quarter finals. Sure, you might have the worlds fastest piece of cheesecake, but that will still limit you to getting two additional RC's - assuming your cheesecake truly is the fastest.

Nay... Unless that #1 captain is an autonomous RC grabber or has some very fast cheesecake waiting, it needs to choose an RC grabber.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I can tell you now, there is 0% chance of any of those happening.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Never say never :)

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I do agree with this... If the can grabber is truly so good it will get 2 every time and winning every possible match, I would want it to be able to put up at least 40 points on its own...

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I know this will never happen. I was just curious. That would be a really exciting Einstein if it did. Lol

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

He literally listed the 4 best teams in each division and asked which would win if they had to face off. No where did he say those were anywhere near realistic.

And he didn't list all the divisions. What?

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Not to be biased, but I think Curie would win.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I had them all typed out but apparently they were lost... I'm going to edit that.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

We would have an amazing set of quarterfinal rounds, where five teams would be eliminated instead of the usual 4. In the slot left open the Woodie Flowers, Dean Kamen and Donald Bossi alliance would enter and sweep through to win the whole thing.

But on a more serious note, most of teams would be much less effective than they look. Even if they manage to get all the bins off the step, most have the capacity to stack more than seven 6 stacks. We would have probably one of the least exciting einsteins ever because they would finish stacking way before the time is up (except for when Dean Kamen lobs a game winning noodle into an unfinished six stack).

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

http://www.simbotics.org/files/photo...ssex2015_0.jpg
From 1114's website, it looks like they had a cool canburglar from windsor essex. I can't find any video though.

0 step cans means 126 points?
In QF8 at NECMP, our canburglars missed, so all four went to the other side.
With 0 step cans, we (1519-195-2067) scored 214 points.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Missed... looked more like "got beat"

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

In QF4, we got beat by your alliance.
In QF8, we just missed.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Yes, that's what happens when the can isn't there any more.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Well, we were misaligned, so we were off target for both cans.
If we were aligned, 237 indeed would have beaten us to the first can, but we would have taken the second one.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Burn

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Those are max points per RC, ex 0 step would mean 3 stacks of 42pts, 3*42=126. If you got 214, there's another 28pts in auto (max), 28 in litter, then you would have scored an additional 16-20 totes (depending on 28 or 20 pt auton). Seeing how there's 18 in the landfill and another 12 in the HP zone, completely possible. Scoring another 3 6-stacks, that would be scary if you did get those containers. That sounds like a very good alliance.

But for every RC you don't secure, you would have to put up 21 totes to match your opponents.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I think you definitely need to go back and watch QF8 before you argue about it. 2067 clearly just missed their second can, 237 only beat them to one.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

With all the talk about canburglars OP, I want to check the math to see if it's possible to win a 1-3 RC loss at very high competitive play. Assuming auto points to be equal, and both alliances can make 42pt stacks with every container they have.

Alliance 1: 3RC grab auto
6*42+4*4=268

Alliance 2: 1RC grab auto
4*42+4*6=192

268-192=76, an additional 38 totes must be scored. With 4*6 totes being used by RC stacks, that leaves only 24 totes left to be scored. With auto points being matched, it is impossible to win at this insane level.

Now if Alliance 2 had a perfect 32pt auto mode, it would make it closer.

Alliance 1: 6*42+4*4=268

Alliance 2: 4*42+4*6+32=224

268-224=44, meaning 22 additional totes need to be scored to match scores.

So, in theory, it is possible to win, but highly unlikely. In this scenario where Alliance 1 can score 6 42pt stacks (wow!), it is highly likely that they also have a good autonomous mode score.

If an alliance in Finals steals 3 or 4 containers (and be able to score them), there is nothing Alliance 2 can do to win. It is very possible that two top teams could score 3 42pt stacks independantly, meaning that this scenario is very much possible.

TL;DR: RCs OP

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

It was actually 21 totes :yikes:. And we were doing stacks of 6 just as fast in Semis and Finals.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I really liked that alliance. In a game where the top OPR teams score 42pt stacks by themselves, it was really cool watching your alliance work together to score. Teams like 27 that focused on perfecting one element of scoring struggled in the rankings because they are extremely partner-reliant. However, when they were paired together in that alliance, they went far. They had a very good chance of beating #1, and they proved that the #1 alliance isn't a garunteed win. I hope to see more alliances like theirs at worlds.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Archimedes: 1023, 1640, 836, 4334 QF
Carson: 254, 5406, 2534, 1885 W
Carver: 1986, 368, 144, 337 QF
Curie: 1114, 148, 70, 120 SF
Galileo: 2056, 2451, 1619, 2836 SF
Hopper: 33, 2826, 5413, 2614 QF
Newton: 1678, 118, 1756, 4522 F
Tesla: 2481, 624, 48, 2587 QF

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Archimedes 2338-68-217 SF
Carson 1519-67-93 W
Carver 368-971-216 QF
Curie 1086-701-176 QF
Galileo 330-525-365 SF
Hopper 2826-548-1218 F
Newton 195-3130-537 QF
Tesla 2054-2062-706 QF

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Archimedes : 1023 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Carson: 254 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Carver: 1986 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Curie: 1114 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Galileo: 2056 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Hopper: 2826 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Newton: 118 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber
Tesla: 2122 or 1806 seeds first, picks fastest can grabber

I'm fairly confident in all of those first pick guesses.

Teams are eliminated on einstein in order of can grabber speed.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

But first they have to get to Einstein

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

And speed doesn't matter if it isn't consistent.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Updated version for those of you who don't look at previous comments.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

grabbing all 7 cans and making 5 stacks lock you into making it through quarters, and semis, then you obviously win finals. The only possible way for you to not make it out of quarters or semis is to do the absolute bare minimum (i.e. 5 stacks and nothing else) and for all of your opponents to be stacking through the roof.

Example: there are 4 alliances in semis. Alliance 1 has the fastest can grabbers, alliances 2 and 3 have the next fastest, alliance 4 doesn't have any. Alliance 1 grabs all 4 cans in every match and puts up 5 stacks, alliance 4 grabs zero in every match. In order for alliance 1 to not make the finals alliances 2 and 3 have to grab all 4 cans and put up 7 stacks when they play against the 4th alliance, and they have to go 2 and 2 on the cans when they play each other building 5 stacks a piece. If any of these conditions are not met, alliance 1 has a free by into the finals.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Its nice to see 3130 on the updated list. If there is a MN robot that makes it to Einstein this year I would bet it would be 3130.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

I think we saw this at MSC, it doesn't matter how fast the can grabber is if you don't race anybody. The best can grabber wasn't the fastest, but one that could stack afterwards with the newly acquired cans. If you can get both speed and stacking(see 548) even better. There were very few races at MSC in the tournament, and most teams didn't want to risk messing up their average by racing and messing up their cycles. I don't think we will see many races until divisional finals and Einstein finals.

The other thing two can grabbers mess up is auto. If you want to run auto, you can't move your can grabber on the bump side without careful planning or in Tele op. You move into the space the yellow totes end up. Octo match 5 at MSC we raced 469 because we had no choice to move, fortunately we did get the can. Teams are going to have to decide if they want auto, or grab from the bump side.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Given your Newton prediction, so do I.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

At the highest level regionals, the finalists have been the most predictable in years. Yes there have been upsets but they've mostly been at regionals where the very top teams have had OPRs in the 70s and 80s. Once the OPRs go past 90 the events go to form. It's an unfortunate aspect of this year's game.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

What if the picking robot IS the fastest can grabber in the division?
I'm not saying I disagree with you, I'd probably still pick the next fastest can grabber, but there are other options. If I were 1114 and I had the fastest can grabber in my division, I might pick 148 for the pure scoring they offer.
Also, teams on Einstein might choose to forgo the direct can battle in favor of a 2-2 split of cans. Anything is possible. Maybe some of these team's can grabbers break and they lose to an alliance with a slower can grab.

I also really like to root for the underdog (I'm one of THOSE people that thinks serpentine drafts are AWESOME).

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

Having seen 1619 in action... if they fall to be a 3rd bot on an alliance, then their robot is broken (the only reason they'd seed outside the top 8) or a lot of scouts need to find new jobs.

I expect 1619 to challenge 2056 and 2451 for the top seed.

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

+1

Also, someone should make like a March Madness Bracket thing for this (I know there has been one in the past, not sure if it's happening again though).

Re: 2015 Champs Predictions
 

My completely unbiased predictions for 2015:

Archimedes: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Carson: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Carver: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Curie: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Galileo: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Hopper: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Newton: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Tesla: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711

Finalists: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711
Winners: 1711, 1711, 1711, 1711 after pulling off an amazing upset

:D

In all seriousness though, I do expect for some serious upsets. Not just in Einsteins, but in qualifications and divisions as well. Some of the divisions run deep with great teams; expect unexpected alliances to form and win.