Location of World Championships/safety
 

So I am wondering is anyone at US First is worried about the safety of holding one of the two Championships events in Saint Louis? Currently Saint Louis is in state of emergency again for the violence of the Ferguson police shooting a year later.

Houston is also on top of the list as well as Detroit for violent crimes.

Is anyone else wondering if the leaders are looking at this when sites at chosen?

First emphasizes safety so much at their events while inside but does not seem to care what occurs outside the arena. Safety of all participants needs to be based on the entire makeup of the length of the events.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

:deadhorse: The search function is your friend.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

I see what you mean but I'm sure that FIRST chose/will choose the safest areas of the cities to ensure a great experience for teams and spectators.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

FIRST has certainly considered safety in their choice for the location of Champs. Both Detroit and Houston can provide a safe environment for large events like this. All major cities large enough to host an event of this size have crime problems.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

I think you greatly overestimate the number of choices that USFIRST has regarding this matter. There's only a handful of venues in the country that can even support an event of this size. Now take that handful, and narrow it down based on travel costs (both domestic and international teams), nearby hotel capacity, venue availibility, location relative to team distribution, etc, and you really don't have many choices left.

QFT.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Seriously. People have been discussing the same thing for months! There is not a single city that can support this event and also doesn't have crime issues.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

You know about our crime numbers here in Atlanta right?

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Just for the record:

Houston has already held one FIRST Championship Event. I believe the reason(s) for moving were not related to the factors previously mentioned, but rather the distance from pits to field (and the ramps in between), along with any contract-type discussions.

This was in 2003, before Atlanta hosted the Championship.

Please read this (at least the last paragraph)
 

I happen to be a FIRST team member in the St. Louis area I actually live quite close to Ferguson and St. Louis city. Right now i'm going to give you the rundown of whats really occurring.

1. Ferguson and St. Louis city are not the same thing they have a few miles between them.

2. The unrest that is occurring is only occurring a specific area that happens to not be in St. Louis city, it is not all over the metro area.

3. This "state of emergency" is blown up way past the reality of the situation because of the media. I have not been effected by this and I live closer to Ferguson than St. Louis city.

4. These people are protesting against police and they are still mad as I am. These people are not out to hurt you. Trust me I live here and these people aren't going to attack a group of robotics students. As an African American student who associates with many others who engage in protests I feel that I have an educated opinion on this subject when it comes to the Ferguson issue.

5. I've lived in St. Louis my entire life and I never once have been robbed threatened or attacked. Sure the media makes the St. Louis area look absolutely horrible to the public but in reality it's excessive reporting. You all know how the media likes to blow things up. Yes there are robberies, yes there are shootings those occur everywhere in the entire world.

6. This state of emergeny is for St. Louis "County" not the city of St. Louis as CNN had it (incorrectly labeled on the front page of the official CNN site for the entire world to read. The championship occurs in St. Louis city.

7. I've seen the posts where people say they ave gotten there cars broken into multiple years but this is not a specific St. Louis issue, you don't think that wold happen in Detroit or even a city that is known to be quite "safe" if you gave a thief the option?
8. Yes I am writing out of anger and I apologize.

9. This is an issue that I am sure no one in the FIRST community has thought about. Michael Brown attended Normandy high school in Normandy Missouri Which covers a few different municipalities in the county area. Normandy is a school district and community that I have friends in and I even have competed "with" and against in sports. Back to the point The school that Michael Brown attended had a FRC team up until this last season in which they could not compete because all of there funding from the school had run out. Normandy school district was unaccredited meaning that there students could attend other districts in the St. Louis area but the Normandy school district had to pay tuition for every student that left the district. The team they had was FRC team 2902 NYACK http://www.usfirst.org/whats-going-o...rogramCode=FRC Which no longer exists because of money issues which was saddening to our team who accepted one of their former team members onto our team. Team NYACK even won the spirit award at the 2014 St. Louis Regional something our team could only ever dream of.

I needed to get that out.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

I_am_Clayton, thanks for all of that.

For the rest of you about to dive into this thread, please, please look and read ALL of the prior three threads on this subject. Please note that all three slowly fell into the slime of people shouting back and forth at each other, one became fully engulfed and was mercifully locked.

If you still, after reading over 300 posts, have something unique to add (like I_am_clayton who lives there) go for it. CD has already been through the baseless fear mongering cycle on this topic.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

I am all for politeness and not beating dead horses, but unless you are a list owner or moderator, you are not really in charge of the topics discussed. Everybody has the option of ignoring the threads they are not interested in.

Without going into my opinion of the relative safety of various cities... Site safety is a valid concern for at least the lead mentors. Safety of venues is at least important as rather or not to shout robot or what MSDS (soon to be be SDS) you should have. Current events that brings up safety of the venues are valid questions. Clayton posted a well thought reply to this.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Thank you for not calling them MSDS Sheets. It is appreciated.

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All cities have crime problems. I would be very confident that the city and FIRST will use all resources to prevent any danger affecting teams and their students.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

For the last few years the provided team trailer parking at St Louis came with a warning not to park there overnight. That is hardly using all resources. :eek:

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Sure, in that situation, but they could have not bothered to warn you at all.

I'd love some examples of major cities where car break-ins "never, ever happen, no way no how" that has a major stadium and infrastructure to handle something the size of the FIRST World Championships.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Printing a warning is hardly They could have arranged to have the parking lot monitored. Relatively small cost to mitigate a known risk. I solved our problem by paying to park in a monitored lot. With 600 plus teams, not an option for everybody.

At the Atlanta regional, trailer parking was provided at the marshaling yard. Not without risk, but at least it was monitored & semi secured area. The GWCC is bordered by fairly sketchy areas. I would not recommend wandering alone of the beaten path there as well.

Re: Please read this (at least the last paragraph)
 

I've been to St Louis for every CMP event held there. 2 years ago while walking AROUND the dome (<2 blocks from the dome) at 7pm I was harassed by several folks solely for being white. Obscenities were yelled at me for nothing other than walking to dinner to see some friends. I felt threatened by their tone and their words (there was a group of folks). It was NOT a pleasant experience and I wouldn't wish any of my students to go through it.

In short, another piece of anecdotal evidence.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

No, I'm just a long suffering mentor that reads CD. I try to "search" CD before I fling out new topics.

The last times this topic has come up it hasn't ended well. I'm just trying to keep away from the edge.

Clayton tried to make some valid points, but as you can see the nitpicking continues.

But since you took the time to reply with "Site safety is a valid concern", there are few places in the US that would be big enough to hold World Championships that don't have problems.

Yo' come to Philly, sorry about that hitchbot thing... those were bands of thugs from Jersey

Come to Las Vegas, but soon, while we still have water

Hey Worlds in Scramento CA in 2017!!! By then the fires should be out

So no matter who FIRST picks there will still be lots of people poking at it, with bad facts that are promulgated by the media.

Like I just did above. Las Vegas is doing a much better job on water conservation that the other states, they think they are good for the next 15 years.

There are no big fires near Sacramento.

Hitchbot in Philly seems to be a lone idiot.

But please continue bashing Detroit, Houston and St. Louis.....

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Slight side track...

I asked at NextFAB in Philadelphia, as a New Jersey resident, if we might help put Hitchbot back on it's...can bottom?

So for all my (hypothetical) alleged 'marauding' over the NJ/PA border I did try to lend a wrench ::ouch:: .

Besides I've had some great times over in Newark and Philadelphia: I just watch where I park or leave my robots, laptops, tools and vehicles to the mercy of strangers.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

The continuing issues at Ferguson is a new topic. Especially when the national news mis-identifies the location. But then the media has been confusing Atlanta with Metro Atlanta for years, so I am used to it. :)

I would not consider anything in this thread as "bashing".

The fact that urban areas all have their issues is kinda a Duh. But then a hiker was recently partially eaten by a grizzly bear at Yellowstone National park. Which goes to show you need to know the environmental dangers wherever you go.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Toronto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Oh no! ;)

If teams are not careful on the ferry from/to Billy Bishop Airport it will be a small version of the water game.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

No they won't (use all resources). But they will do something reasonable.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

i'd love that, but having a few hundreds teams go to Canada might be an issue
(speaking about legal documents)

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Oddly enough: one of the places you can go to expedite the production of an American Passport is Philadelphia (we've come full circle). ;) Big signs on all those parking lots down by Independence Hall to not leave valuables in your car (they might get 'liberated').

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

keep toronto instead of detroit or any other location,
big, cool, welcoming, tims, 1114 2056 1241 610 4039 5406 188, it aint cold in april end, and worlds needs to move countries as host country

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Go look at the percentage of US teams vs international teams at the championship, and then realize the logistical nightmare of getting that many more teams to cross an international border for championships.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

If the Championships are in Toronto will the volunteers and concessions sell: poutine?

Also now that cheesecake has been 'verbed' - what will 'poutine' as a verb end up meaning?

In the old days we could do globalization of the Championship by walking around the Disney Epcot World Showcase (yes there's a Canada stop there).

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

Read previous comments. and threads. I went to St. Louis for 3/4 past years, and my experience from it is that no one really wants to attack a bunch of nerds. Break into their cars, maybe, but that happens in literally every city

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Ok, we go to Canada and while Poutine is more Quebec and Butter Tart is Ontario, if we have both, I'm there as a volunteer in a heartbeat (and what few heartbeats remain!) Viva Canada!!

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Poutine ain't that popular in Ontario...


Maybe the Olympic Stadium in Montreal could make a nice venue for the Champs

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

I personally watched a vagrant rip the windshield wipers off a car at a stoplight when the driver refused to pay the vagrant for an unwanted window "wash". Shortly after that trip I was contacted by the FBI because an Italian restaurant I ate at was being jointly investigated by the US and Canadian officials for being a front for the Mafia to launder money. They asked me what I had eaten and what we were charged.

So Toronto is off the list too.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Alright I got it. We should host the Championship on the MOON!

No Crime Rate, No overpriced restaurants, 38 million square kilometers of space. It's Perfect! First 8 teams to arrive will play Lunacy with the First arriving & second arriving teams picking teams.

In all seriousness like others have been saying all cities are dangerous to some extent. I think we need to start asking what can we as mentors/team members/coaches do to ensure the safety of our team members and other teams. But hey that's just my opinion.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

I like the idea of champs being on the moon. #LunacyFTW

Yeah, I've had enough of people pointing out the potential dangers of Detroit/St.Louis/Houston and debating about that. I think it's time people start talking about actions to ensure how this "danger" will be avoided at champs in general, regardless of location there must be some common sense rules in big cities that FIRST teams can follow to stay safe. Instead of debating about the dangers of these cities, lets come to consensus on how we want to tackle the issue instead.(IMO)

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Common sense team options.

My concealed carry permit is valid in both MO & TX but not in MI. Probably not in Toronto either. I not sure if that is the best options anyway. :)

Don't stick your hand in the sand and be oblivious to the dangers of urban areas. Be aware that some urban areas are more dangerous than others. These areas could be a block apart.

Don't be an easy target. Travel in groups outside the venues. Especially at night.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

I vote Mars....I'm sure collectively, the FIRST community could come up with a way to land humans there....

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Seeing as St. Louis has done a fantastic job of hosting the championship for years, I don't think it'll be a problem. Same thing with Detroit and Houston. While the news may make them sound sketchy, I'm certain that their downtowns are perfectly safe.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Also, seeing as the largest stadium in the world is in Pyongyang, I think that FIRST should convince North Korea to host the championships. With a stadium capable of holding 150,000 people, space no longer becomes an issue!

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Some suggestions for urban safety from me:

1. Keep your cash/credit cards/ID, passports, travel visas - in separate places on your person. This way if you get held up you reduce the scope. Hand them the cash and call it a loss.

2. If you get held up - give them the cash especially if you are from out of town.

3. Travel in groups and make sure you know who is in the group and keep track.

4. Make sure someone knows where you are at all times.

5. If you have stuff to carry try to make it awkward to grab. Brightly colored bags and large/heavy objects make it harder to snatch it.

6. Keep small high value electronics in sight at all times. It's very easy for a smartphone or bluetooth headset to disappear in the blink of an eye.

7. If you are too tired to pay attention you need to rest someplace safe - this should be obvious to any FIRST team in a competition but if you can't remember to plug in your robot - I bet you won't think ahead of what happens if you sit your phone down while you pick up a plate of food.

8. Avoid beggars. Personally I like to help occasionally: but sometimes they will approach in groups escalating the danger to you or they are actually spotters for other criminal activity. If you must help - plan ahead and keep your donations separate from other items. Such that if they grab it and run off you lost nothing more than you were prepared to.

9. Trailers have great big doors for easily load/unload. Probably smart to put some kind of alarm on those doors.

10. Car thieves will gladly break a car door window. It's easy to approach the door of a car like you own it and when the coast is clear smash and grab. Make items in your car too big to fit through the window or possibly make your car a hard target to casually stroll up to.

11. Keep your passwords in something like Keeper for iPhone/Android. If someone steals your phone hopefully they won't get your passwords.

12. Put a GPS tag on large objects - trailers - cars (LoJack). This way if they vanish you can find them.

13. Lock your doors. Out in the country people don't think of this - in the city it matters.

14. When you park your car look at the ground up and down the block for pieces of car safety glass. It's very easy to spot this in bad neighborhoods you'll see what happened to the last few victims of car theft.

15. Watch out for drug rehab clinics, juvenile halls, shelters or any place people might congregate and be desperate.

16. Avoid excessive shows of wealth.

17. Wear good shoes. Urban cities are usually walkable - be prepared in case you need to run.

18. The firearm you carry can be the weapon that kills you. Always be aware of your proximity to someone dangerous enough to have to use that weapon. If they are close enough they can use it against you.

19. Do not leave valuables unpacked in your hotel/motel. Make them large and hard to hide if they leave when you are not there.

20. Keep your clothes off the floor in hotel/motel. Check the beds for bugs (even in the 5 star places). If the room smells sweetly musky ask for another. Sleep in pajamas both as a precaution in the event of an evacuation and because if there are bugs it is a layer of protection. When you get home put your luggage someplace hot if you can. Also I dust my luggage with diatomaceous earth and leave it on a pan covered with that for a day or 2 if I can. You only need this surprise once and you don't want to take it home with you.

21. Try to travel in well lit areas of high traffic. Dark alleys and areas where bystanders might not see you raise your risk.

22. If you must congregate try to do so in places with video surveillance for yourself and your vehicles. Barring that - try to make sure there are eyes to watch the on goings.

23. If you witness criminal activity report it to the police after you insure your own safety.

24. Do not make a spectacle of reporting something to the police you may put yourself at risk.

25. Make sure you secure the load in any vehicle: it's a safety hazard and it can open your vehicle up to mischief and items getting misplaced.

26. If you are leaving the United States with a vehicle ask your insurance company for the Canadian or Mexican insurance papers.

27. If you are on the road and have an accident - be sure someone knows where you are - and try to bring lightly damaged vehicles to rest in a well lit areas.

28. Tell bank and credit card companies of travel plans, lest they think you are stealing your own cards.

29. Keep a list of emergency numbers somewhere: include travel agents, airlines, airports, hotels/motels, relatives, doctors, train companies and car rental companies.

30. If travel plans change make sure someone not travelling with you knows that.

31. Know what you have packed and if you are leaving the Country be prepared to answer any questions at customs.

32. Do not wear clothes, paint vehicles or decal anything in way that is likely to incite trouble. Locals can have -much- less mercy for people that casually invite trouble.

33. Know the local street parking laws and watch for tricks. For example - in Philadelphia a painted curb indicating no parking might be all it takes to get towed (and they like to tow with generally a nearly $200 bill when you get to your car not including a taxi ride to the 'interesting' end of town).

34. Yellow taxis with medallions are generally the fair rate. Uber and the like might be options but be aware of their current political issues and the risk they don't check their drivers. Private cars that pick you up unsolicited can easily rip you off so be very careful. Be careful how you pay - I like to pay drivers with cash. Swiping your bank card for a cab ride can set you up for a credit card theft.

35. If you have credit of any kind - make them setup verbal passwords on the accounts. Credit and identity theft are a mess to clean up. I've dealt with plenty of small banks that might actually fight you on this.

36. Be aware of how your ATM card will behave when you travel. For example some American debit cards only permit withdrawals in local currency, but won't accept currency deposits at all. This means I leave a signed check and deposit slip at home where a trusted party can deposit or withdraw money for me if things go wrong.

37. Bring a smartphone with suitable service. Make sure you understand the terms of that service. Be prepared for the complexities of cell phone services. For example: in the United States I use T-Mobile for one GSM smartphone but in Canada I swap the SIM for Wind Mobile. I have Canadian and United States service arrangements for both - I swap the SIMs to get more service. I also have a VOIP client on that Android phone so I can use WiFi to make calls if both T-Mobile and Wind fail me (did that a few times in Billy Bishop outside of Toronto where there is free WiFi).

38. Priceline.com is a great tool if you miss your travel arrangement. I've seen a lot of people stranded at airports because someone at the airline can't help them find last minute lodgings. Often times you can book a room on Priceline for whatever has a decent room at the last minute and within 1-2 hours you can show up for that room at a great price. Sure your trip just got a little more expensive, but sleeping at the airport is not as fun as it sounds.

39. Look up occasionally. Especially in places with tall buildings you should consider what happens if someone washing windows drops a tool. In the old days, and in some places still, people throw trash and liquids out windows.

40. Don't walk on manhole covers. It rarely happens but when things go wrong you'd prefer to be a few feet to either side. This is especially true in places like NYC with the World's largest steam system in operation since 1882. (Fun fact the Woolworth Building used to have steam turbines to make electricity from the steam.)

41. Watch for open basement doors and elevators. Walking down the sidewalk not paying attention? See you next trip, enjoy the fall ;).

42. People sometimes drive on sidewalks. Don't assume that you are entirely safe there.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

...Indianapolis...

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

I wholeheartedly believe that if the GDC said a team could win a gold-trimmed blue banner at championships for getting a robot to the moon, some team would manage to get it done.

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Only the mentor built NASA teams obviously. :rolleyes:

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

You're saying there's no petty crime in downtown Indianapolis?

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Hawaii.:D

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

43 Don't walk around with your nose in a smart phone.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

A couple of years ago 20 wanted to go to the Hawaii Regional so badly, but our administration said we could only go to one really long distance trip each year (meaning St. Louis OR Hawaii).

This would very much solve that problem :D

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

44. Know your pedestrian right-of-way laws. For example in Las Vegas if you jay walk and get hit by a car you can get penalized as the pedestrian.

45. If you are opening a garage door on days that rain/snow and people have hoods and umbrellas - open it all the way they might not see it (yes I think my forehead still has a mark).

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

maybe the champs could be held on the west coast...

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

After reading these threads, I think the only solution is the cancel the championship and all FIRST events. The world is just too much of a dangerous place.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

very good..

In fact, come to think of it, I will just sit here in my bunker......just push my food through the slot in the front door......

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Hopefully FIRST teams have enough foresight to avoid the fate of lemmings.

In fact maybe a real test for FIRST teams is who can survive the Championships in the best shape and include the team's membership :).

I can see the discussions now...Team A only lost 3 students...Team B is still looking for their mentor...Team C has gone literally off the map.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

How to be maximize your safety in any area:

1. Be aware of your surroundings and use common sense

/endlist

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

Common sense is the best distributed thing in the world, for we all think we possess a good share of it.

RENÉ DESCARTES, Discours de la Méthode

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

You may be right. Not one of the declared gang-areas in Indy overlaps with the Stadium.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...E42VRiTY&hl=en

In addition it's only 4 times above the national median for violent crimes committed. On a crime index of 1 to 100, with 100 being the safest, Indy is rated "3". Mmm warm fuzzies.

If you're feeling upset - don't. This is all tongue in cheek. We love going down to Indy for IRI and other events and have never had an issue and will continue to travel there at every opportunity. However, as long as people choose to continue to bring up this ridiculous safety 'issue', I'm going to continue to have fun with it.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

I made it a point to get Poutine in Toronto when I went there. Even Wendy's and Burger King sold it.

Re: Location of World Championships/safety
 

When they had a list of some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in America there were a couple of listings of parts of Indianapolis.