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-   -   FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138138)

cgmv123 10-09-2015 17:20
FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...-Play-for-2016

Quote:
Today's blog comes from Miriam Somero, FRC District Manager.

A cross-functional task force, which included volunteers from all eight FRC Districts, met to evaluate the 2015 inter-district play experience and propose a plan for inter-district play for 2016.

In the 2015 season, Districts collaborated with FIRST HQ to fill any “open” district event spots with teams from other districts. An “open district spot” is defined as a spot that remains open after all teams in a district have had the opportunity to sign up for their two events plus any additional plays they desire. In 2015, we had seven district teams take advantage of this new opportunity and play inter-district.

In the 2016 season inter-district play will continue much in the same manner as 2015.

Teams playing at a district event outside their home district will treat the out-of-district event in the same way that an in-district team treats an additional district event, meaning no points will be earned, but with a few additional caveats:
  1. The event will be considered an “additional event” regardless of when it actually occurs. Example: A team from MAR signs up for its two official MAR district events, one on Week 1 and one on Week 4. Additionally, the team signs up for one of the open spots in New England during Week 3. Even though the New England event is before the team’s second official MAR event, the event will be treated as an additional event and the team would not earn any points at the New England event. We will retain the concept of teams only being able to earn points within their own districts. This concept will be reevaluated at the end of the 2016 season.
  2. Additionally, the out-of-district team would not be eligible for the three Culture Changing Awards: Chairman’s Award, Engineering Inspiration Award, or Rookie All Star. These may be earned only at events within their home district. They will be eligible to win all other awards, but again, they will not earn points for these. The task force feels strongly that these most prestigious of all FRC awards should be reserved for in-district and recognized that presenting these awards to teams from outside the districts would lead to complications at the District Championship level. This direction, though, as the one above, will be evaluated at the end of the 2016 season.

The cost to register for an additional play at a district event outside a team’s home district is $1,000. Teams will continue to transport their robots to the event themselves. Each event may decide whether or not to provide drayage facilities for out-of-district teams. Drayage arrangements, if any, will be posted on the event’s website. If no drayage arrangements are available through the district, it will be the out-of-district team’s responsibility, logistically and financially, to make their own arrangements to get their robot to the event.

The one change for the coming season that the task force did recommend is a change in the timing of registration. They had feedback from teams that they did not participate last year as registration for inter-district events was so late that teams could not make all the necessary arrangements for travel.

The registration process will be as follows:

In-District additional play registration will open Thursday, November 5th, 2015, the same day as unrestricted registration for regionals.

Inter-District registration will begin 1 week later, Thursday, November 12th
  • All teams registering inter-district will be put onto the waitlist

Registration closes & payments are due from the teams November 23rd

Teams will be notified shortly after December 11 as to whether or not a slot is available for them.

Non-district FRC teams will continue to not be eligible to participate in events within districts.

These decisions are final for the upcoming season, but as noted above, this system will be reviewed once again at the end of the 2016. Please send feedback on possible changes to inter-district play for the 2017 season to frcteams@usfirst.org. If you are a District team, be sure also to give your feedback to your District management, as each District has direct representation on the task force making these recommendations.

RoboDawg 12-09-2015 23:58
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
This hurts.

"Non-district FRC teams will continue to not be eligible to participate in events within districts."

Once again we are excluded from our home. Seven years of alliance building and rivalry. Sigh.

On the road again.

waialua359 13-09-2015 06:02
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboDawg (Post 1495840)
This hurts.

"Non-district FRC teams will continue to not be eligible to participate in events within districts."
Ditto.

Michael Hill 13-09-2015 07:51
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboDawg (Post 1495840)
This hurts.

"Non-district FRC teams will continue to not be eligible to participate in events within districts."

Once again we are excluded from our home. Seven years of alliance building and rivalry. Sigh.

On the road again.
yup...It's really a way to further punish less sustainable regions. Additionally, it makes it less attractive for universities to host events because many want to attract non-local students. Since they get walled off from out of state students, the schools stop caring.

IKE 13-09-2015 09:24
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hill (Post 1495860)
yup...It's really a way to further punish less sustainable regions. Additionally, it makes it less attractive for universities to host events because many want to attract non-local students. Since they get walled off from out of state students, the schools stop caring.
I seriously doubt it is meant to punish less sustainable regions. Does it make it more difficult, yes, but punishment seems like the wrong word.

I do hope they are able to open inter district to teams traditionally doing regionals, but for various reasons, I see why they are not opeing it up yet.

I suspect we will continue to see the trend of "out of district" play being early in the season for many teams. There are a lot of good reasons to do a tune-up outside of your district. Hopefully this will fill and balance the early and (sometimes difficult to fill) events. It will also be a trip early in comp season which often helps form team unity. I am anxious to see how much this is taken advantage of this next year.

jeremy callahan 14-09-2015 08:46
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
I understand your concerns but I believe you are going about it the wrong way, and think you need to take action in your community. So you, and your community can be more engaging with districts. In FRC we are always tasked with going up against the powerhouse teams. when you do play them we most often get destroyed, but you improve and strive to be like them and grow. So you and your community needs to strive to be like the districts and grow. Instead of saying how disappointing it is not to be them, and give up. The districts aren't going to stop growing because of the teams that haven't adapted yet.

logank013 14-09-2015 10:35
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboDawg (Post 1495840)
This hurts.

"Non-district FRC teams will continue to not be eligible to participate in events within districts."

Once again we are excluded from our home. Seven years of alliance building and rivalry. Sigh.

On the road again.
I don't even understand that rule. When Michigan teams come to participate in the IN districts, it is strictly practice. Why can't Illinois teams and Ohio teams come to IN district events for practice too. It just doesn't make sense. I bet the only reason is the fact that going to a district event that means nothing will give regional teams extra time to change their robot for 1/5 of the price rendering some regionals unfair due to some teams having more time to change their robot.

Andrew Schreiber 14-09-2015 11:47
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by logank013 (Post 1495957)
I don't even understand that rule. When Michigan teams come to participate in the IN districts, it is strictly practice. Why can't Illinois teams and Ohio teams come to IN district events for practice too. It just doesn't make sense. I bet the only reason is the fact that going to a district event that means nothing will give regional teams extra time to change their robot for 1/5 of the price rendering some regionals unfair due to some teams having more time to change their robot.
Follow the money, you'll find an answer

Michael Corsetto 14-09-2015 12:58
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1495966)
Follow the money, you'll find an answer
QFT

Brian Maher 14-09-2015 14:50
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
Let's look at a hypothetical in which regional teams can compete in district events as practice:

An additional regional:
  • Cost $4000 to register for.
  • Gives 8-12 extra qualification matches.
  • Provides additional chances to qualify for CMP.
  • Higher quality event production

An additional district event:
  • Cost $1000 to register for.
  • Gives 12 extra qualification matches.
  • Doesn't provide additional chances to qualify for CMP.
  • Lower quality event production

What are you getting by going to a regional over a district event?
  • 0 to 4 fewer plays
  • Additional chances to qualify for CMP.
  • A better produced event

What are you paying for this? $3000 (assuming no difference in transportation/logistics costs)

While for some teams, the nicer event, increased CMP chances, and travel opportunities are worth $3000, many others would likely prefer to save $3000. FIRST would lose a nice chunk of change by allowing regional teams to go to district events.

Knufire 14-09-2015 14:54
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMSOTM (Post 1495980)
Let's look at a hypothetical in which regional teams can compete in district events as practice:

An additional regional:
  • Cost $4000 to register for.
  • Gives 8-12 extra qualification matches.
  • Provides additional chances to qualify for CMP.
  • Higher quality event production

An additional district event:
  • Cost $1000 to register for.
  • Gives 12 extra qualification matches.
  • Doesn't provide additional chances to qualify for CMP.
  • Lower quality event production

What are you getting by going to a regional over a district event?
  • 0 to 4 fewer plays
  • Additional chances to qualify for CMP.
  • A better produced event

What are you paying for this? $3000 (assuming no difference in transportation/logistics costs)

While for some teams, the nicer event, increased CMP chances, and travel opportunities are worth $3000. However, many others would likely prefer to save $3000. FIRST would lose a nice chunk of change by allowing regional teams to go to district events.
Just to clarify, FIRST HQ would lose the entire $4000. When you register for an out-of-district event, your $1000 registration fee goes to the regional nonprofit in charge of that district (IndianaFIRST, FIRST in Michigan, etc.).

PayneTrain 14-09-2015 16:25
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knufire (Post 1495982)
Just to clarify, FIRST HQ would lose the entire $4000. When you register for an out-of-district event, your $1000 registration fee goes to the regional nonprofit in charge of that district (IndianaFIRST, FIRST in Michigan, etc.).
Yeah, inter-district play is an agreement between other regions designed to make sure all 40 slots at an event are full. Enabling any teams is a byproduct.

waialua359 14-09-2015 16:44
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy callahan (Post 1495948)
I understand your concerns but I believe you are going about it the wrong way, and think you need to take action in your community. So you, and your community can be more engaging with districts. In FRC we are always tasked with going up against the powerhouse teams. when you do play them we most often get destroyed, but you improve and strive to be like them and grow. So you and your community needs to strive to be like the districts and grow. Instead of saying how disappointing it is not to be them, and give up. The districts aren't going to stop growing because of the teams that haven't adapted yet.
While I understand your overall message, I dont think the reason is because of jealousy. This isnt a crab in the bucket situation. Districts are the way to go from a cost standpoint, and to me personally, it makes no difference whether I'm in a high school gym or in a big arena competing in an FRC event. Last year however, we did a "regional" held in a high school gym. Cost was $5,000 to compete.
I'm hoping that while districts continue to increase in the years to come, that non-district teams have a chance to help fill slots AFTER every district team has had a chance to sign up.
We want to play in Michigan one day,......we hope.

Mr V 14-09-2015 19:13
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMSOTM (Post 1495980)
Let's look at a hypothetical in which regional teams can compete in district events as practice:

An additional regional:
  • Cost $4000 to register for.
  • Gives 8-12 extra qualification matches.
  • Provides additional chances to qualify for CMP.
  • Higher quality event production

An additional district event:
  • Cost $1000 to register for.
  • Gives 12 extra qualification matches.
  • Doesn't provide additional chances to qualify for CMP.
  • Lower quality event production

What are you getting by going to a regional over a district event?
  • 0 to 4 fewer plays
  • Additional chances to qualify for CMP.
  • A better produced event

What are you paying for this? $3000 (assuming no difference in transportation/logistics costs)

While for some teams, the nicer event, increased CMP chances, and travel opportunities are worth $3000, many others would likely prefer to save $3000. FIRST would lose a nice chunk of change by allowing regional teams to go to district events.
I'm not so sure about "a better produced event" as being a benefit of going to a Regional. Comparing our PNW events to the Regionals we had in the past there might be a bigger screen, but it is usually farther away and they fly in lighting so that the house lights are off/way down and only the field is well lit. The AV and other production qualities are substantially the same between the previous Regionals and the current District events. In fact some of our District events have been held in the same College Gyms and even the total number of teams in attendance is not that far off in the one case.

Now I've never been to an event in another district so I can't speak to their production values, though IN pretty much copied our selection of A/V equipment and a number of our key A/V team took our equipment to IRI 2014 and showed what we do and how we do it.

Look back through the archives and you'll find a lot of people who wish that the production values of Regionals was as high as it is in the PNW district, particularly the streaming and live video feed.

first3234 14-09-2015 22:38
Re: FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by waialua359 (Post 1495995)
While I understand your overall message, I dont think the reason is because of jealousy. This isnt a crab in the bucket situation. Districts are the way to go from a cost standpoint, and to me personally, it makes no difference whether I'm in a high school gym or in a big arena competing in an FRC event. Last year however, we did a "regional" held in a high school gym. Cost was $5,000 to compete.
I'm hoping that while districts continue to increase in the years to come, that non-district teams have a chance to help fill slots AFTER every district team has had a chance to sign up.
We want to play in Michigan one day,......we hope.
When Hawaii goes to districts and if there's spots available we will welcome you here to Michigan


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