Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

I agree with the top two....but 3 and 4 are questionable. I see it more as this as long as we are looking at this from a season over view standpoint. The top two were just good throughout, 314 had struggles but was fairly consistent with 3 stacks for a large part of the season...you can't deny 3 wins as number 1 seed. 33 was seen at its best doing 3 stacks, it seemed to be more of a 20 point auto and then 2. The 5th bots are hard, we had 68 doing 3 at its best plus starting to throw out more totes but had some consistency issues when their ramp was not perfectly aligned. 3641 started along the same lines with picking up in stack count as the season went on. 107 was for sure a dark horse for many people. Their 20pt auto and 2 stacks was pretty killer. If I recall correctly they started their 3rd often? Maybe I am thinking wrong on that one, someone correct me if so. I don't think that any of these teams are bad and are better than a majority of FRC.

1-1023
2-548
3-314
4-33
5-68/3641/107

-Ronnie

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Michigan had a ton of absolutely killer machines.
67 was two feeder stacks, a tote stack auto, and some of the fastest can grabbers. 1918 and 2137 were similarly good, but without the tote stack auto. 2054 was killer early on, and their autonomous routine was insane. 70 and 494 were unique machines that could pull two stacks from anywhere and hit a tote stack auto. 217 and 1718 were interesting niche picks with good can grabbers that each made division finals. 85 at their best was making three capped stacks of 5 in Carson qualifications, and they also had a one can grab. 27 had a crazy year, making it to both MSC and Galileo finals. 2959 and 4967 were two other great landfill machines from Michigan, who generally made about 2 stacks in a match. You also can't forget 503, who had some of the other fastest can grabbers out there.

I think the only two machines you could for-sure put in the MI top 5 are 1023 and 548. 3rd has to be 33, because they were byfar the best landfill robot in Michigan, and one of the best in the world, as well as the 4th overall pick at IRI.
Next could be any of 27/67/68/70/107/314/503/1918/2054/2137/2959/3641/4967 depending on what attributes you value more and what competitions you look at.

By performance at worlds:
27- Division Finalist
67- Division Finalist
68- Division Quarterfinalist
70- Division Semifinalist
107- Division Quarterfinalist
314- Division Semifinalist
503- Division Semifinalist
1918- Division Semifinalist
2054- Division Quarterfinalist
2137- Division Finalist
2959- Division Quarterfinalist
3641- Division Quarterfinalist
4967- Division Quarterfinalist

Basically beyond your top 3 teams, there's extreme parity among the rest of Michigan's elite.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

You do not receive any extra points for using the landfill that I am aware of? so please explain how 33 can be better than teams that could stack more from human player station just because they were the best Michigan LF bot(which I am not arguing)? Yes they had a 20pt auto, but without noodling a majority of their stacks(they had alliance partner noodle one at champs and they did the first one) I don't see the same and we can agree to disagree. Now 67 as a two stack machine...I don't think it happened as much as the season wen't on but yes they had fast grabbers. This is all opinion and we can go on for days going on about it. I just would not go as far as "extreme parity" when comparing a team that does 126 points versus a team that does 84/104 with auto.

-Ronnie

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

I took a look at the FIM District Rankings:

1) 1023 384
2) 548 380
3) 2197 307.5
4) 33 287.5
5) 68 286.5

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

There were many more effective HP stackers than landfill stackers, so running out of HP totes is a real issue. A good landfill stacker mitigates that issue, and so is valued more in my eyes, at least.
If you have 2 3-stack HP stackers on your alliance, you will run out of totes. And the third robot becomes useless (apart from grabbing/flipping cans) if they can't landfill.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

107 was putting three capped and noodled stacks at IRI and with time for unintentional wheelie . In qualifying we put up four stacks of six two capped.
It is great to mentioned with the great teams being considered as top 5 teams.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Definitely deserved and not unnoticed, you guys had a great robot! Thanks for correct info, I knew it was getting better as the season moved along!

-Ronnie

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

We appreciate being noticed in the community in this way, I kept myself from posting Michigan's best because I knew that I couldn't be exactly impartial :D :D but I agree with this analysis.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

3641 absolutly blew me away at IRI, you were on fire. The first alliance was very smart to pick you up. Any talk of best Michigan robots that doesn't involve 3641 is incorrect.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Thanks, I would say it's due to me :D :cool: :D but it's a team effort, thanks for the compliment. :yikes: :D

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Florida now that I've seen most robots in the off-season:
1. 179
2. 2383
3. 233
4. 1592
5. 744

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

They were also one of the top 5 Curie robots, ending competition ranked 3rd

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

I remember glancing at the standings while walking through the pits several times and it seemed like they were leading the pack for quite some time. Great robot and great team.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Saw you guys practicing and competing at MSC and you were going a great job there too.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Tell that to all the landfill teams at worlds and IRI that were picked far before robots that could make more stacks from the feeder.
In general, 2-3 landfill stacks was more valuable than 3 feeder stacks, because there were significantly more robots capable of making 2-3 feeder stacks.
In the same vein, 3 stacks from the landfill was a much more difficult feat to accomplish (especially with limited visibility from stacks being placed and noodle throwing), so difficult that even your IRI championship alliance captains rarely cleared the landfill during eliminations.

Anyway, they're all very, very good teams. 126 points from the feeder vs. 84 from the landfill is extreme parity, and other attributes (can grabbers, capping ability, ability to use rightside-up and step can for stacks) would also factor in. There were a ton of good teams, though, and I think in any given match, many of them could outscore each other.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Careful, I don't think Picking order = robot skill in most cases. Sometimes (2009), maybe, but especially with the necessity of certain robot functions (canburglars, landfill/feeder station) in Recycle Rush sometimes the better robot would be passed up by a team since they aren't compatible. A better way to rate robots IMO would be by qualifying rank at events. This shows a more accurate rank of robot ability.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

FRC ranking systems are generally regarded as the least accurate rank of robot ability. 2015 is the exception rather than the rule... unless you happen to have had the great fortune to have been paired with an awful lot of good teams, when it's still highly inaccurate. I'd use OPR first, and I am not a fan of OPR in general. I'll save the gory details for "if you're still interested" on this one.



To add another item to Kevin's list: A landfill robot can, in a pinch, load from the feeder station (some caveats apply about totes landing properly, or using a long enough ramp). A feeder robot cannot load from the landfill if there's some sort of problem with the feeder station, in general. (I think 1197 could have made the attempt, but we never ran out of feeder station totes.)

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

When talking about MN powerhouses this year, many people miss 2883 FRED. They were a powerhouse up at Lake superior and they were a powerhouse that captained our Finalist alliance at the MN state championship this year.

FRED's improvements for state included adding a tethered ramp for state. With the tethered ramp, it allowed them to be capable of creating 2 capped/noodled 6 stacks. Unfortunately, there seems to be no video evidence of this(for some reason only a couple matches of the MN state championship were recorded). They also had a can grabber that they could take out of needed.

Here are some more robots that deserve to be mentioned/considered when talking about the top 5-10 for MN: 1816 and 4778.

1816 was picked 5th overall in curie, which is very impressive, and their can burgulars were always consistent. 4778 also made some improvements before MN state, they were a tote bot that put 15+ totes on the scoring platform almost every match at state.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

There were a ton of co-op specialists that found their way into the top 8 this year(or at least at MN regionals). Co-op inflated ranks this year, and put some teams in the top 8 that shouldn't of been there this year.

I understand that co-op specialists have other roles they can adapt to during eliminations as well, that may possibly make them an ideal teammate, but teams who do nothing but co-op during an entire regional, and end up in the top 8 usually end up unprepared to adapt to other roles during eliminations, which makes them an undesirable partner for eliminations.

Co-op sort of made this year's ranking system a little unreliable for some cases.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Disregarding my team due to my own internal bias. I would put 233 above 2383 I would actually put 1592 above them as well.

I would go:
233
1592
2383
744/1523 depending on how you are judging.

233 was consistently making atleast 2 stacks so was 1592. 2383 when last I saw them was limited to 2 stacks max a match.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Ok, I hadn't seen too much of 233, and they weren't as big in iri as I thought they would be. I put 2383 above 1592 because I felt their auto was a bit more consistent.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

2883 in a match at MSHSL. They would have easily had 2 full stacks if that pesky 4536 team hadn't needlessly knocked over an RC.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Thanks for finding a match of them.

Yeah.. 2883 has trouble righting sideways cans. Our robot has trouble with that as well.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Definitely not a unique problem. As part of our offseason modifications we just gave up the ability to right a can altogether.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Yeah, a very common problem this year.

Did you guys give up on the ability to right a RC because you guys thought it would be too time consuming and too annoying to align the robot in position to up right the RC?

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

The changes we wanted to make to our intake subsystem required those extra flaps on our elevator to get out of the way. We looked into alternate ways of righting cans (the 2056 and the 1114 methods), but couldn't make either one quite work with our machine. We figured we weren't missing out on much for the reasons you said - if we had to take the time to line up and right the can, chances are we weren't gonna be able to put that on top of a stack as well in the same match.

The IRI rule changes also convinced us there were enough cans upright out there that it would be fine, so we made sure to work on our autonomous to minimize the chances of a can falling over at the beginning of a match.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Nobody has posted for Louisiana yet. The clear top LA robot was our alliance partner, 3039, Wildcat of Destrehan. Leaving out teams with which I have an association, either through personal or family involvement, it's not too difficult to pick four more. Their relative ranks are close enough that I'll sort them by team number rather than by rank:
1912, Team Combustion, across town in Slidell.
3606, Bear Metal, Baton Rouge
3616, Team Phenomenon, Lafayette.
4085, Team Borg, New Orleans

And for those who may not know how to pronounce city names in Louisiana:
Destrehan: all short vowels. Primary emphasis on first syllable, secondary on last. DES tru Han.
Slidell: long i, short e. Emphasis on first syllable. SLAI dehl.
Baton Rouge: It's French. Bah - toh(n) Roozh
Lafayette: Lafay rhymes with "taffy". Primary emphasis on first syllable, secondary emphasis on last: LAHF - ee - Et
New Orleans: Emphasis on the middle syllable, no long "e"s anywhere. A city this big accepts a bit of variation. Acceptable pronunciations can be found in the songs "New Orleans ladies", or "Walking to New Orleans", or the first mention in House of the Rising Sun (There is a house in New Orleans), but definitely NOT the later lyric in House of the Rising Sun that rhymes with "SEWED my NEW blue JEANS." New Orleanians are generally accepting of people from out of town, but "NEW orLEENS" may rank you below (Atlanta) Falcons or (Chicago) Bears fans!

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

no, it's BearMetal. 2046 is Bear Metal :P

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Your 5s were incredibly good, that is why I said that your mechanism was good, as it always is and you had matches where, while you did not drop any stacks you did tip up off your back wheels for a second. I am a huge fan of y'all's, always have been. Personally, I would have loved to have seen you in the finals of Peachtree, it would have been a much harder match to win. On the flip side of the stability coin, at least you never fell over. To be fair, I would have ranked you #1 if not for the few stability issues I saw. This game relied so much on being fast and stable that just a few wobbles knocks down the rankings. One other thing that would have boosted any robot in my rankings is auto, can robbers or 3 tote stack. You had the mechanical ability to do a 3 tote auto easily, but I never saw it.

Quick Edit: Perhaps it was nervousness or trying to go too fast and the drivers got calmed down by champs. I would have gone to watch some of the other SC teams but some little demon got into our robot while it was in the shipping crate and we had to fix multiple things at champs. (which was a surprise because we did not have to fix anything during both regionals)

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Ummmm, 343 has 2 banners from this year and 283 has 1.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

You guys were AMAZING at IRI. If I recall, you were the first to get 3 stacks out of the landfill, putting to shame many of the elite landfill bots who underperformed for most of the event. My personal ranking for Florida would go like this:

1. 179
2. 1592, for their impressive landfill abilities. Those claw shooter can pullers were pretty cool too, too bad they didn't get to use them much :D
3. 233, a strong team as always with consistency out of the feeder and some potential at the landfill.
4. 2383, for a pretty good robot overall. Their consistency was questionable, but they generally performed very well.
5. 744, they were pretty good at IRI. I didn't really believe in that whole 2-tote-at-a-time thing but they showed it was doable, and could be productive to an alliance.

I don't know anything about 1523, but I've heard good stuff about them.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

This year in particular, qualifying rank was NOT a good measure because coop points were so important. The better initial ranking is OPR net of coop OPR. But then you still need to look at the components of the OPR. In addition, can grabbing as the only true defensive act comes into play as well.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

I just wanted to take a moment to add onto this. I've worked the Colorado Regional for the past four years and ever since 4499 joined the region they've been one of my favorite teams. They build solid robots that fill roles that other teams didn't focus on, and they execute it well. At a regional dominated by two feeder station robots (1619 and 1730), it was fun to see a solid landfill bot (and I would have loved to see the three of them play together).

And then on top of all of that, they're a fantastic team as evidenced by 2 RAS awards in 2013, Engineering Inspiration from Inland Empire in 2014, and then the Chairman's Award from Colorado in 2015.

They may be young, but this is definitely a team to watch out for in the future.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Thanks Kevin for the in depth post. It means a lot to us that someone has been keeping up with us; we're glad our efforts to be different haven't gone unnoticed. Thank you so much for volunteering. Your kind words have an impact on our team.

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

If I had to take a shot at California, it would go something like this...
1. 254 " The Cheesy Poofs"
2. 1678 "Citrus Circuits"
3. 3476 "Code Orange"
4. 971 "Spartan Robotics"
5. 1671 "Buchanan Bird Brains"
Some honorable mentions...
701" The Robovikes"
2085 " The Robodogs"
973 " The Greybots"
330 " The Beach Bots"

Re: Top 5 robots in each state
 

Why thank you! I wasn't on the team last year, I'm hoping we make it to worlds again this year... I don't do much with the bot though. Scout, Chairman's, and other business stuffs.