Chief Delphi - [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

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[FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

I got an email back in June saying:

"2. Game Manual Part I Release!
Due to a flood of inquries we are very exciteded to announce that Game Manual Part I will be released on Monday, July 7th!"

Today is Tuesday, July 7th. Has anyone seen it?

Thanks!

Andrew

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

When it is posted, it should be at this location:

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/ftc/game

It currently still has Cascade Effect.

You can also get there by going to http://www.usfirst.org/, selecting FTC, and then "The FTC Game" at the left.

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

I have been watching for it everywhere they have not released it yet.

:(

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

I have been watching too! Would like to know a few details! :p :ahh:

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattRain (Post 1489251)

I have been watching too! Would like to know a few details! :p :ahh:

It won't give us much.:D

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

I know, but its still nice to see any changes from past years. Especially with a new control system.

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

It is now posted:
http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default...ual-Part-I.pdf

Some important points:
- more motors allowed, including VEX 393: http://www.vexrobotics.com/motors.html and Andy Mark am-3102, am 31-03, am-3104, which I was unable to find - probably to be released later. Andy Mark's NeveRest is also allowed.

- Sensors from any manufacturer may be connected to the
Core Device Interface Module. No restrictions on sensors, as far as I can see.

- lasers are not allowed; however, there seem to be no prohibition against IR LEDs - which also makes IR-based distance sensors such as this one legal:
https://www.pololu.com/product/2474

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasha (Post 1489340)

- Sensors from any manufacturer may be connected to the
Core Device Interface Module. No restrictions on sensors, as far as I can see.

So I'm somewhat confused by this.

In prior years we could run microcontrollers off of
the protoboard if you could get your mC to draw
a low enough current.

Will the interface module supply power to external
sensors? The manual specifically states no voltage
controllers so a 7805 based circuit to power one is
out.

That also seems to rule out again this year 5V led
light strips. Which is somewhat disappointing.

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

I'm wondering if the IR LED is an oversight and wasn't listed. It would make for a fun defensive move to turn on a bunch of IR lights to mess up other autonomous programs during the game. (Of Course that isn't very GP.)

Quote:

<RE03> c.
The battery pack must connect first to a single power switch before connecting to any powered modules on the Robot. See the FTC Robot Wiring Guide (coming soon!) for sample Robot-power wiring.

There is a power switch on the Power Distubution box... are we allowed to have a different one?

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattRain (Post 1489346)

It would make for a fun defensive move to turn on a bunch of IR lights

Not fun.

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by skatefriday (Post 1489345)

Will the interface module supply power to external
sensors? The manual specifically states no voltage
controllers so a 7805 based circuit to power one is
out.

According to documentation on modern robotics website:
http://modernroboticsinc.com/core-de...rface-module-2
the core device interface module can provide up to 150mA at 5V (total to all ports). This should be more than enough for usual sensors (e.g, gyro or distance sensor).

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by skatefriday (Post 1489359)

Not fun.

My point exactly. (Because you know teams would do it)

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattRain (Post 1489378)

My point exactly. (Because you know teams would do it)

I like this gem from 5.3.1: "One example of a guiding principle is that if a Team would not want an opponent to use a particular design feature against them, it is likely that it will not be allowed in competition."

Let's see how they're going to enforce that one. :)

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wgardner (Post 1489379)

I've always hated the robots that are nothing but a 40 pound
slab of metal and a drivetrain.

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasha (Post 1489365)

So say we want to supply 25mA to an arduino (a typical draw), do
we hook it up to one of the digital out ports? The documentation also
says Digital current limit: 220 ohm resistor.

Using I = V/R, I = 5/220 = .0227A, or roughly 23mA.

Am I reading this correctly then that we should not draw more
than 23mA out of any single digital port?

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by skatefriday (Post 1489382)

I hadn't noticed this before but you can pull 500mA out of
each usb port on the power distro module. That solves that
problem.

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by skatefriday (Post 1489381)

I've always hated the robots that are nothing but a 40 pound
slab of metal and a drivetrain.

And that's why you take a 40 pound slab of metal robot drivetrain, and place something useful/helpful/working on top. Makes for a good robot.

Our robots this past year were 50+ pounds. :p

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by skatefriday (Post 1489382)

So say we want to supply 25mA to an arduino (a typical draw), do we hook it up to one of the digital out ports? The documentation also says Digital current limit: 220 ohm resistor.

Using I = V/R, I = 5/220 = .0227A, or roughly 23mA.

Am I reading this correctly then that we should not draw more
than 23mA out of any single digital port?

As far as I understand, Arduino (or any other MC) is not allowed. The rules allow sensors and lights, but no other electronics. I do not believe that you can argue that Arduino is a sensor.

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasha (Post 1489390)

As far as I understand, Arduino (or any other MC) is not allowed. The rules allow sensors and lights, but no other electronics. I do not believe that you can argue that Arduino is a sensor.

Microcontrollers have been allowed for the last 4 years at least.

I'd find it hard to believe that they are outlawing them this year.

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by skatefriday (Post 1489395)

Microcontrollers have been allowed for the last 4 years at least.

I'd find it hard to believe that they are outlawing them this year.

I believe rule RE06 is quite explicit:

Quote:

Additional Robot electronics are subject to the following constraints:

a. Light sources (including LEDs) are allowed; these may not be focused or directed in any way (for example: laser s and mirrors are not allowed).
b. Sensors
...
c. Video recording devices (GoPro or similar) are allowed providing they are used only for non-functional post match entertainment and the wireless capability is turned off

d. Other electronics are not allowed.

Arduino is certainly not a sensor (nor is it a light source or video recording device :), so it is not allowed - at least, according to my reading of the rules. Once the official FTC forums open, we can ask for a confirmation there.

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasha (Post 1489397)

I believe rule RE06 is quite explicit:

Arduino is certainly not a sensor (nor is it a light source or video recording device :), so it is not allowed - at least, according to my reading of the rules. Once the official FTC forums open, we can ask for a confirmation there.

Actually I disagree. An accelerometer is effectively a specialized
microcontroller. Are we going to assert that it's not a sensor?

The term "sensor" is exceedingly broad and given the way they
wrote the rules this year I think they mean it to be interpreted in
a broad manner.

I presume this will be one of the first questions asked when the official
forums open up.

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

I believe most sensors these days have some sort of micro processor on board, so an arduino/launchpad etc doesn't seem that out of the question.

I certainly hope that the uprocesser isn't intentionally banned - that would only seem like an effort to move kids who really want to do more to the FRC world...

I suppose the old superpro is a legacy sensor right?

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

New motors are coming out on Andymarks website. NeveRest 20 and 60

NeveRest 20 (am-3102) ($25.00)
Physical Specs:
Overall Length: 5.18"
Maximum Diameter: 37mm (1.46 in)
Output Shaft size: 6mm (0.24 in) with 0.5mm deep flat
Weight: 0.762 Pounds
Mounting Holes: M3 tapped holes, qty. 6, on a 31mm bolt circle
Electrical Connection Geometry: 6-pin connector for motor power and encoder contact
Gear Material: Steel
Body Material: Steel with plastic encoder housing
Lubrication: Included with gearbox

Theoretical Performance Specs:
Gearbox Reduction: 20:1
Voltage: 12 volt DC
No Load Free Speed, at gearbox output shaft: 315 RPM
Gearbox Output Power: 14W
Stall Torque: 197 oz-in
Stall Current: 11.5A
Output pulse per revolution of Output Shaft (ppr): 560 Pulses

Performance Specs, mounted to AndyMark dyno: Coming Soon
Max Speed (under load of dyno):
No Load Current (under load of dyno):
Stall Current:
Stall Torque:
Max Output Power:
Time to Failure at Stall:
Motor Case Temperature at Failure:

NeveRest 40 (am-2964) Released last year ($25.00)
Physical Specs:
Overall Length: 133.5mm (5.26 in)
Maximum Diameter: 37mm (1.46 in)
Output Shaft size: 6mm (0.24 in) with 0.5mm deep flat
Weight: 0.75 pound
Mounting Holes: M3 tapped holes, qty. 6, on a 31mm bolt circle
Electrical Connection Geometry: 6-pin connector for motor power and encoder contact
Gear Material: Steel
Body Material: Steel with plastic encoder housing
Lubrication: Included with gearbox

Performance Specs:
Gearbox Reduction: 40:1
Voltage: 12 volt DC
No Load Free Speed, at gearbox output shaft: 160 rpm
No Load Free Speed, motor only: 6,600 rpm
Gearbox Output Power: 14W
Stall Torque: 350 oz-in
Stall Current: 11.5 amps
Force Needed to Break Gearbox: 1478 oz-in
Minimum torque needed to back drive: 12.8 oz-in
Output pulse per revolution of Output Shaft (ppr): 1120 (280 rises of Channel A)
Output pulse per revolution of encoder shaft (ppr): 28 (7 rises of Channel A)

Performance Specs, mounted to AndyMark dyno:
Max Speed (under load of dyno): 129 rpm
No Load Current (under load of dyno): 0.4 amps
Stall Current: 11.5 amps
Stall Torque: 396 oz-in
Max Output Power: 15 Watts
Time to Failure at Stall: 2 minutes, 54 seconds
Motor Case Temperature at Failure: 190 degrees F

NeveRest 60 (am-3103) ($25.00)
Physical Specs:
Overall Length: 133.5mm (5.26 in)
Maximum Diameter: 37mm (1.46 in)
Output Shaft size: 6mm (0.24 in) with 0.5mm deep flat
Weight: 0.776 pounds
Mounting Holes: M3 tapped holes, qty. 6, on a 31mm bolt circle
Electrical Connection Geometry: 6-pin connector for motor power and encoder contact
Gear Material: Steel
Body Material: Steel with plastic encoder housing
Lubrication: Included with gearbox

Theoretical Performance Specs:
Gearbox Reduction: 60:1
Voltage: 12 volt DC
No Load Free Speed, at gearbox output shaft: 105 RPM
Gearbox Output Power: 14W
Stall Torque: 593 oz-in
Stall Current: 11.5A
Output pulse per revolution of Output Shaft (ppr): 1680 Pulses

Performance Specs, mounted to AndyMark dyno: Coming Soon
Max Speed (under load of dyno):
No Load Current (under load of dyno):
Stall Current:
Stall Torque:
Max Output Power:
Time to Failure at Stall:
Motor Case Temperature at Failure:

NeveRest Motor (am-3104) ($15.00)
Specifications:
Physical Specs:
•Overall Length: 75mm (2.95 in)
•Maximum Diameter: 38mm (1.49 in)
•Weight: 0.550 Pounds
•Mounting Holes: 3x M2-0.4 x 22mm deep
•Electrical Connection Geometry: 6-pin connector for motor power and encoder contact
•Gear Material: Steel
•Body Material: Steel with plastic encoder housing
Theoretical Performance Specs:
•Voltage: 12 volt DC
•No Load Free Speed: 6600 RPM
•Power: 14W
•Stall Torque: 8.75 oz-in
•Stall Current: 11.5 A
•Output pulse per revolution of Output Shaft (ppr): 28

(SOURCE: www.andymark.com)

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wgardner (Post 1489379)

I really dislike when opponents use design features against us that score points. Particularly if they score more points than we score.

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CougarRobot (Post 1489505)

I really dislike when opponents use design features against us that score points. Particularly if they score more points than we score.

Right but don't forget that you want your opponents to score
points, just one less point than you do. Those ranking points
matter.

Re: [FTC]: FTC Game Manual for 2015-2016?

Andymark has released all of the new motors. It looks like a nice line of motors. NeveRest Line.

One of the motors in the line comes without a gearbox. I wonder if they will release other gearbox that you can purchase to repair motors/gearboxes.

It was nice at Worlds for them to replace the NeveRest 40's if you broke them at any part of the season.