Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

Madison, I don't think that this shouldn't even be in discussion. :(

I only used the "Rich kids, better drugs" reference in comparison from Private to Public school, in the use of drugs. And that drugs exist EVERYWHERE, no matter how blind some may want to look at it.

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

I don't think we all agree drugs are bad[1]. I may be the oddball here but I think that if adults, aware of the risks of a substance, choose to partake in it that is those people's business.

However, I also believe in the rule of law, so I disagree with partaking in illegal substances. I do not, always, agree said substances should be illegal. But I encourage folks to follow the law and work within it to change it.

[1] In fact, many drugs are life saving and beneficial. (Notably those classified outside of Schedule I)

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

It's an interesting argument she's trying to make:

Basically she's arguing that because studies show that people in lower income areas. Often highly population dense urban areas (which is often ignored in those studies). Are more likely to die from overdoses of an unspecified drug that somehow rich kids are less at risk.

I've had a rich kid, who has since died from drug use, explain that to me once before.
I am sure these studies are of little comfort to that family.

Yes people who have 'nothing to loose' tend to engage in riskier behavior.
I just lost a friend last year much along those lines - in his case his risk was scuba diving.
He was pretty well off and it all fell apart, and whether it has really fallen apart or you just think it has, is really irrelevant once you go too far.

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

Responding to OP, I think what you should do is make sure they understand 3 things: inherent risks, potential consequences, and safe practices. It sounds like you are most concerned for their safety, and talking to them one on one as a mentor about how to go about their business in a safe way will do a lot of good. If you are especially concerned, I would go to the parents first and see if they can help resolve the problem before you go to the school. I think if you go to the school they'll come down hard and the student's chances for scholarships, etc. will be hurt.

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

so is caffeine. "drugs" are generally treated differently by law (IE being entirely illegal except in a few states), while alcohol is legal once a person turns 21, or under religious rules, or with parental permission on personal property.

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

Dang, you beat me by one post. But I would say instead that caffeine is an addictive drug. Also the drinking age in the USA is 18 at the federal level, but is 21 at the state level because all the states want their tax money for road work.

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

I made no argument, actually -- I simply asked to see a source that corroborates your affirmation that "rich kids = more potent drugs = more likely to die from overdose"

If, in fact, people of lower economic status are more likely to die of overdose, those who aren't a member of that population are undeniably at lower risk. They are not at zero risk, of course, but their risk is lower when compared to the population as a whole.

If you want to address a problem, the first step should be understanding the problem and sorting out the facts from hearsay.

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

It's still interesting but you ignored what I pointed out:
The studies that show those statistics ignore population density.

So yes: let's sort out facts from study statistics that lack important pieces of data.

Or as I like to joke the magnitude of falsehoods: lies...dang lies...statistics...datasheets
A datasheet in the hands of person without comprehensive knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Statistics are just as bad - cause all you need to do is accept the conclusion and ignore the critical thinking.

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

This thread is getting off-topic, and I think it is important that we bring it back to finish addressing this important issue. Whether your school is full of students literally made of money (yes, I mean they are anthropomorphic dollar bills) or there isn't a single student in your school with a roof over their head, the problem of drug abuse on FIRST teams still exists and we as a community need to decide how to deal with it.

From the perspective of a student, I would argue that mentors should only report the student to the school administration or police if they thought the student was in danger or they seriously believed that they and the student's parents would not be able to sway the student. Otherwise, I would recommend talking to the student first, and then the student's parents if that doesn't work. Being arrested for minor drug abuse (which is what would happen if they were reported to the administration or police) can ruin an otherwise stellar student's record and obliterate any possibility of college acceptance, scholarships, jobs, etc. I think that should be a last resort.

As to concerns about the program losing funding or sponsorships due to students' drug abuse, I would argue that, as long as the drug abuse does not occur at team meetings (which I certainly hope it doesn't), the school cannot blame the team for the mis-decisions of its members. As long as the administration cannot prove that mentors knew about students' drug abuse and failed to act on their knowledge, the program should not be liable for students' mistakes.

So in summary:

• Talk to the student and their parents first
• Only report students if there is no hope
• Don't be stupid about not reporting students
• Kids, don't be stupid; don't do drugs

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

Sorry -- it was hard to parse your original text. You strung together three things fragments that aren't sentences.

I'm not sure why population density is a relevant metric here. If I'm asked to address the problem of drug overdoses and I have limited resources, I'm going to try to help the largest number of people I can -- and it seems to me that the largest number of people affected by this problem are less affluent; it doesn't really matter where they live.

Edit:
To relate this to my team so as to make the content seem more "on topic" -- My team has a tremendous disparity in socioeconomic status across the student population. We serve students from the inner-city alongside those from the most affluent suburbs in Washington. If I were to focus my attention on the rich kids because I was under the impression that those students are at greater risk, I'd be failing to do the best possible job I could and entirely because of bad information. I don't know how you can possibly discuss how to address a problem if you don't even understand it.

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

Correct, but Alcohol is a depressant, a drug that greatly inhibits the body function. There's a reason it has a surgeon general's warning on every container.

I really don't want to get into a debate in a thread that has already been derailed. While controversial, the OP brought to question a very important topic. For the most part it has been ignored and turned into a Health Class argument.

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

All opinions with in this post are my personal opinions and are independent of the my team.

As a student I have seen other students* get into trouble with substances such as alcohol and other illegal drugs. It is my personal belief that if a student confides with a mentor about issues pertaining to drugs and alcohol, a mentor should work with the student to create a safe environment to get help. That said I also understand the risk a team can get into if issues arise with their school(s) and/or sponsoring organization(s).

I can only speak to what is know of my area from both rumor (which I take with a grain of salt) and policies which i have personally read. That said I know that my team is treated like a sports team in terms of a zero tolerance for substances.

What I am try to say here is that I personally believe that mentors should try to help students who come to them with substance problems in a way that gets students the help they need with out damaging the students future potential. At the same time they should try to keep the team as a whole in mind.




*(none have been associated with our team)

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

So you are going to address their poverty or their lack of hope (which as a drug alcohol can magnify)?
Cause that's the proposed cause of the socio-economic aspect of drug overdoses.

Or

Are you planning to address the consequence of drug use?

Interestingly enough - my original post stated someone asked me to address the lack of hope issue via creating an FRC team and that was for local to me affluent students. An undeniable fact.

So the point I am trying to make (not be ignored here) is that you in an FRC team are hypothetically already doing something about a contributing cause of the problem by giving those students access to education - both book and vocational and a positive environment which creates hope. Not to mention financial assistance in the form of the scholarships available through FIRST participation.

So if I were to follow your line here - you would only profile those from the at risk for the end result of drug use - not for the at risk for lack of hope (seeing the positive aspects of your future oddly kind of favors a median income - as seen by studies of what incomes bring the most happiness and notice the overlap of the average engineering salaries and the most happy salaries?)

Again statistics can be very dangerous.
We should statistically analyze how many people die from the improper application of statistics daily.
Hopefully there's some inspiration there (because that might lead someone to think there is some value in the effort).

BTW - population density matters because socio-economically if you cram a lot of people (and their problems and consequential lack of hope) into a smaller and smaller place it's very likely to be a contagious problem. While, on the other hand, if you separate the social human animal further and further apart you can run into the isolation side effects that can lead to sociological issues to the individual. So it really does matter if you are living on top of each other in some projects rather than in houses with a little separation.

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

I don't think my opinion strays too far from many engineer's views on the issue, but i'll voice it anyway.

If it's not occurring during FRC related junctions I say that it's not an immediate concern of the team.

THAT SAID, if a student or mentor appears to be negatively suffering at the hand of these chemicals it wouldn't hurt for some individuals to talk to them about it and show concern\offer aid. Sometimes all it takes to cure these addictions is the reminder that one is wanted and loved.

It should definitely not be occurring at competition/build season, but if you think about it much of the medication that big pharma shovels into todays youth isn't far off from a lot of the recreational drugs these students could be (and sometimes are) taking. A handful of students on teams in FRC are on prescribed pharmaceutical amphetamine, and yes it does put them at an advantage over those students not on them. Just something to chew on.

If it's just hearsay, I would let it handle itself until it becomes a blatant issue. Self control is best learned through trial and error.

Either way, US drug policy needs a massive overhaul and I think we're starting to see that. The best cure for addiction and reckless behavior is love and kindness, not ham-fisted rules and lectures.

\End hippy-activist rant.

Re: Drugs and Alcohol - Dirty Little Secrets
 

I think some others have brought up the issue of liability. We could be putting ourselves at risk if a parent or school were to find out that we had knowledge of illegal student activity and turned a blind eye. Hiding or not reporting crimes is taken very seriously.

I think the focus of this post was about what one should do, both ethically and legally, when students are illegally abusing substances. Taking recommended doses of amphetamines is in a different class of concern from kids getting high or drunk (which is, I think, the point of this post).