Lowest Finals Scores
 

So some of my students on 20 and 5254 were discussing our slightly infamous match at the 2015 New York Tech Valley Regional where we scored only 18 points in our first finals match due to horrible luck and fouls.

Aside from matches with Red Cards, was this the lowest finals match score of 2015? Additionally, how does this compare to other years compared to their average scores?

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

How did your team get fouls in Recycle Rush?

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

They probably dropped a stack and some or all of it exited the field or crossed to the other side of the field. That or they got some sort of chute door foul that they may or may not have deserved.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

It's not all THAT hard. Late noodles. Improper handling of the, yes, chute door. The odd departure of a tote/can (or 5) from your half of the playing field. Having the coach forget he isn't supposed to handle totes and litter. Hands in the field (you'd be surprised how many HPs stretch a little too far trying to load litter in the container).

I believe it's actually theoretically possible to get three fouls on ONE play, without involving the robot. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure that one out...

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

At my team's regional we never saw any fouls, and I never received a foul as an HP even though our main source of points was throwing noodles.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

That is good.

Speaking out where I am, I reffed 2 events and watched another event's matches from the stands. Week 1, Week 3, Week 5.

1) Lots of "dumb" fouls by the humans. We got most of 'em in practice, but a number of other times someone just forgot what was going on. A couple of totes going over the step happened a time or two.

3) Not as many fouls, but still quite a few, as I recall. Again, mainly humans.

5) Long stretches without a foul... but we did issue a few in practice. Aside from a yellow card after the first match (team entered the field too early) and a rapid-fire sequence of fouls late in the first day, the refs mostly just stood there. I don't think we called a single robot foul, but several humans were over the wall or throwing late (the #1 most common foul, I think).

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

Lowest at VA was 84 (Red Alliance, F1). Lowest winning score was 102 (Blue Alliance, F2).

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

Most likely either inadvertently propping the chute door open or knocking over a stack and causing totes to break the plane of the opponent's field.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

Now in Indiana, I don't think we ever had a match that one alliance got 0 points but I remember looking through blue alliance after week 1 and seeing many 0 scores at different regionals. I guess some teams couldn't move totes to the scoring platform or got a few totes on the platform but had fouls too.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

The lowest scoring finals match I saw was at Seneca (MAR) with the finalist alliance scoring 55 points. I have seen my share of 0 point scores, mainly due to fouls, robot malfunctions, and under-practiced drivers.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

For New England, excluding the district Championship, the lowest score was Rhode Island Finals match 3 with a score of 48 points. The Hartford District had both the highest scores of 207 in Finals 1 (losing score was 174 and was the fourth highest score in Finals) and 210 in Finals 2.

The District Championship had scores of 239 in Finals 1 and 256 in Finals 2.

It shouldn't be a shock that the four high scores were put up with 195 on the alliance. ;) 2067 also was a part of the DCMP high scores and the Hartford Finals score of 174. Both incredible machines.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

There you go, thinking again. :-)

I checked with The Blue Alliance and found one example, Qualification Match 22 at the Indianapolis event. There's video of the match available, if you want to feel depressed about a lack of robot performance.

https://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2015inind_qm22

I thought I saw a playoff match with a red card, which should have given the entire alliance a score of 0. I don't remember the details of how the card was taken back and the score preserved.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

Here is the lowest final score data from the last fourteen years, ignoring unofficial events and scores equal or less than zero.
I can run more or different calculations if anyone would like.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

Are you talking about the Phyxed Red Card incident?

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

Haha. Thanks. And I was dumb too because this stream was only suppose to be finals scores. Haha

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

We got two G18 fouls for contact over the step. We had a 610 style "Crossbow" can grabber.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

Finals 2 at the West Valley district event was 87-49
https://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2015waspo_f1m2

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

For the 2015 North Carolina Regional the finals consisted of Alliance 1 (1225, 2059, and 900) versus Alliance 6 (3971, 587, and 2640).

Finals 1: Alliance 1- 93....... Alliance 6- 90


Finals 2: Alliance 1- 72....... Alliance 6- 65


Reasonably low score for the second finals match because both alliances had a robot that was not useful because of lift mechanism malfunction.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

Human player's hand crosses over the wall while throwing a noodle in the last 20 seconds that knocks over a cooperation stack onto the opponent's side? That would be 6 fouls if you count a foul for each tote? It could theoretically be 8 fouls if all 6 yellow totes were stacked.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

The only red card I remember entering in FMS was SF1 at Indy, due to the tether debacle. That one stayed too. That said, due to illness I missed the last day of state champs, so it is possible that something happened then.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

Idea to add yet another foul:
Two human players are throwing the noodle cooperatively, and thus are in the same HP zone
:p

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

You guys are nuts... Haha ;) I will try to convince our human player (one of the best in the league this year when throwing noodles) to try to knock over 6 stacks. lol

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

It couldn't have been SF1. Neither of those alliances played in the next match, and nobody would have tethered to a robot on the field. I was reasonably sure the incident happened between SF2 and SF3 (both played by Alliance 8), but The Blue Aliance doesn't show anything unusual.

I found the match results on the FIRST web site, and it too shows a nonzero score for SF2. However, it shows the three teams on Alliance 8 as *disqualified*, verifying that as the red card match. So apparently the official score stands, while the teams involved don't get to count it.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

If it's the human player knocking over the stack, is it still a foul?


What I'm getting:

Single action with the most fouls: 6 fouls

A drive coach (G31) goes into a HP station where a HP is already there (G31), and throws a tote over the HP station wall (G34, and G31 again) while holding onto the chute door (G6) intending to damage an opposing robot (G26).



Single match with the most fouls: 175 fouls, 1 yellow card

During auto, the drive teams wear devices connecting to the driver station (G20), cross the starting line (G19), and touch the driver station (G21).
= 3 fouls and 1 yellow card

Then two drive coaches (G31) go into the same HP station (G5) and hold onto the chute door (G6) while reaching over the HP station wall (G4), throwing all 30 totes and 10 noodles over the wall (in the last 20 seconds) (G33, G34) intending each tote to damage an opposing robot (G26), while the rest of the drive teams leave the alliance stations (G30).
= 172 fouls



Breakdown for teleop:
40 fouls for coach touching totes/litter
40 fouls for reaching into the field
31 (?) fouls for having two people in the HP station (initial foul, then one for each tote entered)
30 fouls for touching the chute door and totes
30 fouls for damage
1 foul for leaving alliance station

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

There is no foul for knocking over somebody's stack, IF the human does it via a flying noodle. I specifically left the robots out. (For a robot, the max is 7 "points" fouls in one move--tips a canned 6-stack out of bounds or over the step.)


But, you got 2/3.

Coach throws noodle in the last 20 seconds and puts hand over the wall while doing it. G31/G33/G4

2/3 of THAT one did happen at one event. I'm still not sure who threw the SECOND late noodle in that match...


Rachel, if the coach operates the chute door, it's a G6-2 red card, not a G6 penalty. G6 only kicks in if they're handling the totes at the same time. That being said, 30 penalties for the coach holding the chute door and throwing totes over the wall... At some point, the ref is just going to pull out the very last resort red card: Egregious Behavior. A red card so rarely (never?) used, it doesn't have it's own rule number (Section 5.5.4).

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

If we're talking about low quals matches https://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2015gape_qm2
Abandoning co-op is never a good idea, I was in this match as HP and both alliances had agreed to do co-op, when the match started, the red alliance showed no attempt (that i can remember) of putting yellow totes on the step, the blue alliance failed to realize this until it was to late to get any totes from the landfill/throw noodles. It was just an overall bad match.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

What if the coach threw a tote knocking over 6 co-op totes onto the other side of the field, also damaging the 6 co-op totes. 12 more fouls haha

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

This is an instance of TBA reporting bad data.
SF-2 was officially scored as a 0 for the match. The 106 points scored were completely erased at the event, as per the 2015 rules.
However, since the 0 was a result of the red card, it does not qualify for this thread. It has indeed been christened the "Phyxt-Red-Card" incident in honor of the alliance teams.
Personally, this was the source of both my heart breaking when it happened, then swelling at the teams' response.

The affected teams petitioned FRC HQ to review the incident, and HQ graciously allowed the three alliance members ten district points. These points allowed 1741 to qualify for the World Championship event, where they were quarterfinalists on Newton.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

In the past, red cards were given alliance scores of zero officially in the system, and indeed it was at the event. (we had a double-red card elimination match in 2011 where the "lesser" red card got 1 point and the "worse" red card alliance got 0 points. Back then it was W-L in eliminations. It was a simpler time...)

If you recall, week 1 events weren't updated in the FMS due to some nasty network/API issues at HQ. The official event scores weren't updated for several days (I think almost week 2). I wonder if the asterisks and italics is the new way of indicating DQ since it's was impossible to tell before if the zero was due to DQ or zero score. For qualifications, it also lets you know if a team received zero points while the alliance didn't.
Does anyone know of another playoff match that had a red card this year to compare?

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

F-2 of Hopper was the most famous, resulting from the long can battle between 987 and 1218. The red alliance received 0 points as recorded on TBA and the finals was taken to a third match.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

Yeah, so it shows 0 on the FIRST web page too http://frc-events.usfirst.org/2015/HOPPER/playoffs

The inconsistency here seems to indicate that the ININD playoff score may have been manually entered ex post facto, potentially due to the FMS debacle.

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

The lowest finals match score I can think of happened at the Mount Vernon district due to the Finalist alliance's main scorer's lift not working. final score of F2 was 128 to 45.

https://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2015wamou_f1m2

the lowest match I saw was my team's first match. No points were scored by our alliance, at all in a 0-24 game.

https://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2015waamv_qm1

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

It says it right on the FIRST page:

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

Whoops... memory failed me again.

IIRC red cards have shown as 0 in the past. Actually, this year, in FMS, things seemed different, as the 0 was only showing up as a drop in average score (unless my memory is backwards again, after scorekeeping 5 official events and one offseason so far it kinda turns to mush). That said, cards in playoffs were for a few weeks at least problematic, as due to a bug they wouldn't carry correctly. So yes, the score of 0 is bad reporting, at least technically.

edit- I do not recall manaully zeroing the score. I do recall seing the score not zero, and being told by the FTAs to look at the averages, which being the alliance's first match of the semifinals (hence why I for some reason remembered it being SF1, DOH!), zeroed out the average score on the leaderboard.

Being "after the fact" I think I can also safely share this; due to a brain fart behind the scoring table no formal timeout was ever entered in FMS during the timeout in question; Nobody told me to and I wasn't aware that the period was to be entered as such in FMS (as in the past, the similar "breaks" between back to back matches were not done through FMS, unlike couponed timeouts). Given the number of changes this year I guess that particular one slipped between the cracks. So, in a way, I guess I'm partly to blame, sorta? Week 1's are full of growing pains... If it is any consolation, that goof never happened again when I was scorekeeping.

I was scorekeeping that field too... but not that match; that match was scorekept by Hopper's other scorekeeper, Rob, as he did all the playoff matches that didn't have his team, 1676, in it.

Am I a red card magnet this year?... Nah. IRI IIRC had no red cards, so much for that theory...

Re: Lowest Finals Scores
 

I know it says that. I meant in place of zeroing the score, but now we've been shown inconsistent results for red card application.