Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

I'd be wary to trust my academic and professional future in the hands of any college that does not recalculate GPA to normalize different scoring systems.

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

+1

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

I'll echo that this has been a great solution for the students on our team. Sanddrag, if this is an option for your program, I would look into it. As Devin said, it allows a wide variety of students to take the class and benefit, no matter what "academic track" they are on.

If you want more info, PM me and I can put you in touch with our Lead Mentor who established our courses at the high school.

-Mike

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

Honestly, I don't think there's much reason to worry about robotics bringing your GPA down closer to 4.0. If you're that concerned that "optional classes" you didn't have to take for graduation lowered your GPA and might affect your ability to get in somewhere, then you have ample opportunity to talk about! Make it a focus of one of your admissions essays (write about how the robotics classes impacted you, and end with a tag line "even though it lowered my GPA, it was well worth it"). When you visit the college and interview with someone there, bring it up in the interview - "i was wondering how my GPA compares to your typical applicant", and as that conversation progresses, "i knew it was going to lower my GPA, but I felt that taking this robotics course would help me because...".

Personally, I never found GPA to be much of an issue when applying to colleges, and I applied to some rather tough ones. The tough ones are all going to look at much more than just GPA, as others have said... And Schools that don't look past the provided GPA probably aren't going to be difficult for someone with a 4.0+ to get into!

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

Yep, Michigan definitely does recalculate GPAs (my unweighed was not quite a 3.97, but I still got in :) ). They also constantly stress that they consider course load, the schools where the classes were taken, etc. rather than strictly looking at GPA on its own. I'd guesstimate that doing robotics probably would outweigh the difference in GPA, if it's a deciding factor for some students. Pass/Fail seems like a reasonable compromise, although if I'm a college, I'm wondering why the student took that class Pass/Fail rather than for a grade (and I'm not sure I'd be thrilled with "so their GPA would be higher").

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

+1, Same scenario at our high school.

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

Colleges recalculate your GPA based on their own standards. The only area I could see this hurting is in class rankings.


Honestly, the bigger issue here is how this emphasizes our cultural demand for perfectionism. It isn't healthy.

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

Absolutely agree. If I learned one thing in FRC as a student it was that you take a lot more out of your failures than you do your successes. By promoting a culture of taking an easier route to success, we aren't advocating for real learning.

This isn't a problem that anyone on Chief Delphi is disagreeing with. It's about the culture outside of us that we need to continue changing.

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

Same. I graduated in 98 with a 3.7. Messed around my freshman year then straight A's the last three years and took every AP class offered, but there was no grade inflation. An A was 4 points no matter what.

I think kids worry too much about a perfect GPA. Good colleges are going to look at that and figure it out for themselves. If you're applying to a college that only looks at the GPA and not what constituted it, then you're applying to the wrong college. Every 'good' college I applied to ended up interviewing me. They never once asked about my GPA - they asked what practical experience I had. My out-of-school programming job, home economics course, cad-cam course, band, tennis, robotics, sailing, and community service etc constituted the entirety of the conversation. In fact, I made a joke about the fact that I belonged to three 'honors societies' that I wanted nothing to do with because they didn't add to me as a person (NHS, Golden Key, and Beta Club). I thought they were pointless, and a couple of my interviewers agreed =).

In the end, even the college that I went to really didn't make a difference. The co-op I had DURING college got me my first out-of-college job. And when you ask all the professionals you work with where they went to school you'll hear a lot of school names you won't recognize. Yet they have great jobs too.

If you are smart and work hard, don't sweat it.

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

It is unhealthy, but if you want to keep up sometimes it's necessary for those who are aiming for the highest tier of schools. Taking classes like robotics at our school can potentially put you out of the running for the top 10 altogether, and even lower if you've ever gotten a B.

I wish GPA/class rank didn't have such a big emphasis, but that's the game high schoolers are being forced to play.

And I realize that there's more to life than GPA and class rank and what college you go to. I'm just saying that at some point, every applicant to some schools (i.e Ivy League) begins to have several valuable extracurriculars and very good test scores, with remarkable stories int heir essays. Naturally, students shooting for these colleges will be looking to squeeze out every advantage they can for their applications, one being their GPA and class rank.

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

This seems like looking for a solution to a problem that isn't a problem.

If you took nothing but AP classes your soph through senior years, your GPA would be like 4.6 without robotics and 4.5 with robotics.

I highly, highly doubt this actually harms you with a potential future college.

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

In my high school, you need at least a 4.3 GPA to be top 10%, which is where you need to be for automatic admission to most state schools in Texas. If you are applying to UT, your GPA needs to be greater because their auto admit cutoff is around 7%.

Needless to say, auto admit makes Texas high school students very serious about GPA. The valedictorian of my class sits at around a 4.8 GPA. Sure you take all APs and make your grade, but for many students that is difficult to do with robotics, and would rather focus on their guaranteed college acceptance rather than a really awesome extracurricular activity.

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

I think GPA is important, but not most important, to the holistic review of colleges. Most look at all that you've done, and also admissions officers often look at your record in the context of your school. (For example, not all schools offer as many AP classes as others) Also, recommendations and interviews are increasingly popular, and these can showcase your abilities outside of class. If you're spending so much time in robotics, maybe your teacher would be a great person to ask for a recommendation! :) My school has a "brag sheet" for us to fill out before a counselor writes a rec, and one of the questions is "Is your high school academic record an accurate measure of your ability and potential? If not, what do you consider the best measure of your potential?" I don't know exactly how my counselor will reflect on that (if she does at all), but something like that may be a good thing to put in your applications if there is a spot (i.e. the Common App's personal statement box) And yes, some schools calculate GPA differently, such as the University of Tennessee, who unweights them and recalculates only certain ones (and if you've taken more than what is required, they may only look at your highest in that subject. For example, I've taken 4 art classes total, but UT would only look at my highest unweighted score.)

But yes, I do agree that GPA stacking is a problem. Not only does it sometimes unfairly inflate GPA, it also takes away from other experiences you could have in high school. I am an excellent student in AP and honors academic classes, but I have also taken leadership, theater, photography, speech, wildlife, and leadership. Are those going to make me appear a weaker student because I did not take certain AP's? No - if anything, they will show that I am well-rounded. Plus, I'm not interested in all the AP's my school offers, nor do I want to sacrifice parts of my schedule to take them.

Now, back to robotics. I can say that I would not be in robotics for my 4th year now if I had had to give up some of my classes (on my school's block scheduling, that's a whole semester if I took it once a year!). But I have an idea for you. See if you can create some kind of robotics-related project outside the competition. Maybe you can do research, or solve a problem through designing something. Make this opportunity available for students who have done robotics for at least two years (or one so that it can add to GPA sooner) and make it so that their participation in that can count as honors credit. This could be done in the offseason so that it would not interfere with the REAL March Madness. ;) (Source of the idea: My school has a STEM Scholars program where about 20 juniors and seniors are in groups researching something. We haven't started our research yet, but upon completion, we will get an extra certificate at graduation, and we can put this on our resumes. All this is out of class, although some get permission to reserve a class period to focus on that instead of taking a class.)

Hope this helps!

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

As well as some of the collegiate engineering competitions. See "robotics with your classes applied to the challenge first". I went to a college with a very strong "hands-on" component. 2 projects sophomore year... 1+ junior year... senior design... and I was on one of the engineering competition teams. That team led to one of the quickest "knowledge turnarounds" I've ever done--calculating how much drag force a turnbuckle would likely generate (and thus, the odds of needing more power than available) right after I'd learned drag. Had to ask the prof what the best strategy was for doing drag on odd shapes...

Re: "A" in Robotics = Lower GPA?
 

I would not worry about this. Most universities are looking at the full picture of who the applicants are as people, what makes them tick, what they might contribute to the campus, and whether they would be able to thrive at the school. It is not just a question of who has the highest combination of GPA and SAT/ACT score, and schools do recognize how different weighting systems can effect weighted GPAs.

I would focus your energy on taking classes that interest and challenge you at a level that is manageable to you. Make the most of the opportunities and resources you have available to you.

If you are interested in going into the STEM fields, having hands-on experience like robotics will reflect well on you when you apply to college, scholarships, internships, and careers. Don't worry about it's effect on your weighted GPA.