State Power Alliances 2015
 

In the general them of this thread from 2014, but not limited to robots that attended championships, what would be the power alliance from your state/province/country in 2015? It may not be the best three robots in a state, but instead the three robots that compliment each other best, can put up the highest scores, or win the majority of finals matches.

In New York, I'd have to say 340-5254-1507 would be our best possible alliance.
340 makes 2 stacks from the feeder station, and can cap any stacks of 5 made by either 5254 or 1507 that are without containers for whatever reason, as well as grab 2 containers from the step faster than nearly any other robot in the state
5254 makes 3 stacks from the feeder station,
1507 hits their 3-tote auto, and makes a few stacks from the landfill. They can also grab a container off the step during teleop if necessary.

What's your state's power alliance?

EDIT:
There might be slightly different alliances for qualifying rounds vs. Eliminations rounds as well. For example, I might switch 340 for 263 during qualifying rounds, since can grabber speed is less necessary, and 1507 might be able to grab the additional necessary cans for the match, or 1507 for 329 if the tote stack auto was less important (or didn't work with 5254's ramp) than a really fast can grab in eliminations. Feel free to post both the eliminations version and the qualifications version of your state's alliance.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

For Michigan it could be 33, 107, 1918.

33 puts up 2-3 six stacks with RC, one of them will have litter, from the landfill

107 puts up 2-3 six stacks with RC and litter, from the chute door(Yes, chute door).

1918 has RC burglers, and can put up 2 six stacks with RC and litter, from the human player station.

Only thing I would change, cheesecake RC burglers on to 33 if the dont have them already.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

for the PNW (its a state, don't argue.):
1983
2930
955

OR just 1983 and 1318.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

For Missouri:

1730: 2-3 6-stacks With RC from HP station
1986: 2-3 6 stacks with RC from Landfill
1987: Puts out a wall of stacks of 4-6 totes from HP station, but needs to be capped.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

New Hampshire has a few interesting combos.

319: I'd put them on the power alliance first since they bring The most bag of tricks up their sleeves (hence why I call their robot The Leatherman). Primarily a landfiller this year they started playing around with a ramp recently for HP feeding making them adaptable to play either role depending on who the other two robots are.

1519: With 319 taking the HP slot/left overs from the landfill 1519 can run their can burglars and work on the landfill. With 1519's 3 tote autonomous being one of the most consistent of the year they could run theirs instead of 319s but it takes a set of can arms off the step.

3467: HP stacker and runs can burglars in autonomous with 1519. Makes a few tall stacks in their corner HP slot and caps stacks as needed. Uses the tipped over RCs which are more of a hassle for MAYHEM and B.O.B.

Alternatives:

1058 could easily replace 3467 if can arms weren't a desire and crank out 1-2 full stacks from their corner.

95 can also replace 3467, grab 1 RC in auto, and then run with their GSD strategy of 1519 making stacks and 95 playing the capper.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

In Michigan:

If reliability isn't a concern:
2054: 28 point auton, 3x capped and noodled six stacks from the left feeder station
67: very fast canburglars, 3x capped and noodled stacks from the right feeder station, can pick up a downed RC
33: up to 3 capped six stacks, can reach containers on the step in teleop, and if 2054 takes care of auton, maybe grab a RC in auton. they would run out of cans on this alliance, so the score would be limited.

But, because reliability is a concern, and the above teams were inconsistent at times here is my actual selection:

1023: 20 point auton, 3x capped and noodles stacks from the left feeder station. Very consistent.
548: Fast canburglars, 3x capped and noodled five stacks, sometimes a fourth uncapped, mostly from the right feeder station. When the feeder station is empty goes to the landfill. Can upright RCs easily. On this alliance they would have to move to landfill only and get 1x capped and noodled five stack, and another 2 or 3 uncapped 5 stacks.
2137: decent canburglars, 2x capped and noodled 6 stacks from the right feeder station. I'm not sure if they ever demonstrated the ability to get a third capped and noodled six stack from the landfill, but I think they could. If not, 548 would use that RC.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I would do this:

1023: 20 pt auto, 3 capped 6 stacks, good noodle thrower

1918: 2 capped 6 stacks, fast can burgulars

548: 2 capped 5 stacks from land fill, fast can burgulars

1023 and 1918 will clear out the chute totes, 548 can landfill. 1918 and 548 are two of the faster can grabbers that are able to stack the cans after getting them.

302 points with 7 cans (no noodles thrown)
250 with 5 cans (no noodles thrown)

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I'll format in a bit.

Texas:
118-148-3310

118 would easily clear the landfill, and if they could tether a ramp to 148, make a 4th stack from the feeder station (though with this alliance, probably unnecessary). Their key role however, would be their can dom game in auto, demonstrated effectively at the championship.

148 would be the feeder station and auto extraordinaire. Capable of 3+ stacks consistently, they would be the rock holding the alliance average up, and the stacks would all be noodled as well.

3310 is what gives this alliance the edge over the other states/regions though. With their lightning fast can grab, it would be tough to beat these guys to the step. Cherry on top is that they're pretty dang good at stacking from the station too.

One thing that allows this alliance to perform at their best is the fact that the primary stackers both prefer their cans fallen over, so no time is wasted trying to pick them back up.

Simply trying to figure max point counts in this game is slightly irrelevant because of how important those cans are, so that was one of the first things I looked for in this alliance.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I mean IMO (as a non-Michiganer), any MI alliance without 33 isn't as good as it could be, because 33 is the only MI bot I know of capable of making three stacks from the landfill. It might seem crazy to leave 1023 out of the ideal MI alliance, but if you want two fast canburglars, the MI alliance might be 33-548-1918. Or 67. 67's canburglars were wicked fast at worlds, beating 3339 to the cans every time they raced.

Michigan (as always) has a ton of really powerful potential alliances to choose from. (27 could easily end up in some really cool alliance, considering their fast canburglars as well).
33-27-67 would be a crazy alliance along those lines (one of our scouting notes about 67 in Carson was how fast they were at stacking compared to how long it took them to acquire cans).

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I agree but if you are playing IRI or ChezyChamps rules 624 replaces 3310.

I would like to see 118-148-1296 as well just because the doable tether bots would fun to watch.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I agree 100% 33 is the best landfill team from Michigan. If they could beat 548 to two cans in auto, I would take them.

1918 was much faster at champs with the can burglars, they could have been higher pick at MSC with that speed.

I don't see any power alliance leaving out 1023, they just dominated Michigan from week 1 to champs with their consistency and scoring. I would pick 107 for a replacement for the auto and stacking ability.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Virginia runs into a huge problem in that we have no real can burglars... But if that's not a problem somehow then 2363 on the landfill and we can get cans off in tele-op (this isn't optimal but we have no landfill bots that cap their own stacks), 384 and 623 on the human player stations.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

107 also has a 20pt auton that went 12 for 12 at the world championships.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Totally forgot about 1023 *fasepalm*. I might replace 107 with 1023. Because 1023 also had a 20 point auton. They could really be interchangeable. Or if the thread was doing alliances like at worlds champs (four teams on an alliance) have all of them.

Also for a four team alliance I would add 4967(the team i'm on). Not just because I could, but because our team has a decent landfill bot(1-2 six stack with RC and litter plus any extra we can do) but also because our drive team has really good strategy's that we can used in multiple different situations. We also have a four tote landfill auton, so while another team does there 20 point auton, we are still setting up for telop.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

This isn't any easier than the top 5 teams from your state...

Notes:
1. I'm assuming 254 could do LF only if they wanted (as far as I know, they never have, but I'm also pretty sure 1678/971/1671/3476 do HP only).
2. I still cannot figure out if 973 counts as northern or southern CA--they're basically right between San Jose and LA.
3. For 3476+973+1717/3309, I'm assuming 973 does HP, but for 254+1678+973 I'm assuming they do LF.
4. To create the alliances, I prioritized getting one LF bot / two HP, two 2C autos, and then stacking ability. For IRI/CC changes, I changed it to one 2C auto and put stacking ability higher.
5. This was the data I used to decide on the alliances. I'm not sure how accurate it is for the teams I haven't seen in person (especially those in southern CA).

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Here are my thoughts for CT:

195 CyberKnights
As the king of stacking for New England, its impossible to leave the CyberKnights out of this alliance. 3 six stacks, all capped and noodled.
Furthermore, they undoubtedly have the fastest canburglar in CT.

2067 Apple Pi
I'll try not to be biased toward my own team :P
In the landfill, 2067 can do two capped six stacks. It's not 100%, but I think its good enough to be the choice for the landfiller.
Additionally, 2067 can grab cans in auto. Its fairly quick, though not nearly as fast as 195.

Third robot is trickier; there are multiple contenders. I'll give three candidates:

2836 Team Beta
Consistent two six stacks from the human player. Their consistency in what they do has paid off, helping them to earn the #1 seed in Galileo and #1 at CT champs.

2170 Titanium Tomahawks
Another human player robot capable of two six stacks. The Titanium Tomahawks have really had a good season with this nicely performing machine. Since they do the same thing as Beta, I guess it comes down to which one performs more consistently.

228 GUS
GUS started off with a rough season, but has gotten really good recently. They are capable of at least two six stacks, though they sometimes drop them, probably more frequently than 2836/2170. However, in a good match, they can really shine. In 2836/3647's battlecry match with their 10 stacks, you can see 228 quietly working on the other side of the field. That match, they put up three capped six stacks. I havent seen enough matches to know how often 228 can do two, or how often they can do three, but I'd say they're definitely a contender for this power alliance.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

As great as 1987 is, I'm not sure they fit on that alliance. There's nobody to cap them, and only 12 totes left in the HP station for their wall of stacks after 1730 makes 3 six stacks. Having the R-7 Alliance on an alliance would be awesome, though.

My opinion for Missouri:

1730: 3 six stacks with noodles from human station, 20 point auto

1986: 2 six stacks from landfill, steal 2 cans in auto

4522: 2 four stacks from human station, steal 2 cans in auto

IRI / CC rule change: Switch 1806 or 1658 for 4522. They could make 3 noodled six stacks from the HP station without competing with 1730 for cans and totes.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Not that I'm from Missouri (Does being from Kansas count? :rolleyes:), nor do I have something against 1987's amazing robot, but I would say that 1658 fits better with 1730 and 1986, since 1658 is almost identical to 1730. Both of them can take the HP stations while 1986 clears out the Landfill and grab some cans during Auto.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I'll take a shot at IN.

234 - 2 capped 6-stacks from HP station

1024 - see strategy below

1720/1741/71- all would be good for the strategy below, although 71 and 1741 stack slightly faster

Strategy:

234 does their thing and makes their HP stacks, 1024 makes capped and noodled stacks of 2. During this, the alliance landfill bot makes stacks of 4 for 1024 to make 6-stacks out of (1024 already does stack 4 and place 2 and a container on top)

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I didn't watch much of 67 in St. Louis. If they were able to get reliability up then I would do 1023-548-67.

I might also consider 503 in the third position depending on the landscape of the event. They are the fastest canburglars in MI as far as I know, and if a choke hold strategy is viable then I would pick 1023-548-503.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I would like to add team 829 to the list of third pick bots. They did rather at all four events in the state.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Here's my thinking about MAR:

If feel that any MAR alliance without 1640 isn't really doing as best it can. They bring a pretty quick canburgular and an upside of 3 stacks from the human player station.

There are only really two dominant landfill robots from MAR: Vulcan Robotics and TechFire. As far as I (and my scouting data) can tell; Vulcan comes out ahead in pure points scored, but TechFire has the advantage when it comes to being a great 3rd partner, facilitating high scores by human player stackers on their alliance and having a slightly faster canburgular. I think that 225 would edge out 1218 for the landfill spot on a MAR alliance.

As for the last robot, it would have to feed from the human player, and preferably either have a 20 pt autonomous or canburgulars (this allows this alliance to fight over all 4 cans and go for a 20pt auto). Efficiency with cans is desirable as usual, with extra importance because of the likely ability of this alliance to use all 7 cans. Also, there are only 5 stacks of totes behind the alliance wall, so a robot capable of >2 stacks isn't better than one capable of exactly 2 stacks (given 1640 running 3 stacks). Of the high tier HP loaders in MAR, I can only think of 3 robots that fulfill these requirements pretty reasonably. 303 (incredibly consistent 2 stacks from HP station), 2607 (3 tote auto?), 219 (Center canburgulars). 303 would make the alliance incredibly consistent, but the highest upside for the alliance would come with 2607, for whom my data says 2 stacks of 6 is a stretch, but doable.

Final decision: 1640, 225, 303

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

It's okay, neither can we.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

829 was an HP bot though, so they wouldn't mesh well with a 234-1024 alliance.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Thank you for putting 1640 on your MAR alliance. Just a afterthought add on a 20 pt. autonomous.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

All right then...

Which side of the Grapevine (just to pick a dividing point) do you attend the most events in? We'll just toss ya in that group until you attend more on the other side.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

4587 has been wanting to see if it would be possible to run with 148 all season. Maybe this summer?

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

why have 3 feeder station robots when you could have 1318 or 2471? I'd pick Mean Machine over IRS just because they can cap if needed, and I think their canburglar's a bit faster
also 4488 is a bit better than 955, and could get the 4th can (i'd keep skunks around to manage the downed containers)

the thing about the PNW is that we didnt have an over powered landfill bot (a 1114, 1717, 118 type robot), and the robot you pick there determines a lot of your other strategy. I would prefer a PNW alliance completely different from yours, although both could be quite strong

Left feeder: 4488. best robot in the PNW, fast canburglar too. their need for upright containers is their only real flaw
Landfill: 4911. by Champs, they had a 2 can burglar that was faster than 2471's, and can get 2 uncapped stacks of 6 from the landfill and still have some capping time. their noodle thrower is also quite talented
Right Feeder: 948. yes, 955 can pump out more stacks. but this alliance doesnt need that. with 3 cans used by 4488 and 1 for 4911, to optimize point values, having the 3 point auto makes more sense- 92 points for two noodled stacks of 5 and an auto stack, compared to 84 points for 2 stacks of 6.

with all 3 cans that they go for burgled, this alliance could score 272 points before noodles

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I agree with your first pick, although 4488 performs much better on the right feeder for obvious reasons.

I don't agree with your landfill pick for 2 reasons, the first is that 4911 doesn't produce 2 capped stacks consistently, and second is that 2471 is at least 200ms faster into the cans than 4911 was. 4911 wasn't even close to Mean Machine in terms of speed. Also, 4911 was a single can grabber, whereas 2471 was a 2 can grabber.

948 will provide the auto, but little else the alliance needs. This third bot would preferably be able to play with tipped over cans, and create 2 of their own capped stacks. 948 doesn't do tipped over bins and rarely (ever?) did 2 full stacks. 1983 would be my pick here. They consistently do 2 stacks, capped and noodled, provide decently quick can grabbing ability, and are extremely reliable.

Left: 1983
Mid: 2471
Right: 4488

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I agree. We attended two district events and DCMP with 303, and I can count on one hand the number of times the number of times they didn't score at their peak ability (2 capped 6-stacks at DCMP).

2590 deserves an honorable mention. At North Brunswick, they consistently scored 2-3 capped six stacks from the HP station. However, after North Brunswick they became less consistent. Both 303 and 2590 have phenomenonal machines, and on the same alliance at North Brunswick they emptied their Human Player stations.

Now for some state alliances.

Based on what I said right there, my NJ alliance would be 303, 2590 (making ~5 capped 6-stacks between them), and 1923 (because wicked fast canburglaring, with some landfill stacking ability).
My Eastern PA alliance would be 1640 (best human player stacker in MAR, stacked tote auto, canburglars), 225 (amazing landfill stacker, stacked tote auto, canburglars), and 2607 (strong HP bot).

My Delaware alliance would comprise 365, 1370, and 4954. Mainly because I don't know anything about the fourth Delaware team :P

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Just a note 4911 had a fairly fast 2 rc grabber at champs that nearly got their alliance into finals. They were a 3rd pick due to some unlucky qualification match pairings. They only got to play one elimination match, but beat the other robot to the cans and got both.

My ideal alliance would be 4488, 3663, and 2471. I picked this alliance to maximize scoring, and consistency. 3663 and 4488 tied in PNW for the farthest playing team in worlds this year as division finalists. Both are very consistent, and both have can grabbers. 2471 has a 2 can grabber that is also fast. 4488 would put up three stacks of 6 capped and noodled. (They could start by grabbing a rc in the middle or by the right feeder station depending on the alliance being played...) 3663 would take the left station and one rc from in front of it, creating two stacks one capped and noodled and one not. 2471 would place on more can for 4488 to use and then make one stack of their own, cap it, then cap 3663 second stack. The remaining rc (if in possession) would be put on the highest stack remaining. Once 3663 is done with the second stack they can go and do a 4-6 high stack from the landfill.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

a few problems with this, at least for me. the first is that your entire alliance has issues with downed containers (which was the main reason I chose 4911 over 2471; I've seen them handle the cans better overall than Mean Machine). While they had a great robot, the main reason CPR advanced so far into playoffs was their brilliant scouting, allowing them to create a super solid alliance in one of the strongest divisions; keep in mind that 492 technically placed higher, qualifying for Einstein (even if they never played a match on there), and that was because they were on the best team in their division. Also CPR would have neither the time nor the ability to go from the Landfill (I have gone to every event they have, and they have never done landfill). for your alliance, I feel like the Skunks would make more sense (assuming you want all 4 containers, if not, 955)

[quote=Dunngeon] "I agree with your first pick, although 4488 performs much better on the right feeder for obvious reasons."
I was visualizing the feeder stations from the step, not behind the alliance wall, sorry for the confusion
[quote=Dunngeon] "948 will provide the auto, but little else the alliance needs. This third bot would preferably be able to play with tipped over cans, and create 2 of their own capped stacks. 948 doesn't do tipped over bins and rarely (ever?) did 2 full stacks."

I was relying on 4911 to right containers in the way my team did for CPR and 255 did for 4488, eliminating that issue. also, having been the lead scout for my team, I watched every match on Curie, and seem to remember them doing 2 capped 5 stacks in tele during elims, and 1+ during Quals (since they did co-op instead)... I have some evidence here (although my team unfortunately stole all their containers, so only one stack is capped) http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2015cur_sf1m1 these appear to be 6 stacks, too, which makes my argument for them even better :P Skunks are a good pick too, though

(sorry, havent figured out multi-quoting)

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Indiana would probably be 234 or 135 and 1024 at HP. Then landfill would probably be 1720 or 71. Maybe even 1741 at landfill too. My thoughts would be 234-1024-1720

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

On a whole league stand point, the best alliance would be 254-148-1114 to me.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

FIM was strong as ever this year, but almost all of the top teams were HP fed (1023, 548, 1918, 67, 469, 3641, 2137, 68, 217, 314, 2054, and 1025). The only member of the "elite" FIM teams taking from the landfill was 33, so they are the first selection.
33: 2-3 stacks from the landfill, ability to grab RCs from the step missed by others in auton, 20 point auto.

Now that I have my 20 point auto and a landfill miner, I need Canburglars and HP feeding for the next alliance member. This leaves 548, 1918, 67, 2137, and 217.

548: First choice due to reliability, by worlds they were grabbing two step cans and making 4 stacks of 5 from the HP station.

I am tempted to pick one of the other 4 for the final position, but assuming 548 plays up to potential, that leaves only 10 totes for the other robot from the HP. With so many FIM robots able to do this, Canburglar speed is far more important. This leaves me with 503 and 27.

503: The super fast Canburglar puts them on this alliance, but also the ability to stack the last 10 totes from the HP.

So 33, 548, and 503 would be my the ultimate Michigan Power Alliance.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Now thats another interesting idea- best alliance in the world.
The problem with 254-148-1114 is that a) there are faster canburglars than both 254 and 1114's, and they run out of totes far too quickly! (Good problem to have).

The best alliance in the world should probably have the fastest canburglars, so probably some combination of Group A and Group B:
A: [67, 548, 971, 973, 1678, 1918, 3310] (Good Human Player Robots with some of the fastest can grabbers in the world)
B: [33, 118, 254, 1114] (Landfill Robots capable of 3+ stacks/match and a 20 point auto)

There's also something to be said for a robot like 225 that can use step totes during teleop (for an alliance like 1114-148 that could use all of the other totes), or for cappers like 27 that can augment another robot's abilities on the right alliance.

With IRI rules, speed no longer matters, so your best alliance changes as well. I'd argue that:
254-148-225 would be the best possible alliance under these circumstances, as 148 and 254 together can probably clear out the entire landfill and feeder station together, and 225 can grab step totes and help with the landfill if necessary.

Did any really good robot this year use upside-down totes?

EDIT: I stand corrected on the subject of can grabbing. 254's were ridiculously fast (I'm told they were the same ones 973 and 971 were using).
In which case I think the best alliance in the world would be 254-1114-225, considering between 1114 and 254, they can clear out the landfill and human player station, as well as have tons of can grabbing ability and a 3-tote auto. They also get step totes from 225.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

IMO, I would say for MN it would be 3130 at landfill, 2512 at human player position, and 2502 at the other human player position. 3130 could get 2 bins off of the step, and with 2512's stacking autonomous that could probably beat any other alliance in Minnesota.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

They would probably run out of totes to stack...

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I was thinking of that as well. 2512 would take out their can burglars if push came to shove for cans from the STEP. 3130 has can burglars but they have to drive back to get them(Reliable but sometimes not fast enough, part of the reason they didn't use it at champs in eliminations was because it wasn't fast enough. That's why they picked 3310 with their quick can burglars instead of running their own at champs).

This alliance would be a factory to watch honestly.. the top 3 robots in MN in one alliance.. haha

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

For MAR PA, 1640 + us to get the step cans, or one robot gets one set of cans and the other does a 20 point auto. The 3rd bot could be either 2607 or 1218 with a ramp to finish out the feeder station.

For NJ, besides those previously mentioned, I think 1403 is in the conversation--they were doing 3 stacks of 5 at district events, and they were pushing sixes at MAR champs. Also, 316 was consistently doing 2 stacks of 5 + noddle and 1 uncapped stack of 6 by the end of MAR champs.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

OR we could give our can burglars to someone else.... :D

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

There is only one (technically 2) robot in the world faster than 254's can grabbers and that is 1678. I'm not counting the harpoons for this, since they are a totally different strategy.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Anybody have this list with number of cans they grab cause unless you swipe 3 the score can be evened up.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I'm not sure ours were faster than 254's grabbers, we never went head to head. Even if the times you quoted are 100% accurate (which they're not), winning isn't about getting to the cans, its about getting the cans away from the other guys.

Maybe we'll do a can drag (literally!) race at Chezy Champs or Capital City Classic?

-Mike

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

we couldn't take them, we have a ramp... #teamtether:D

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Please tell me you have been keeping that Cheesecake refrigerated... It would be a little rancid by now otherwise. :D

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

1. 254 was 100% LF at CVR. They added a ramp at SVR. We ran with 254 like we did with 118. It's a tough choice between 1671 and 971 (and now you can see why we were so happy to get 1671.)
2. Put 973 wherever you want--they do that already! ;)

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

You might want to re-watch CVR.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I just dont know about 1720 and 71. Both are EXCEPTIONAL landfill bots, but if you look at stacking ability at worlds, I think 1741 out-stacked both of them (Newton QF5 especially)

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I thought 254 fed almost exclusively from the human player at CVR, using their old intake system.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I'd imagine it would be an issue. Though there are a few possible options here:

1086: IMO best landfill bot in Virginia. Especially as time progressed, their drivers (only juniors btw), improved significantly and can now do at least three four or five stacks, depending on their partners.

2363/384: Although I would take 2363 just based on more driver experience this year (Chesapeake), both teams are interchangeable and highly effective at making capped six stacks.

1885/540 That's where the VA canburglars are. Although I haven't seen enough matches to truly gauge their effectiveness, I know that they made the playoffs in Carson and did well at Pittsburgh and Greater DC. They can cap 1086's stacks and clean up the cans 2363/384 doesn't use. 540 only has a one canburglar unfortunately, but we can also quickly grab cans off the step and cap stacks during tele-op as well.

You're right that the state does lack major canburglar power though. However, there are multiple options for a powerful alliance.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

You're right, I had it backwards. 254 added the LF capability at SVR and a ramp.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I didn't see 1741, 1720, or 71 at worlds (more than maybe a passing glance), but here's my take:

At ISC, I think personally 1720 was the best, but 71 was a little more consistent (probably why they were picked by 3rd seed 1501). 1741 was definitely the best at getting cans from the step accurately with the claw. As far as worlds goes, it looks like 1720 had the edge again given that they had the highest average of the three teams and seeded 6th in Newton (same division as 1741). For these reasons I feel like 1720 would be the best fit for an Indiana alliance, but that being said I did not see the teams enough at worlds to make the best judgment.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

For IL:
2481/1756/2451: 2481 is an incredible landfill bot, 1756 has a very consistent 20pt auto and ramp loads 3 6 stacks (sometimes a 7 :D ) and 2451's energy chain can pullers and ramp-less feeder stacking rounds out the alliance well.
MI, just my speculation:
A 1023/548/503 alliance would have 2 of the fastest can pullers in the world, which helps. 503 handles landfill while 1023 and 548 do their thing. 503 would fight the can wars- the fishing line thing is too useful to let it go to waste (see Archimedes SF2).

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Whoops, I forgot about 1885 since i haven't seen them this year

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I will put them on my list for Quebec, as they were at Montreal.

Anyways...

3360 : most efficient LF bot in Quebec, making 2 capped 6 stacks, and 20 points auton. Added can burglars at worlds.

2590 : Good HP bot. 2 capped 6 stacks almost every match, can pick upside down cans

3rd robot : pick any of these 2

3996 : Good HP bot, 2 capped 6 stacks added canburglars, but can't work with ramp when they use it, so they make +- 1 stack

3117 Good HP bot, 2 capped 5-6 stacks.

total of either :

6 stacks with 20 point auto and 2 cans;
5 stacks with 20 point auto and 4 cans;
6 stacks with 4 cans in auto;

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Will raise you one and will say the best Ontario alliance could be 1114-2056-1325 would be a mighty close second place.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

2 landfill bots? or are you suggesting that 1114 or 2056 uses their tethered ramp? ;)

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

1114 and 2056 were together at waterloo and they used a tethered ramp, in fact they used 2 tethered ramps. I think this alliance would still work out fine and be a high scoring one even though it has 2 landfill bots(1114 and 2056 worked fine together in waterloo).

#TetherCompatibility2Strong

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

If 1325 had the weight for one of 1114 or 2056's ramps that would be perfect.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Even if they don't, 2056/1114 make a tote ramp for the one side.

This alliance would put up, say 7 - 6 stacks conservatively. With that number going up to 9 easily, possibly one more.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

For Massachusetts:

125: At Champs they could put up 2-3 six stacks from their HP station with their feed-through-the-back-style intake. Also has super fast tennis ball can grabbers in auto.

2877: Another feeder station bot, 2877 can contribute 2 capped and noodled 6-stacks from their feeder station.

246: Landfill bot that can do 1-2 five-stacks capped and can grab 1 can in teleop if needed with their "scorpion" arm.

1768 could replace 2877 as a HP bot and still contribute 2-3 five stacks capped with litter. Also has a center can grabber that grabs 2 cans in auto.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

You're being modest. Until unseated, the crown for fastest in MI goes to 548. The side-by-side in the qualifying match we played together at MICMP was a virtual tie, but you guys were in the hole just ahead of us.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Okay, upon re-watching a lot of match video of all three teams, Ive come to this conclusion (not including can grabbing because all three teams have very accurate 1-can grabbers):

1720- Definitely the best IN landfill bot if you are looking for large amounts of points.
Biggest advantage: Fast tote intake
Biggest disadvantage: slow(ish) lift
Max. scoring ability: 2 36-point stacks

1741- Container specialist that can also stack from landfill
Biggest advantage: Able to cap stacks of 6
Biggest disadvantage: Rear 4-bar arm makes maneuvering the left landfill difficult once stacks start going up.
Max. scoring ability: 1 36 point stack and a stack of 4

71- Very good all-around landfill bot. Most consistent of the three robots
Biggest advantage: Faster lift
Biggest disadvantege: Their containers tend to roll of of their stacks
Max. scoring ability: 1 capped 4-stack and an uncapped stack of 5

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I definitely agree with this. 1720 was also sort of slow to take the stack to the scoring platform if I remember right. 71 could also usually do 2 4-stacks capped but as you said, if they were not completely still, bins would roll. I know at IN District Championships, 1741 would usually just make 1 stack of 5 with bin and litter and then would usually spend the rest of the time capping everyone else's stacks. I believe that they are definitely capable of what you said they could do but I never saw them do that. I bet that's what they did at worlds.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I know that we haven't ever seen that alliance but i bet we will see plenty of 9 or 10 stacks at great events like IRI or Chezy Champs. Cant wait to see what these teams do in off season events.;)

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I think we will see 9 stacks on a field a few times.
We might see 10.
But "plenty" of matches with 9 or 10 stacks on the field is a little crazy, even for IRI or Chezy Champs. That requires you to have three robots on the field each capable of at least 3 stacks that don't interfere with eachother and perform well, and 10 stacks requires one of those robots to be capable of 4 stacks.
10 stacks means every rightside-up non-step grey tote is scored (including your extra HP totes). That's a lot of totes.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Yeah. Plenty was the wrong word. I meant that mostly for elims when you have 2 powerhouse teams per alliance and better 2nd and 3rd picks than in divisions at worlds.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

In their match with 1501 and 5188 at state champs, they played landfill and that was the match to set the high score in Indiana. Although they were best at HF the did do well in the LF

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I must have missed that. I never saw 829 at the landfill... but that'd be cool to see again.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

1741 seems like a good match.I didn't think hard on that. Forget 1024 capping. 234 can make 3 full stacks easily out of the hp (1 with bin. other 2 without bins.) then, 1024 makes 2 full stacks with bins. 1741 makes their 5 stack w/ bin and caps 234s other 2 stacks. Easy 246 points with litter in all bins and 20 points for auto if 234 auto works. If it was with 1720, then it would probably only be 5 full stacks and with 71, we would have only five stacks because i would probably want 1024 to cap 71s stacks to make 6 stacks. Never thought about 1741 like that... sounds awesome.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

So what Im hearing is... all IN IRI alliance? :p Also on that note, if that alliance happened during quals at IRI and coop happened + 234's auto , this alliance would score 306.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Ready for the schedule to come out... lol. I really am excited to see all the crazy events in the offseason...

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Yes we can landfill but we don't do it well :) HP is our thing.

I can't believe that you are leaving 447 out of the landfill group.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Can you explain why they should be in the landfill group (besides the fact that they are a landfill bot)

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

They are deceptively a smart team. There's a reason why they had led the number 8 alliance at Purdue to the finals and the number 5 alliance at Indianapolis to a win. 447 would have gotten our number 8 alliance into semi-finals at INDCP if we weren't disabled at the station with one more stack to go (and 234-1024-292 knocked more stacks down).

They basically mine the landfill, steal one of the bins, and build their stack. It's not much, but you have 1720 doing the same thing (albeit in a cleaner manner). At this point late in the season with the can stealers, they are somewhat rendered unable to build a stack, but so is 1720 if they can't speed up there can stealer.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

447 was a good landfill bot but they didn't show to be nearly as good as 1741, 1720, or 71. They were more of a good week 1 robot. They just didnt improve as much as the other bots did.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

If I remember right, 1501 was the leader of those alliances at those events. Don't get me wrong, 447 was a good robot. They complimented 1501 very well but I don't think they were the leader as far as the bot capabilities went.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

In CT I think that there are a couple teams up that could work.
#1 2168, 2067, 228

2168 can steal cans from middle and make stakes from landfill or use there ramp and go from human, i have seen them make two perfect stakes from landfill consistently and when they use there ramp i think they could make three perfect stakes if nothing goes wrong.

2067 can steal can from middle, as well as play with other alliances minds in auto, they make stakes from landfill consistently and they have they best human player there is for throwing noodles

228 can not steal cans, but they can consistently make three perfect stakes from human player and get on naked stake done as well. They also are able to stake faster than 195


my other alliance would be
#2 195 2067 228

195 can steal from middle and make three perfect stakes with 20 seconds to spare, they can right the cans with there ramp,

2067 can steal can from middle, as well as play with other alliances minds in auto, they make stakes from landfill consistently and they have they best human player there is for throwing noodles

228 can not steal cans, but they can consistently make three perfect stakes from human player and get on naked stake done as well. They also are able to stake faster than 195

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Is there proof of this somewhere?

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

At BattleCry i had three people time 228 and 195 and 228 was faster by 2 to 3 seconds.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

At Battlecry, IIRC, 228 only placed 3 capped 6 stacks 2 times.

195 Has been consistently been placing 3 6 stacks since week 5.

EDIT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN9DhyR3aFc

228: First tote fed: 130s Stack Placed:88s Stack Time: 42s

195: First tote fed: 112s Stack Placed: 86s Stack Time: 26s

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Seems like 195 is the faster staker.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Yes they may be the faster staker once they start to stake, but 228 can stake faster from once they get the can inside to when they place the stake down

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

From what I'm understanding of this conversation, when the vampires attack, I need to go to Connecticut.
Got it. :rolleyes:

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Yes, but not if you need something spelled correctly... Or, apparently, to determine which of something is faster. They seem to have a funky definition there which doesn't take reality into account.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Even if you feel that 228 could complete a stack faster than 195 under perfect conditions, you need to look at the facts.
195 consistently makes 3 six stacks in a typical match, capped and noodled.
228 does not. Your claim of 3 capped stacks + 1 uncapped just isn't true (if I understand your English correctly).

228 is a very good team, and we enjoyed playing with you at CT champs. But you can't really deny the reality here.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Yo mama.

An mi speling is fyn. ;)

And we can skip the trash talk. 195 and 228 have an opportunity to slug it out in Wolcott tomorrow, while the TorMentors knock all their stacks over.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

With 195's practice robot!

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Nope. It's Talon XVI's evil twin. It's already in Wolcott.

Waiting.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Oh jeez. I'm probably a few weeks behind. The mentors were preparing ours to go as well.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I believe yours is to be piloted by one of the two pre-rookie teams. They should be thrilled to have the use of such a fine machine.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Of course, you guys have the somewhat evil, extremely cool detaching hooks, which is a big bonus. Even if it partially caused our lowest scoring match of the season at the worst possible time, it was one of the coolest things I have seen this season.

where did that FRC humor thread go? Cause this would be the only funny thing in it :rolleyes:

I did an Illinois one earlier, but here's one for the Midwest (excluding MI)
2481: good can pullers, one of the best landfillers in the world. I haven't gotten to see their pullers myself, but I've heard a lot of really good things about them.
1756: good can pullers, can ramp load 3 6 stacks capped. They could also handle landfill, but both 2481 and 1756 would score the most points if 1756 stayed at their long ramp. Their ramp also folds up, so it won't be in the way of 2826's auto.
2826: by far the best auto in the world, possibly the best robot in the world. Nothing to explain here, they're incredible.

Every robot here is capable 3 6es capped, or more. Under IRI rules, a single alliance could have access to up to 9 cans, assuming the other alliance doesn't get theirs in auto, so there's potential for a ridiculous score. 2826 would have to be attached to 1756's ramp, but they showed off a tethered ramp in their pre-champs reveal, so I wouldn't be worried about a drop in performance. 1756 would take one of the preload cans, and the other would be placed sideways in the staging zone so they could get to it quickly after their first stack.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Any match video of this?

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

Don't tell anybody, but that was completely unintentional.

There's a right and left side to the hooks and they're removed for transport configuration. One pin in each on the field and they're ready to go. Because of some confusion in queue, they were switched. The pins didn't match the holes, and we incorrectly thought that was because something got bent in the previous match tug-of-war with 1538. The head ref was starting to get antsy about how long we were taking so I just shoved it down as hard as I could and hoped we'd hook the can and be out of there before anybody else had a chance to grab on. I didn't know that our HP was having the same problem on the other hook, or we might have put 2+2 together and figured out they were switched.

To make it even worse, we had shortened our go-forward distance to avoid interfering with 234's 20-pt auton, and something didn't work so we didn't move at all. We got down into the holes pretty quickly... and just sat there. The surgical tubing on the hooks is just to pull the arms back down under the height limit, they weren't intended to withstand the force of two robots pulling in opposite directions.

Either that, or it was all a diabolical ploy to bait an unsuspecting alliance into the most awesome tug of war of the season. I'll leave that up to the reader to decide.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

We were slightly suspecting... We delayed our auto because we didn't want to get into a tug of war with you guys, hoping you might miss one and we'd get it. Instead, you didn't move forward and then did some detaching hook magic to get the can again. We had never missed our 2-can auto until after that can war. We seriously thought you guys had just made the most brilliant strategic maneuver I've ever seen, but either way that was the best tug-of-war of the season, easily.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

That tug-of-war was good, but not the best. (IMO) The best involved 3310 and another team that I forget, they both hooked on to the same cans and their grabbers didnt release, so they got to spent the majority of the match in an epic tug-of-war.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

That was 5027. They were on our SVR alliance and they were using the hooks we left with them. No match video up yet on that one.

Re: State Power Alliances 2015
 

I forget, was there ever a 1678/3310 can battle? I'd be interested to see who would win that.