FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

After the district town hall meeting today we now know:

District Championship: College Park, Maryland, University of Maryland Xfinity Center (old host of the Chesapeake Regional)

District Events: 4 in VA (West, Central, North, East), 1 DC, 2 MD

The district events seem to have gone as expected, but the Championship seems a surprise to me. I was expecting VCU to host it.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Is this a new district for the 2016 season? or for a later season?

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

They have been talking about this for years....and years...They finally got
serious this past year about it. From what we've heard its supposed to
happen next year (2016) whether they are ready or not. DC and Md have been
ready for some time..Va. was the hold up. I haven't heard where the district
events will be yet. I have heard that the district championship is supposed
to alternate from year to year between VCU and U of Md.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Yes.

Presentation is available here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F3IhA6wftY

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I heard about the alternating as well. The championship was on the VCU calendar until very recently, but they were for Week 5 dates, which would be a pretty untenable situation. I didn't watch the webcast but I suspect the only thing locked in is a Week 6 DCMP and the locations for districts are unofficially locked in.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Looks like the tentative locations are Fairfax (GMU?), Richmond (VCU?), Blacksburg (VT?), Portsmouth-ish, DC, Baltimore, and Annapolis.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I hope to god that district triangle for the southeast isn't going to be in Suffolk/Isle of wight...

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Well for the Hampton Roads area 2363 was working on it being at Menchville, but they have a schedule conflict with it being there from what i understand. There are though a lot of large High schools in the area. At one time Patty Meade from Norfolk State University was talking about a event there...but i think she wanted to see a regional there...not districts. They do hold one of the FTC events there though. A very long time ago (like 8 or so years ago) someone from Old Dominion was talking about a event there...again i think it was for a regional.

In Suffolk you have three High Schools....Nansemond River...which isn't near
anything in the way of food or lodging, Kings Fork (which has a FTC team) while closer to food and lodging is still not really close to it and lastly Lakeland which isn't near much either. Nansemond River is home to FRC team 3168. Not mentioned are any of the private schools like Nansemond-Suffolk Academy which is just down the road from Kings Fork High.

In Isle of Wight only has Smithfield High which is about as close to food as Suffolk's Kings Fork high is...and lodging a even further away and not much of it. It would be better to look for something in Norfolk, Chesapeake or Va. Beach on the Southside. Across the James River you have Menchville, Warwick and Phoebus...and maybe some others. It might be possible to do something at Christopher Newport College if they could be talked into it.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

District Champ is locked it; Sally confirmed College Park.

I imagine they are close to locking in the sites as well.

As for locations, I seriously doubt that VCU will house a district event, because I heard that holding VARI was 200k+. I don't know of any high schools in the area that have been approached/are suitable, but it wouldn't surprise me at all (in fact I expect it) that the Arthur Ashe Center near the Diamond in Richmond will hold the district event.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

The concentration of 5 events (including the champs) in one small geographic location concerns me. Those teams could attend all their events and not have to travel.

Here is how I see a typical non-NOVA/DC/MD team trying to deal with the districts.
--1 event will be local (not sure if this will be true. They have not confirmed that geography will be a factor in adding teams to events)

--1 event will be a non-local event more than 2 hours away. travel will be required.

-- Champs. will require travel.

-- Worlds. Will require travel.

Champs MUST rotate to VCU for equity's sake.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

The event distribution matches the team distribution.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

My guess is that those triangles are guestimates, last I heard they are still deciding on locations.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Understood. This does not solve the inequity of the travel costs.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

You shouldn't be asking if it solves inequity of travel costs. You should be asking does this make it worse most teams. There will always be inequity of travel costs and Districts can either exacerbate it, be approximately neutral, or be better. I'd like to see us at least make an effort to be neutral for the majority of teams.

I guess, more importantly, we shouldn't be whining about inequity of travel but instead we should be figuring out how to help teams most negatively impacted by these changes.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

So I shouldn't point out the inherent inequity to VA teams? This doesn't make sense. For my team this change is going to add a significant financial burden. A quick ballpark figure is an extra $10k a year. I can't imagine how this is going to affect the smaller teams in my state.
I have two ideas to reduce travel costs.
1. give geographic priority to teams out of the DC metro area to their local events.
2. rotate the Champs between Richmond and MD on a yearly basis.

These seems simple enough.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I'd be curious how you derived that 10k number. Did it include DCMP? Was it based off a single regional season? So we can have some semblance of a useful conversation about this, I propose that we speak in terms of estimated cost per match. To compute this, I'd assume it'd involve estimating travel costs to the two geographically closest district events[1] then dividing by 24. Then we can compare this to your actual cost per match at your regionals from last year.

DCMP is, to me, more comparable to your CMP cost as, for many lower resourced teams, it's the culminating event of the season.


[1] From my research, most teams tend to go to the nearest districts if they only attend 2 events. If the area is dense enough to fill up it likely warrants an additional district.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

There is one issue with comparing it by cost per match, just because it is cheaper for each match doesn't mean it is cheaper in total. Districts are cheaper by cost per match, but actually more expensive in total in some cases, example below:

Regional
Local regional - 1st registration fee + no travel costs
Travel regional - 2nd registration fee + travel costs

District
Local district - 1st registration fee + no travel costs
Travel district - no registration fee + travel costs
DCMP - 2nd registration fee + travel costs

In the district scenario the total cost ends up being more because the team has to travel twice instead of once. This is not the case for all teams and obviously assumes they qualify for the DCMP. 2363 always had to travel twice and that won't change by moving to the district model so our costs will end up being equivalent.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Why must the minority of teams be catered to for "equity's sake?" The population central of teams in the district is far closer to the MD site than Richmond/VCU. Having the DCMP there makes a lot more sense for the district as a whole, even if it's not ideal for some teams. Why not leave it near the population center for utility's sake?

Yes, there are teams that end up paying more in travel costs when they move from one regional competition to competing two, three, or fours times in a district system. It really shouldn't be as surprising or as controversial that competing in more events ends up costing more money to sparsely located teams.

Also, competing at the DCMP is not a requirement. Technically, you don't even have to compete at two district events (though your initial registration fee buys you into two of them). You can still compete with a comparable travel budget to a regional system, if you so chose.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

There will perpetually be some give and take with district event locations. MAR is commonly in a situation where the population center of teams is not what many consider an acceptable distance from most events. It appears the case may be that Chesapeake districts may bias too much towards the population center of teams, which can stunt growth and potentially damage team presence in other areas. There is probably a litany of reasons that the Hampton Roads area isn't stacked with FRC teams like it probably should be when you consider the industry there, but a reason that wouldn't be out of the question would be the lack of an official FRC event in a top 40 MSA, a distinction it shares with around 5 others, a situation being rectified this coming season.

I think Chesapeake's setup is more favorable to all teams than other district setups when it comes to balancing distances and therefore travel for all teams, but adding an event around Charlottesville / Waynesboro / Staunton / Harrisonburg / Winchester or along the 95 corridor in Central to North Central VA would be a solid move. I imagine a "tentative" bias towards locations in NoVA stem from the willingness to work with facilities that have been used in official and unofficial capacities in the past. For instance, I hope the Patriot Center stays on as a district location because while it was a pretty pathetic regional location it could easily be the best district location in the system.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I guess the TL;DR - I don't care about 2 regional teams when they complain that they have to travel to their second district since the OVERWHELMING majority already have to travel and their costs for the part of the season that everyone gets (districts) will likely go down approximately $4000. I've included 2014 data backing my claim that a large percentage of teams attending only one event and incur travel costs already.

Of the 1258 (46%) teams that attended only one regional in 2014[1] (2709 total teams), 577 (~46% of the 1258) traveled more than 40 miles and thus likely incurred some sort of travel cost (likely hotel stay) for their first event. The big thing I'm trying to get at is that for many teams a single event is ALREADY incurring travel costs and we should be trying to locate districts to minimize that number when locating events.


Edit- I'm more than willing to provide json dumps of my data should you want to recreate it/play with it.

Edit2 - In case anyone is curious, there ARE who attend 2+ regionals and were within 40 miles of both, here's your list: [333, 353, 369, 371, 623, 907, 1230, 1389, 1796, 2421, 2964, 4456, 4464]

[1] This is the last year I have data handy for.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Not for nothing, but Matt Wilson, Matt Lythgoe, and myself all operate out of Virginia where over 2/3rds of teams only compete at one regional, according to my weird document of area statistics I updated earlier in the year.

It's also probably worth noting that both 1086 and 2363 do help and have relationships with teams who are these one event only teams. Teams the size of 422, 1086, and 2363 will likely rise to the challenge of extra fundraising necessary to continue operating in the new system but it's worthwhile to raise concerns for the teams who may have no idea any of this is even happening.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Georgia is also going to districts. Highly likely for 2016. Near certainty 2017. This is going to make it extremely difficult for our southeast friends that are not going to the district model to attend 2 events. It also means regional in SC & NC will be sort of land locked surrounded by districts. Sorry for the semi off topic semi rant.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I 100% agree with you. My point was, using cost-per-match to say that districts are cheaper is incorrect. However, I think we can both agree that you can use the cost per match to evaluate the value of a district event. Even if you can only afford to go to a single district event you get more value from the event than you do from travelling to a single regional.

I believe I've heard that NC is in talks to go to districts in a similar fashion to Indiana.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Coming from the PNW, I will say that moving the district championship to an area with many less teams actually nets out to costing more teams more money. In 2014, our championship was in Portland. That meant about 12 teams did not have travel costs. This year, they move the championship to Spokane. This increased the travel time for all but 4-5 teams, and actually cost more teams money, since there were less teams in the local area. You really do want the district championship in the most densely populated area of the district. That way if there are teams that need help raising money, its less teams, which should be easier to find money for. Ideally, we would have our championship in Seattle, but the venues in Seattle are not ideal for a championship, and people love the venue we have here in Portland.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Couldn't you just have 2 District Championships?

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Honestly, my goal with cost per match wasn't to prove it was cheaper. It was so we were talking the same units. If your 10k figure includes DCMP and travel costs to it it's not comparable to one that doesn't.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Correct. Let's look at one that doesn't include DCMP:

Single Regional - registration fee + travel costs

District 1 - registration fee + no travel costs
District 2 - no registration fee + travel costs

In this situation it should basically come out to even, but if you have to travel twice because there isn't a district event close to you then the cost goes up compared to a single regional. However, you still have the option to only go to one district event, and you still get an increase in value by doing this.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

We only have about 150 teams. About 75-90 in the Seattle Area. about 30-40 more in the portland area, and the rest are spread out, with about 15 located in the spokane area.

Here is a map of the district and its teams. The red dot is spokane, the green dot is portland. Its about a 6.5 hour drive between the 2. Seattle to portland is about a 3.5 hour drive, Seattle to Spokane is about a 5 hour drive.



I can't figure out why the image is not showing up, so here's a link. http://imgur.com/V4gC06f

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

:cough: 2 champs joke :cough:

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

NC is confirmed for an "Indiana style" small district system in 2016. I foresee expanding that district to include SC in the future. From the rumors I've heard, SC was approached early on to join, but resisted...this may or may not be true. GA could also expand, but I'm not close to any of the discussions there.

More toward the original topic - I am liking the thought of two Virginia district events within reasonable driving distance of Northern NC...giving us some potential options for inter-district 3rd events!

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

He's 3 hours behind on the joke, cut him some slack.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

You know what is also within reasonable driving distance to Northern NC?

:cough: Rumble in the Roads :cough:

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

There's really a couple other scenarios we should look into, compare, and then see how many teams meet them.

First we need to look at the current state. For 1 or 2 regional teams (3+ regional teams are already an outlier and it makes the scenarios explode) there's 5 states they could be in:

A.Single Regional w/o travel cost
B.Single Regional w/ travel cost
C.Double Regional w/ no travel costs
D.Double Regional w/ 1 travel cost
E.Double Regional w/ 2 travel costs

I'm also conveniently claiming that travel to location A approximately equivalent to location B. I'm fairly confident that this assumption will hold relatively true for local (ground based) travel.

From there we have 3 states they can transition to (I'm ignoring the single district scenario because I think it's a bad scenario and should be actively discouraged):

F.Districts w/o travel cost
G.District w/ 1 travel cost
H.District w/2 travel costs

So, in theory there's 15 different scenarios we need to look at. Of these the following are more than likely cost neutral:

A -> F
B -> G

The following would be cost saving:

B -> F
C -> F
C -> G (assumes local travel cost < $4000)
D -> F
D -> G (assumes local travel cost < $4000)
E -> F
E -> G
E--> H

And the following are increasing cost:

A -> G
A -> H
B -> H
C -> H
D -> H

The next step, which I haven't done, is to find which percentages of teams in your district are in each of these transition groups and ensure you are benefiting the majority.

The big concerns for me are the ones in the A -> G, A -> H and B -> H transition groups because these are already incredibly vulnerable teams.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

If the tentative district event placements hold, there will be no teams moving from category A to G or H, as the existing regional areas are all playing host to a new district event.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

It also more or less precludes the (C, D , E) -> H transitions. Leaving only the B -> H transition as a possible in this district. And I'd be willing to bet that it's a very small number of teams in that situation. (if any)


Also, I'm not Payne Train.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I think that there isn't any significant way to feasibly reduce the travel costs for teams in Western Virginia and the Hampton Roads area (possibly only exception a second district in Hampton Roads). However, I still believe that, ideally, all teams would have to travel only once within their district. Obviously this isn't possible, as Western VA provides the exception. But I think it would be fair to have the teams in the DC metro area travel for the District Championship. If they had to only travel for the District Championship at VCU (since the other events are nearby and within driving distance), then the Central Virginia and Metro DC area teams would only have to travel one time before Worlds. To help the Hampton Roads teams and some Northern VA teams, the future 8th and 9th district events should be thrown in the Winchester and Norfolk areas. This would ensure that the fewest number of teams possible have to travel twice in the region.

TLDR: In order to make the equity of travel better (hence making team growth easier), the district championship should be at VCU at least 50% of the time.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

You didn't answer my question. Why should a minority of teams be catered to in the name of "equity," when the most utility is provided by hosting the DCMP nearer to the population center?

This also isn't even touching on financial and scheduling concerns between the various venue options. We don't know for a fact that VCU is even an option for the appropriate weekends for a DCMP (6 or 7).

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

If I'm reading his post correctly, for the sake of program growth in underrepresented areas. I still think having events near population centers is more important.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Yes that was what I was going for.

I agree with you in a general sense that this is important. However, in this case, it isn't like Central VA doesn't have a large number of teams; it's the second largest in team density.

Also, I think this year was a scheduling issue. I think Sally or someone else mentioned that VCU was booked during Week 6. Regardless, there is no reason (besides convenience and a little break) that a Week 5 championship couldn't occur. Most teams in the state will be playing in Week 4 events anyway.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

The calendar has opened up for those weeks in the past, and the event was on the VCU calendar until FIRST quietly pushed out that the 2015 kickoff would fall on January 9th, pushing the whole season back a week. The dates would be a Week 6 event any other year (like next year). And unless circumstances have changed, finances are not an issue at VCU.

There is something to be said about equality vs balance, which are not always the same thing. District system implementation is meant to cover a number of objectives, and under the spectrum of event location should exist a fulcrum that balances two objectives that can inherently oppose each other. In this case, balance should be found between "growing in underrepresented areas" and "adequately serving existing teams".

I am of the opinion that the locations that have been proposed do balance out pretty well, but YMMV.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Please don't give the steering committee ideas like that.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

See, here's my disconnect from that viewpoint. The DC metro area still has potential for growth as well. There's only 13 teams in DC for more than 40 high schools in the city. Not to mention the massive population advantage DC (both as a city and metro area) has over Richmond. Putting the DCMP in the DC metro area still allows for plenty of growth in the Chesapeake District, as well as serving the greatest utility towards existing teams and providing a venue with the more exposure.

Compressing the district schedule down that far would make finding venues significantly more challenging, and make the competition season incredibly fast paced/strenuous. I would definitely not recommend a week 5 DCMP. MAR has also seen significantly lower DCMP attendance acceptance rates when there's not a week between the final districts and DCMP.

Changing to a district format means, by default, that circumstances have changed. Funding has to be allocated to all sorts of things that previously were not the responsibility of the district. Not to mention, just because a regional existed at a venue previously does not automatically mean is was a financially healthy scenario (look into the MAR presentations when the MAR district was announced regarding the cost of the venues for Philadelphia and Trenton).

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Last I heard, the venue cost for the Siegel Center was a number that rhymes with zero.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Okay, that makes sense. Regardless, I still think they should have more events in Central/Eastern Virginia to help with the travel. Hopefully they'll expand there soon once more teams are formed.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I'm actually happy that the DCMP is being held at UM. We have thoroughly the regional there the past 2 years. It also isn't increasing our amount of travel any compared to previous years.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

This presentation projects that it'll cost about 60K for a district event and 140-260K for the DMCP.

Compare this to MAR, which spends about 22K for a district event and 65K for the DCMP. Why are the costs so different? I understand that MAR is getting the venue for the DCMP for pretty cheap, but why are district events expected to be much pricier than in MAR?



Do you happen to have a link to those presentations?

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Excellent question. Without proof, I predict that these are the major drivers of the cost differences you've identified between here and MAR:

• It hasn't been stated explicitly, but it appears that FIRST Chesapeake proposes to purchase professional event management services, e.g. those from Show Ready Events.
• It hasn't been stated explicitly, but it appears that FIRST Chesapeake proposes to continue to fund 3 Regional Director-level positions, even after the 1-year transitional support from FIRST for these positions is eliminated.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

More than likely our team will probably go to the Hampton Roads district event
which will likely be about a hour away. Central will be like VCU has been in the past. Its about a hour and a half away for us. (we're in Franklin)Teams like 1908 on the Eastern Shore and 388 in far western Virginia
will have a hard time getting to district events. (although not ideal for 388 having a district event in the Blacksburg area puts them closer to home than Richmond has been.) Those two teams struggled this past season just to get to their Regional. Team 1598 is even further west than we are and will have to travel about as far to two events as they did to the one regional in Richmond...they are actually closer to Raleigh, NC (where the NC regional is/ was held) than any of the locations for the Va. district events.

Luckly some Va. teams like 422, 1086, 2363 and ourselves have traveled to two
regionals the past couple of years and have a better handle on the costs. (1086, 2363 and our team attended both VCU and Chesapeake this year. We're a little tiny team. 422, 1086 and 2363 are much larger.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Nate don't forget the start up costs for the first year also. I think they are talking about buying two fields and the extra parts and equipment for them.
I would suspect that the next year costs might be lower.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

We have a lot of shirts but I'm always looking for more mentors so I don't go full zombie. It's not going to be easy for us, but I'm ready. People outside (and inside) of the region underestimate how many teams here exist on the fringe.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Disclamer: I don't have a dog in this fight other than to say I think the Chesapeake District Champs should be at the Naval Academy since that is an amazing venue. So feel free to click through my profound thoughts to the next person.

Background music "The times they are a changing"

The 1/2 champs are coming. The push to districts is even more than it was 6 months ago. State and regional organizations are working hard to do their best with funds, times, venues and geography to pull things together.

"It's too far, too disperse, too expensive, no pit space, no corndogs at that venue", and on and on. Litany that I've heard with every other district. But the events happen and life goes on. And so far, the districts that have come to life have been wonderful. I think it's cool that MD and VA got together. Hey WVa, whats up? Going to Ohio?

I'm happy to see all the energy and ideas and great thoughts. Pivot off of CD, find your nearest district person and go "Hey, gallons of blood sweat and tears here for you to use".

You are starting to see lots of "done deals" here. For those of you that are not in a done deal, sign up now to help shape it to what you think it should be (oh bring sponsor money, that makes your voice louder).

For those of you currently in a "done deal" that screws your team, sign up to help on the next go around. Oh yea, and you too should also bring sponsor dollars.

For some of you FRC is going to cost more. For some of you it will cost less. Travel more / travel less. But pay attention, districts / states is the way of the future, regional events are going away, 1/2 champs is here to stay for awhile.

I'm all good for sitting in a room remembering how it was. Much happier sitting in a room going "Love this change, how can we build on it"

But the times are a changing, with you, or against you, they are a changing.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I would really love that...but right now, I'm living three hours away from my team, and from the event we host, and after doing THOR I'm exhausted! Too much weekend commuting!

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Pssshhhh that is totally a valid reason. 3 hours? Dear lord.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

"Build it and they will come." FiM found this to be true when they created a district event in Traverse City (one of the original district locations). There was growth in teams in the northern Lower Peninsula and in the Upper Peninsula at that time.

Later it turned to, "Since they came, we will build it." There finally is an event in the UP at Escanaba.

Far-flung areas have travel costs - and always have had. But Districts can lessen those costs for teams, because travel may be a shorter distance.

And as was previously noted, a team can choose to attend just one event and thus keep costs the same.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

If I remember correctly from a Hampton Roads district meeting with VirginiaFIRST staff, VCU was ruled out as host for the 2016 DCMP due to a scheduling conflict, not with the venue, but around the venue. The streets will be closed that Saturday morning for a race (5K or marathon of some kind) and teams would be unable to get to the venue.

For those discussing costs, I worked this spreadsheet up a few months ago. It is estimating registration, travel, and food costs for our small team that typically travels with 15 or less students/mentors total. A few assumptions include event locations, Saturday/Sunday district events, and my knowledge of our costs such as sharing of buses and number of hotel rooms and meals required.

TL;DR: Costs for our small team are approximately $7,800 less for a two district system versus a two regional system. Other teams will of course have varying costs.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

We'll see how it goes. There are a lot of teams in VA that get a tougher road. It's not going to help growth in those areas in the short term. However, having an event at all in Western Virginia helps.

Obviously, the current system favors MD/DC/North-VA, which right now makes sense. However, I do think at some point the planning committee will need to increase focus in the other parts of the district.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Here's what I could still find. Video.
https://www.anymeeting.com/webconfer...d=E950DC808549

Nate touched on it in his post for VA/MD specifics but it's the same reason a NE, MAR, PNW, IN, and MI average District event costs are vastly different; local leadership has a lot of flexibility in what their district events will be like. Types of venues chosen, professional vs volunteer A/V, show elements, and professional event support such as ShowReadyEvents are all items that local leadership decides on. There's vastly different opinions on what is and isn't needed to run a district event. As long as that exists, and there isn't set standards, there will be differences between average DE cost between the regions. Same pretty much applies to DCMP.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

From my impression/experience in New England with districts, I think it's better to have the events shifted slightly towards favoring the 'rural' or 'low-density' teams compared to what the 'FRC population density' might indicate.

The teams in high-density areas should all be able to attend one event very close to them (<20-40min travel)... they will then need to travel some amount to get to the second event (30-80min).

The teams in low-density areas should be able to attend one event fairly close to them (20-60min travel). They will then need to travel to get to their second event (45-120min).

Teams in high-density areas are accustomed to needing to drive further to get places; teams in low-density areas are accustomed to shorter distances. BUT low-density areas will need events brought to them in order to start to flourish at all... See Gary's 'If you build it, they will come' quote. As examples from New England, especially note what has happened to Maine since 2012/2013. UMass Dartmouth will hopefully be the beginning of something similar in SE Mass. I hope that NEFIRST and local teams can get something similar happening in VT and Central/Northern NH. Generally to fill up these 'outpost' events, higher-resources teams (perhaps from high-density areas) will need to travel further to them for their 2nd or 3rd plays. Even if official direction hasn't been given, high-resource teams will help fill them up...

The DCMP should approximately follow the population center. The teams that are good enough to qualify for the DCMP will generally be able to make things work to get there (particularly if the region makes an effort to help them and be understanding).

Note, district event or DCMP locations may seem weird at first, but wait a year or two for the district to get its feet underneath itself. Be the change!

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

What Nathan suggested appears to be what the Cheapeake District has done with their tentative district placement. They have events tentatively placed in southeast and southwest Virginia, despite a lower proportion of teams in those areas. There are still a couple corners of Virginia where teams will have to travel, but getting an event near the Tennessee/Kentucky borders would be unrealistic and unnecessary.

The DCMP is near the population center of the district.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Well, not quite. Houghton still is 3 hours from their nearest event at Escanaba. Then it's 7 hours (in good weather) to the next closest at Traverse City. (Michigan is a BIG state. It's farther from Detroit to Houghton than it is from Detroit to Baltimore, MD.)

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Yeah, unfortunately Michigan and the PNW (being broader geographical areas) have a harder time keeping districts close to teams...

Even in New England (which collectively is about 75% as large by area as Michigan, and obviously lacks the isolated effect of the UP) there are tough situations for teams... The most remote team in Vermont (2370 from Rutland) currently has to drive 2hr, 18min and 2hr, 35min to get to their two closest districts. The most remote team in Maine (5122 from Old Town) has to drive 1hr, 53min and 3hr, 8min to their two closest districts.

That obviously doesn't even include teams that don't even exist in the most remote large population centers (let alone more remote areas). A team in Caribou, ME would have to drive 4.5hr and 6hr to get to two districts... Teams in Burlington, VT (the center of the most populous region in VT) would have to travel 3hr to get to their first two districts.

Unfortunately, FRC still hasn't reached far enough into the rural areas of the country... Note though, that this gets better with districts (not worse!) because expensive, large Regionals aren't even feasible in a lot of the regions we can legitimately discuss hosting a district event.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

The unfortunate fact of moving to the district system is that it is not financially fair to all teams. The most remote teams, particularly those who have traditionally only attended one Regional will most likely have their budget impacted negatively. It is even worse if they move on to the DCMP and the fact is that their chances of doing so are pretty good.

For teams that have traditionally attended two Regionals, particularly those from the team dense areas their costs can go down if they don't move on to DCMP or stay about the same if they do.

Keep in mind that District events are two day events and they usually have a load-in inspection day preceding the actual event days. Because nothing other than inspection and maybe the driver's meeting happens the first evening you can get away with less than the full team attending. That means that you can get away with only 1 night of hotels for part of the team in some cases and 2 for some of the team, so the hotel budget per event should go down purely based on the number of nights. Also note that in general the hotels are less expensive in the outlying areas than in the larger cities where Regionals have been traditionally held. In some cases the cost has been half of what I paid for a room at the Regional I used to travel to.

So yes the cost of transportation will almost certainly go up but between the fewer days and often less expensive hotels the cost of accommodations is not necessarily going to go up for attending two district events that require travel vs one travel regional. However the likelihood is that a large percentage of teams will be able to attend one District event w/o having to travel.

The other factor is that depending on the events in your area the net time away from school or work will stay the same or go down, 2 District events vs 1 Regional. The typical Regional was Thur-Sat meaning two missed days while District events are Fri-Sat or some times Sat-Sun meaning a total of 2 missed days or less.

Overall however the benefit of the District system is huge. Teams that have traditionally only been able to attend a single event now get to answer that question of "if we make these changes how will it perform" or they will finally be prompted to say "what can we do to improve our performance" when they never sat down and had that conversation before. I call it getting the full engineering experience. In real engineering there is usually some sort of ongoing testing and refining until the product/solution if finalized. With FRC the real world testing is the event, yes practice and testing at your shop is beneficial but the fact is none of us really, truly knows how the game will play out overall until we get to an event. This impact is usually greater on those teams from the outlying areas because they typically do not have access to a practice field or teams that they can do at least some form of scrimmage with.

The other thing to consider is that far more teams have a chance to move on to a higher level. I've seen many cases where a community, particularly those outlying areas, have really rallied behind a team when they come to the community and say "we've qualified for the next level". I've heard of teams raising most of the cost of the DCMP entry fee in one night and on very short notice in a very small school in a very small town. Hopefully that is something that will have a lasting impact on the community and the team's finances.

Tl/DR: Yes the financial impact can hit the teams from outlying areas harder but the teams from the outlying areas typically see a greater benefit from the district system.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

The regional system isn't fair either.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

And for Calumet (2586), add like another 20 minutes.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Cant wait for Chesapeake District events going to miss the team that come from overseas.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I just thought I would post the slide in the presentation showing the driving distance to the district championship overlayed with the 2015 team map.

http://i.imgur.com/BteVQoa.jpg?1

Each ring is apparently 1 hour out from the district championship at UMD.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I will be very surprised if 388 will only have to drive 5 hours to UMD

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Yeah, it's probably close to 7 for Grundy.

Gotta wonder what's going to happen to a team like theirs where they're no better or worse off competing in NC instead of VA with respect to distance to events, and FTC has as close as FTC can get to a foothold in that part of the state.

:/

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

They are clearly outside the 5 hour line by a significant margin.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Ugh, the name and logo are so bad.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

+1

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Something I've learned while competing in MAR: Districts are built by the volunteers that step up to the plate. Rather than just complaining about the name and logo, why not offer a better solution? Based on the information presentation, it sounded like they got the name after asking the area's teams to send in suggestions. So while that probably won't change, why not create a logo yourself to offer as a replacement? I'm eager to see what you come up with.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Credit for the logos goes to Nate Laverdure

I will admit that I did not send in a suggestion for a name, which I regret. But sticking with the concept they seem to have been going for on the name something better would have been "FIRST on the Chesapeake." FIRST Chesapeake just sounds like a partial name, and not a name for a region.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I want to see a logo that makes the District of Columbia look like the FIRST logo's blue diamond.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I like 'em; they're much cleaner than the logo shown in the information presentation: .

I would certainly hope that the Steering Committee would be open to possible logo alternatives.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

And that's even ignoring the fact that the one from the presentation is actually in violation of the FIRST Brand Standards.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

noticed that as well. Sent an email about it a few days ago.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Though, it's not much different from the FIM logo.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Actually, it looks like the PNW logo also goes against the FIRST Branding and Design Standards by putting the FIRST logo on top of graphic shapes, and the Indiana logo may also violate them by altering the triangle in the logo. Additionally, it looks like the New England logo might be in violation for improper alignment of the name "FIRST" and the FIRST logo.

The only district logo that does not seem to go against the Branding and Design Standards is the MAR logo, which does not use the name "FIRST" or the FIRST logo anywhere at all.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

The PNW logo doesn't violate it because there are far fewer restrictions on the wordmark part of the logo as there are of the icon.

Indiana might also get away with it because by changing the triangle it is actually no longer the FIRST logo.

However, anything that uses one or the other is technically a violation too.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Should have called it "FIRST District in Chesapeake", then you could all put:

"Member FDIC" after your team number.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Gold. Hire this guy to choose names from now on.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Stan where are you! We need this name!

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Personally, I liked "FIRST on the Chesapeake", but thats just me. :P

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Right? FIRST Chesapeake sounds like a company name and not a description of a region. I get what they were going for, I just think they missed the mark a bit.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

My favorite was FIRST DMV ;)

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I still think FAMED (FIRST Atlantic Mid-East District) was the way to go.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

We have FIM, MAR, NE, PNW and IN as our current districts with GA, NC and "FIRST Chesapeake" coming next year. Kind of a mouthful, what acronym are we going to use for the Chesapeake district area?

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Washington FIRST Robotics isn't really using its name anymore, right? We could use that.


The abbreviation for FIRST Chesapeake is 'CHE'.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

The "DC Area District" or DCAD? :P

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I don't think the area should be renamed (I actually kind of like the name). I just think we need a convenient shorthand when writing it so it doesn't seem out of place in lists with the other districts. Something like "FC" or "CSPK". I don't know what's best. Were there any abbreviations used for the Chesapeake regional?

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I think you just end up going with FC, although I think FOC would have been better for "FIRST on the Chesapeake"

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I mean for what it's worth FIRST violates their branding standards and flaunts those violations at Champs. Haven't seen any official logo.

EDIT: never mind, I saw it. It's nothing I didn't expect.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

If we're posting things, here's something that wasn't considered or ever received.

The FIRST Colonial Region celebrates the heritage of the United States while looking to the future.



The eight stars represent the 8 original events the region will begin with. 7 districts, and one championship. The cannonade in the center represents one of the major technical achievements used in the Revolutionary War. The gear on the outside is... self explanatory. I picked faded shades of traditional FIRST colors because well, the crayola colors looked gross.

In addition, each of the 8 events received a variant of the logo. Here is the first one I found, the Capital District.



One thing that has always annoyed me about the district system is how names are so easily dropped and added because a district moved 5 miles east or west. The area has a very rich history and very distinguishable parts that make up the region, so these distinct districts get distinct names. As long as the district stayed in the general area, the name wouldn't change. The Old Line District (western MD) and the Harbor District (eastern MD) are in Maryland, The Capital District is in DC, and Virginia has the Metro (NoVA), Shenandoah (Western VA), Commonwealth (Central VA), and Dominion (eastern VA) Districts.

For the championship, the logo is gold because... well, because.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

Cannon and gear are OK but you need more smokestack and anchor. :)

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

I feel the need to clarify something. "Districts" are not individual events, but rather the entire area that is districted together into the competition structure. Michigan is a district. The Pacific Northwest is a district. DC, Maryland, and Virginia comprise the FIRST Chesapeake District.

Individual competitions are simply events. Look at the nomenclature used here. PNW has posted their schedule, with events named using this format:
"PNW District - Auburn Mountainview Event"
I can guarantee you this is consistent with at least last year's naming system as well.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

That's not necessarily true. Formatting for these events has never been uniform. For what it's worth though, I don't really care.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

We just simply call it (if Brandon doesn't mind ) CD.

You could have Ches D or CBD (Chesapeake Bay District)

One idea i told Kyle Johnson was....
You take the outline of a Chesapeake Bay Skipjack (look it up if you
don't know what that is.) put that to the left. The Skipjack is well known
to this area if you were born and raised near the water. Then have the
First logo to the right and Chesapeake just below the First logo.

Or do like MD. First did and have a robotic crab.

Re: FIRST Chesapeake Districts
 

http://www.cambridgemainstreet.com/u..._2354_4web.jpg

http://www.jammadesigns.com/beach.me...l.boat.art.jpg