Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Well, our team has gone to Worlds twice, 2013 & 2015, and both times we were broke into; both times in the the team parking lot!

It seems that crooks have figured out a way to insert a large screwdriver or pry bar just under the plastic door handle mechanism, puncturing through the metal door skin, and then they pry upwards really hard while rocking the vehicle to get the door locking mechanism to unlock. This happened on Friday with both of my two daughter's taking a nap in the truck! They were awaken, startled, to the rocking of the truck; the two culprits yelled holy @#$% and ran off.

If we had not been broken into in 2013, I would never have know what to look for this time; it's barely noticeable when you walk up to the door, especially at night. Walking to the dome Saturday (next) morning, I saw over 5 other vehicles with the same puncture hole right under the door handle mechanism. I ended up using a binder strap to hold the door shut when I parked the vehicle as the locking mechanism is unreliable now.

On Saturday, I caught a older gentlemen that was between a mini van and a tree. I stopped as it looked fishy. He stumbled out acting drunk and gave me the story he had just taken a wiz. I stayed back from my quest just to make sure, and he doubled back to the same area after a short time; very stechy. I could not find a security guard, so I ended up flagging down a cop car.

Worst yet, if you did see the security, they were either sitting in their cars or sitting on the hoods.

If it wasn't for the trailer, I would have parked in a gated parking lot. If we qualify for worlds next year, I may have to re-evaluate if I will be going. It's going to cost me over $500 to get the door fixed this time; we cannot afford another expense next year.

Bottom line: WATCH OUT and CHECK YOUR DOOR LOCKS FOR DAMAGE before you move your vehicle!

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Yea, our RV was broken into the same method on Friday as well. They got off with all my clothes, my wife's clothes, 3 laptops, surface, ipad, couple rasberry pi's. And a big hole in the drivers side door. STL Police are following up on a lead on Craigslist for 3 macbooks that match our specs, hopefully it turns out.

If anyone has any description of the perpetrators it would be good so I can provide that information to the detective working our case.

Thanks,

Don Krtanjek
Mentor, TechFire 225

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

With this news and the murder that occurred at the City Museum on Friday, I'd say its about time the championships moved away from STL.

Aside from these things, I was astonished at the number of empty buildings in the downtown area. Everywhere you walked was dirty awnings and neglected buildings. It's really a shame. I wonder how STL can turn this around.

Is there hope that Houston and Detroit are better?

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

I've heard Detroit isn't that great either, empty buildings and all that. I haven't heard anything about Houston. I looked online and acording to this website, Detroit is the #1 most dangerous City in America, with St. Louis in second. Houston isn't even ranked.

Edit: I found another site that ranks the top 100, with Detroit in 3rd, St. Louis in 14th, and Houston 68th.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Maybe next year we should organize team patrols. Have each team volunteer a senior and a mentor to help patrol. Patrol in packs of 5-10 at a time and stick together. Most of security's job is to be seen. Let them know to observe and report.

At night we'd need cars to patrol the parking lot, but in shifts with this many teams working together shouldn't be an issue. This is becoming a serious issue, in 2013 we lost a $500 camera out of our pits. We have a nice new (ok a year old) trailer that we'd like to keep nice.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

This seems like a potentially very dangerous idea.

Security and police have their jobs, the students have their job (Enjoy the event, learn, get inspired) and the mentors have theirs (Help the students, make sure the students don't get injured). Assigning students to patrol an area already known to be dangerous? Seems like a not so good idea to me.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

If teams need to start doing this to keep their stuff safe there is a serious problem.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Uhmmm... the problem is already there. It is already a serious problem. Shouldn't be dangerous as long as they (and the mentors they are with) know not to confront anyone. They aren't acting as cops just neighborhood watch type stuff.

For the past several years people have been going from car to car stealing anything they wanted.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

2 years ago our truck was broken into. Someone took a screwdriver to the driver door and ignition. It was parked in the approved marshaling lot. Only reason they didnt drive away with the truck and trailer is because our team has gotten in the habit of pulling the fuel or ignition relay.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

How hard is it to just hire some private security to patrol the lot?

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

I'm pretty sure any parent you told that you were going to have their children volunteer to play watch dog in parking lots in St. Louis to keep an eye out for thieves is going to question why/if their son or daughter should be going on said trip.

This needs to be put back on FIRST. If you had something stolen/broken at the event send FIRST an email especially if there has been a long history.

Second is don't leave anything in your vehicle or unattended. I know desperate times can call for desperate measures especially while volunteering but this happens every year.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

To the OP, I'm sorry this happened to you. The fact that is happening at all, never mind in the scale it is, is unacceptable.

FIRST needs to start putting pressure on it's contractors to actually start beefing up security. And if that doesn't go anywhere, then they should strongly consider hiring extra security to keep an eye on the lot.

I understand its normally park at your own risk for events like this, but it has clearly has gotten to a level beyond where that is acceptable.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

For those who had break-ins or attempts, was FIRST notified. FIRST is required to file an incident report for any incident's that occur at an event. If enough of them are filed, then hopefully this will show them that something is wrong and something needs to change.

I went this year, not competing just spectating, I parked in the MAC garage each day and didn't have any issues. In 2012 I left my truck and trailer in the lot behind the dome from load in to load out and didn't have any issues.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Yes, I sent FIRST an email the night after since no body was around Sunday morning...never actually got a response tho.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Where specifically is this parking lot?

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

:ahh: Very bad idea. I note that you are mentor and that your team is associated with multiple high schools. Whether or not you are a teacher as well I do not know. I am and can tell you that my district would forbid us from going before letting us participate in any form of patrol of this nature.

It's like the old quote from MiB, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky animals." Teenagers are the same way. One or two kiddos with an adult can be smart, multiple teenagers who may or may not stay with the adult to whom they are assigned...well let's just say that it would be too easy to mistake them for the wrong person under the right conditions.

Just my two-cents.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Not sure if trolling...

I don't think many parents would be happy to find out that their child was apart of this hunger-games-esque wolf-pack and was consequently endangered.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

I'm assuming it's the one north of the Dome indicated here: http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default...d-In%20Map.pdf

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

First is a game about robots correct? Why not solve the problem with robots.
Maybe you could bring some old bots along and upgrade the battery and allow them to patrol all night. I would find it hilarious to see a potential theif get pelted with frisbees from our 2013 bot.

All humor aside, this is a pretty bad problem.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

*smacks forehead* Early morning thunderstorms and 1/2 our teachers out with no subs has impacted my Potential BS detector...

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

You could use vision tracking, but I'm sure it'd be very hard in the night.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

That area looks sketchy to begin with. We never park there.
Sorry to hear about the breakins of FRC teams.
First it was computers being stolen from pits and now this.:mad:

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Nope not trolling. I figured a few mentors and kids driving around the parking lot is not that dangerous.

If it is truly that dangerous then why on earth are we having the event there in the first place?

This place you are saying is dangerous is the same place the kids go all day long. I don't think we should have to monitor it. If First hires a couple security guards to do driving patrols that should be sufficient.

The truth is that having that many kids with that much money in equipment is just asking for trouble. Security should have been everywhere in that place. I saw some, but not nearly enough.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Is there hope that Houston and Detroit are better?

Yes, there is hope. The area where the even will be held in Houston is actually quite nice and well populated, even at night.

That said, I wouldn't suggest crossing US 59 to go in to old Chinatown after dark. Also, like any big city, keep your wits about you and be alert.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Detroit gets a lot of bad rep, but honestly it is a HUGE city. Sure there are areas we shouldn't go, but there are nice areas too.

MiCMP was held at an event that looked a little shady driving up to it but was actually quite nice. Would have been a great venue for about 1/2 as many teams. (anyone who attended will understand).

Until we are out of the Edward Jones Dome First needs security in the parking lots. Visible patrolling security.

Another thing teams can do is put up security cameras on their trailers.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

hardcopi;
Just have seen too many issues with law enforcement and teenagers. I am NOT deriding law enforcement just know how it is when tempers are running high or people are overly hyped up on both sides of the equation.

A bunch of teenagers participating a parking lot version of a neighborhood watch in a town where they may never have been before just feels dangerous all over it to me, even with a level-headed mentor in the mix. All it would take is for one of them to post it to social media and the next thing you know you have 10,000 FIRST teenagers mobbing the scene. Let's face it, not all mentors/coaches/chaperones are responsible adults themselves.

I do agree that this many kiddos, that much equipment, etc. all spells for a higher danger factor and something has to give. Expanded security is definitely necessary. Sounds like they may have hired the wrong crew though.

Keep in mind, the shift to St. Louis from Atlanta was what...5 years ago...or was it 6? A lot changes happen in a city over that amount of time. St. Louis was probably a slightly different place back then.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

In and right around the dome and America's center and the Renaissance Grand, I felt like there was a good police presence during the event hours when students were out and about. After hours, not so much. And in other parts of the city like near the arch, or even just a couple blocks from the dome, there were definitely some very sketchy characters hanging around, and a much smaller police presence.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

On thursday night, Opening ceremonies ended late. My stepfather and I took the metro back to our hotel (which was by the airport). So by the time Opening ceremonies ended, it was already getting dark. It was kind of scary riding the metro after dark in St.Louis. I had a bag on me that was pretty full (For we had went to the Innovation Faire earlier in the day). We got some hard stares and a few glances at the bag. But my stepdad moved me next to the window and he held the bag on his lapAlso, walking on the streets at night wasn't so pleasant either. But luckily everyone is alright and no one got hurt. I am truly sorry about your car and other peoples cars, but I am very happy no one was injured.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

If you go to a big city, you are at a greater risk of theft. Period. It's no fault of St. Louis or FIRST, because "nice" neighborhoods don't cotton to football arenas.

Please, y'all keep this in mind when the venues change to other cities like Detroit, which is a perfectly fine city. Just sayin'.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Not to shanghai this thread, but this is why I loved Disney. It was a safe and friendly environment. No one was mugged. No vehicles were burgled. Kids could walk places without feeling dread.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread :D

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

The neighborhood directly behind the Volunteer Parking on Cole street was deemed the 22nd most dangerous neighborhood in the US in 2014. It wasn't on the list this year. I drove through it. It was uncomfortable. It looks half abandoned.
Truth be told I don't get too bent out of shape personally about US cities anymore ever since I went to Jamaica. They average over 1200 murders a year. How do they not run out of people?

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

As somebody who lives in the Detroit area, parts are bad, but the area where world's will be held is more or less safe. There are parts that are bad but the downtown area itself isn't terrible. I don't worry about walking the mile or so from say, the Cobo center to Hard Rock Cafe, and the walk back, in the evening. It's well lit and not in a dangerous area. Flint, MI is actually more dangerous than Detroit.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Realize any urban area large enough to support a 400 team plus world event is going to have sketchy areas. Often close to the venues. Some of the basic ones: Travel in groups. Don't park overnight in open lots without security. Be aware of your surroundings.

St Louis really wanted us here. Too bad that secure parking for team trailers was not on the negotiated list of items for St Louis to provide.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

There have been problems every year in that north parking lot.

You would think you could hire the PD to put in a few of these for a few days. They are effective

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

We have attended the past 3 years, and have always been able to park our RV in the parking lot right outside the main entrance to the Dome which had an attendant in the lot. This year, the attendant said that any oversize vehicles had to park in the team parking lot where the trailers were located. We saw 2-3 security guards in that lot and had not heard about prior break-ins in previous years so we thought with security at the parking lot we would be ok just like previous years. The break-in happened in daylight not evening. This leads me to two conclusions, people have not reported to FIRST so FIRST was not able to coordinate proper security or the security guards just didn't care and let anyone do what they wanted in that parking lot.

Needless to say it is over and yes they took over $15k worth of computers, tablets, electronics, and all our clothes, but we are safe and that all can be replaced. It is just disappointing that with the 200 extra teams and roughly $1M more for those teams FIRST could not coordinate better security on the outside of the dome as they did with the badges on the inside.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

As someone who lives near Detroit, (about 45 min West of Detroit) there are some areas that are very bad neighborhoods, but along the river, downtown, where the possible venues are for the championships, it's not bad at all.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Yeah, my boss had a conference there in Detroit last fall and he said it really isn't too bad if you stay downtown.

For tips on securing trailers, check this thread suggested in another thread about stolen trailers: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=107113

Also take a look at http://www.dewaltmobilelock.com/prod...nd-gps-locator (looks like it's $250ish and $19/mo)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzenSPDJqE < there's a project a team could do ;)

I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but personally I think that team trailers put a HUGE glaring target on your stuff saying "hey, I have lots of valuable electronics inside of me!".
If a bunch of teams rented uhauls and flooded the lot with them, I'd imagine that it would have the thieves working long enough to catch them (maybe -- Thinking of probability here lol, feel free to comment other mathmatical deterrents here xD) :P

Remember, use the buddy system!

I feel like first seems to pick the wrong cities. I say we have worlds #1 in Pittsburgh at the consol energy center. Then worlds #2 in Vegas. Opposite ends of the us. Decent cities.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Could you provide us with the specific considerations you've made to regarding venue, geographic location, cost, impact to the city and surrounding area, hotel capacity, airport capacity, ect. that make these cities better than the ones FIRST has identified?

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

One of those cities is a desolate wasteland and the other one is Las Vegas.

Wow alright

1.Pittsburgh - consol energy center is gigantic I've competed there (gymnastics) and its a beautiful venue. It's blocks away from a great convention center and its a pretty good neighborhood. There's a ton of restaurants in walking distance along with quite a bit of parking around the stadium. Hotel wise there are numerous. Hotels right there including a Hilton and Marriott across the street. It's also close to carnegie melon who I am sure being the engineering school they are would support the event.

Pittsburgh is a declining city but it's not at a decline where it becomes dangerous.
The only thing bad about Pittsburgh is everything closes very early.
Vegas is not bad. Yes it has its quirks but it is filled with convention centers, hotels, and stadiums. It's also in a harsh decline. The area isn't awful as it's filled with police 24/7.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

What about my other questions?

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

"Blocks away" doesn't work here. "Gigantic"--let's just say there's a lot of places that could be described that way and very few can handle a FRC Championship.

As a baseline: Seating for about 25K-30K persons. Absolute minimum floorspace requirement is 4 basketball courts including benches, football field preferred. Pit area of 10' square pits, with aisles at least 1.5 pits wide (15'), for 400 teams, preferably in one room, with another large area immediately nearby if not in the room for all the "pit administrivia" like inspections, Pit Admin, Spare Parts, practice fields. Competition and pit must have covered connection, and must be reasonably close (preferably next door to each other with at least one common wall); must be on same level or moderate ramps.

Now, can you still advocate for Pittsburgh?

Houston is looking pretty good now.

But in all seriousness regardless of how good the city is in regards to stadiums. It has to be geographically smart. I vote let's go back to Disney.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Can you explain how Disney is "geographically smart"? Seems like a venue in a corner of the country isn't as good as a venue on an edge (i.e. Houston/Detroit), and definitely not as good as one roughly in the middle (St. Louis).

Florida is a pretty big first state and the entire east coast has pretty easy access to Florida also Mickey.

In all seriousness calm down people. Giving negative rep left and right for an empty proposal at midnight you guys need to chill out.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

The 2016 FIRST Robotics Competition game is...
... Security Scramble!

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

Hotels - It's freakin Disney. And the hotels aren't bad. I've stayed on Disney property (busses ran there) on a Saturday night for under $80 a night. It was quiet, clean, and easy to get to. (And on the thread topic, my car was safe) And it could sleep 4 no problem.

Transportation To:

- Driving - Comparable to Houston for teams driving to it (which is bad). STL has 40% of FRC teams within driving range (600 miles) Detroit is ~50% within driving range. Houston is, well, I don't recall the exact number but it was sub 10%. Orlando is only marginally better than Houston.

- Flying - It's Orlando, it's cheap and easy to get there for anyone in the globe. Houston is the 12th busiest airport, Orlando is 14th, and Detroit is 17th. I'd be willing to bet they are all comparable (STL for reference is 31st, ATL is 1st)

Transportation Around - Disney busses run until really late (source, I've been on them at ~3am and they were still running. Barring that, the roads are not crowded except during rush hour, and even then it's not terrible (I'm comparing it to Boston)

Weather - In April it's only hot... not OMG I'M GOING TO DIE HOT yet. I only got sick due to the heat ONCE in May.

Source: I used to live in Tampa and went out to meet friends in Disney every couple weeks.

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

If it wasn't for the (somewhat) lack of a venue that could handle champs at this stage in the game, Disney has literally everything else in place to handle champs and would be perfect. Great facilities, easy transportation into and around the resort, plus getting to work with Disney's Production Team would make the show quality of these events skyrocket. Oh yeah and its Disney! We can dream though...

Ok, so Cornado Springs Does have an 86,000 sq ft exhibition hall with a 60,000 sq ft ballroom so its doable, but once again I'm dreaming here....:rolleyes:

We are moving worlds to my backyard this year. Who's comin?

Re: Go to worlds and get your car broke into...
 

There's more than a few FRC teams located on the other side of your defined edges. And more teams that will cross over that edge and back again as they follow the quickest and shortest route between much of the Northeastern U.S. and Detroit (making the necro'ing of threads like this one a strong possibility two years from now).