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[FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Submissions Definitions
Posted on the FRC Blog, 10/12/15: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...ns-Definitions
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I really like this. Providing a standard vocabulary should make Chairman's applications easier for teams, since they won't have to worry about misrepresenting themselves. Furthermore, it will, along with the published winning Chairman's submissions, provide greater accountability in the FRC community. I'm glad these definitions are provided to us during our first year of creating a Chairman's submission.
Thank you Frank and the HoF teams! |
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The definitions are straight forward. What I love is the requirement that the team being helped has to agree to the relationship or that the help took place. Would this mean that teams will have to submit the team numbers or substantiating documentation to put these claims in the chairman's essay?
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Not to descend into my standard winter/spring behavior too early, but why does this matter if there isn't really a lot of teeth to this? I think it's a step forward but how is this actually supposed to be enforced significantly better than what we had before?
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By "event", do they mean JFLL Expo / FLL, FTC tournament / FRC district competition or just a generic "event"?
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Part of the problem we've had in the past, I think, is teams taking credit for "starting" or "mentoring" a team that existed in their school system, even if they didn't have much interaction with them - after all, if they held a kickoff event the team attended, or talked with them once or twice during the season, that's interaction enough, right? Some people/teams may have said so honestly while others did not. Now the new definitions give teams a benchmark to measure themselves against, something they have never had before. |
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If teams actually do adhere to these definitions, I would expect to see a dramatic reduction in the number of teams claimed as being started, mentored or events previously claimed as being run by teams... The big question is whether or not judges are going to attempt to verify said claims. Hopefully CA judges won't continue to be swayed so much by the number claims that apparently led to this point...and focus more on the quality and effects of outreach efforts.
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Of course, this also assumes that the teams actually READ this and take it into account. Not that they have much incentive to do so since ignorance actually benefits them. (but I'm a cynic) |
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EDIT: While that is a harsh way to generalize it, there may be a nugget of truth there. I'll try to word the way I view the problem properly without sounding like a total jerk or a hopelessly ignorant fool but there's a good chance I will continue to fail. Another cynical way I approach this move is that this is the minimum level of transparency of criteria HQ wanted to allow. Maybe FIRST thinks that a pursuit of their own doing concerning enforcing accurate representation of facts and statistics for teams would evolve into a pursuit by teams of calling for accurate representation of facts and statistics that FIRST does or does not publish. |
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Best thing since sliced bread. Hope team's honor the requirement.
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Awesome changes! Our team discussed a lot about this last season/this off-season and we are happy to see these changes to the definitions.
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Great work FIRST. |
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Big fan, great idea, happy this is a thing. Props to all that made it happen.
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I love the motivation behind this change, and I think the definitions are reasonable and will help judges figure out which teams are most deserving of the Chairman's Award. That being said, I agree with Andrew's point above that a team's ignorance regarding these definitions could end up giving them an advantage, and while I'm not sure what could be done about that, it's unfortunate.
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This is a big improvement versus the status quo where many teams in the past have used such terms loosely to their advantage. |
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This is a good thing and long overdue, but I still see two potential issues that this document seems to allude to:
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TO #2: That is not it at all. What they are trying to do is standardize what it means to "start" ,"mentor" ,"assist" , teams. It is in no way stating how this is going to be weighted. I do have a questions about how this is going to be enforced, if it was ever intended to be. Why have the second part of the definitions here at all unless there needs to be some sort of supporting documentation required or each mentored team listed? It makes no sense otherwise. |
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This is a great addition to the Chairman's Award rules and criteria... an excellent tool to encourage and provide consistency. I'm very happy to see this put in place. We often have discussions about what a particular term really means and what it might imply to the judges... now we have it defined for us. This is definitely a positive change. Thank you HOF teams for your work on this. :D
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I do know of one instance where a Team X claimed to have mentored Team Y. Some set of judges asked Team Y about this, and Team Y did not agree. Team X was removed from contention for Chairman's.
It may not happen all the time, but it does happen. |
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"^ My interpretation has long been that the Chairman's Award does emphasize outreach within the FIRST community. This has also been reinforced with the updated short answer questions in the last couple of years that specifically asked about interactions with and encouragement of other JFLL, FLL, FTC, FRC teams. "
I can think of at least 2 recent CCA teams that focused a lot of time and energy on Vex based outreach...I hope that openness to other programs promoting STEM growth is still in effect. If FIRST CA judges are going to weigh alternative program use as outreach less than FLL, FTC, etc. then I would hope they clarify that asap. |
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There are a lot of schools and students who don't have every opportunity to be on a robotics teams, any type of competitive STEM team. It's my belief that we should all be trying to support the grow of all STEM education. I love FRC but there are tones of schools where an FRC team just doesn't make sense, maybe FTC does, or VEX, BEST, Botball, Trinity Firefighting, OCCRA, MATE, or any of the other dozens of programs that want to inspire students to learn more about STEM. I'd be interested to know how the HOF teams felt about this since the way the blog reads these definitions were published by them. |
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Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the discounting of other STEM initiatives varies heavily from judge crew to judge crew. I know presenters from various teams have definitely come away with the impression that FIRST-related activities were weighted more heavily, based on judge questions. However, results seem to be a mix.
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It's also been no secret that the Chairman's award focuses on FIRST related outreach, especially with the changes to the online submission short answers questions starting in 2014. I doubt you're going to ever hear FIRST say "We don't value non-FIRST outreach" In stead, they've made it clear they have emphasis on FIRST-related outreach. |
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It may help to keep checking Frank's Blog to see direct responses from him regarding some of the questions in this thread...
Receiving team documentation Permalink Submitted by Frank Merrick on Tue, 10/13/2015 - 10:24. "Hi Liron. We had talked about requiring some documentation briefly, but did not want to turn this into a legalistic exercise. Our working assumption is that most teams, in keeping with the ethos of Gracious Professionalism, will not mislead about their support for other teams, once presented with reasonable definitions they are told they must adhere to. With the number of teams applying for Chairman's Award, some percentage certainly will still intentionally mislead, but we don't want to punish those who don't by requiring additional paperwork." |
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Related to the definitions in the new document,
I'm glad FIRST is providing these definitions. It will be helpful for teams in several ways. Now teams have clearly defined terms they can use when writing Chairman's Essays. Also, teams will have a standardized set of terms/measures with which they can compare themselves to other teams to know if they're really doing what they should be in terms of helping other teams. Lastly, it may help motivate some teams to move from an assist role to a mentor role or a mentor role to a start role. In the 2nd portion, it also clarifies a somewhat muddy distinction between "running" an event and just helping. |
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I actually did laugh out loud when I saw this.
"Team A creates and publishes a scouting database compiling statistical data from competitions, and the database is downloaded and used by other Teams" There are only a couple of teams that publish scouting databases. There are a few more if you include scouting apps. I know my previous team did mention the scouting database as part of the Community Service Slide. I also know they never claimed the other teams that downloaded the file as being "mentored" or "assisted" in their chairman's presentation. So it is either (a) some team did claim that or (b) somebody thinks that a team like ours had claimed that but not sure so adding this clarification will make sure it does not happen. Either way it is sad we have to come to that. |
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This isn't FIRST "cracking down" on what criteria need to be met to win a Chairman's Award. The CA has always been rather up to interpretation (even more so in the recent years) and this is simply a way to find some sort of common ground for CA submissions. |
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A massive thank you to all the HoF teams who helped with these definitions. I'm sure there was a lot of debate over what it means to "start" vs. "mentor" vs. "assist" a team. What would seem tedious to some will be a huge assistance to the entire FRC community going forward - so thank you heaps!
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This is a good move, and I like the concise definitions. Hopefully this will smooth out the churn in direction business teams take and reduce the gamification this season w.r.t. what and how to write & present for CA. Teams do so much but only get X number of words and Y number of minutes to show the impacts. There are so many good programs, I'd much rather hear about unique community approaches (e.g. Kell) in the CA winner announcements.
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I think this was an incredibly smart move. As we see more and more very deserving teams submitting for the CA, it’s important to standardize terminology. FIRST is a technical program, and that doesn’t apply to just the robots. When submitting for the CA, students are learning how to write in a persuasive AND technically accurate way, in the same vein that many professionals use in their day to day lives. It’s important to teach them how to follow technical guidelines and provide ethical and truthful statements.
In the same way that as an engineering consultant I have to provide accurate summaries of my firm’s capabilities in a project bid document, FIRST students need to write about their accomplishments in a professional and truthful manner. This is another side to the professional world that doesn’t always get emphasized but it’s a huge teaching opportunity for our community. It standardizes the terminology and places everybody on an even playing field. This move leaves little to the imagination and eliminates differences of interpretation that teams may or may not use to exaggerate or spin their claims. It’s never an easy task to get students to document, document, document! They don’t like it when you comb through their numbers and claims with a fine tooth comb to ensure their accuracy. It’s a frustrating process, but I’m glad to know that FIRST is on the same page when it comes to honesty in submissions. |
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I think my feelings are well known on this topic; inspiring students to get excited by STEM is the goal, it really doesn't matter what program they use to achieve this goal. I would hope the judges continue to award teams who are inspiring by promoting this vision via any avenue, as they did for 1114 in 2012. |
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Additional information from Frank's Blog in response to my questions...
"Submitted by Frank Merrick on Wed, 10/14/2015 - 15:10. Hi Joe. 1. The submission will not require the listing of specific teams supported. 2. Judges may or may not attempt to verify claims based on circumstances. If a team claims to have mentored Team 9999, and team 9999 happens to be attending the same event, the judges may ask Team 9999 to confirm the relationship. 3. The examples given are just examples, and are not intended to change the emphasis on the award. If you look in the manual for specifics on award submission, though, you will see emphasis is given to supporting FIRST teams. It has been this way for some time. |
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That being said, the lack of enforcement is just status quo for many things. Remember, nobody's able to say--for sure--that you actually did lock the robot up in its bag when the form says you did! (Unless, of course, you are so foolish as to bag the robot in the parking lot of your event. In that case, ye be right out of luck.) |
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If a team, shall we say, does some embroidery with the truth (such as by using the wrong term, deliberately or not), this gives FRC judges a clearer picture of what they're saying should they choose to verify the team's story. For example, if a team says "we mentored team such-and-such", all a judge has to ask is, "were you talking with this team throughout build season?" (or some similar question--maybe "describe your interactions with other teams", which could go for two or three awards) and the team being checked on doesn't need to know whether they were mentored--they can answer the question, and the judge can quickly make a determination as to whether or not the team actually did mentor the other team. What this does is it provides a technical definition that can be used both by the team claiming the help to another team and by the judges to ensure that they are on the same page. Just for grins... I believe this post would count as Assisting. (I'm not entirely sure that y'all would actually agree with that statement, but per the definition's examples it should count. Not that I'd be claiming it--way too loose for my taste, not definite enough.) |
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This is what is happening. Teams can still say the following: we have started, 2 FRC teams and mentored 12 others. We have started 14 FLL teams and mentored 35. We have started 8 FTC teams and mentored 10. what is going to stop a team from doing this again? nothing. |
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"Submitted by Frank Merrick on Tue, 10/13/2015 - 10:24. Hi Liron. We had talked about requiring some documentation briefly, but did not want to turn this into a legalistic exercise. Our working assumption is that most teams, in keeping with the ethos of Gracious Professionalism, will not mislead about their support for other teams, once presented with reasonable definitions they are told they must adhere to. With the number of teams applying for Chairman's Award, some percentage certainly will still intentionally mislead, but we don't want to punish those who don't by requiring additional paperwork. (Boldened by me). BTW, our Chairman's crew has had a 5" thick binder full of 'empirical evidence' for a few years now and the judges rarely examine it...maybe we should just reduce it to a 3x5" card? ;) |
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Couple this with the fact that winning Chairman's essays now need to be published, it would take a lot of gumption for a team to lie knowing that other teams may call them out based on these new definitions. Is this a perfect solution? Obviously not. At the core of FRC is an honour system. Teams who blatantly ignore this honour system are always going to gain an advantage. I've seen teams make the elimination rounds at regionals with a robot they illegally worked on by taking it out of the bag and I've seen teams win Chairman's by claiming to start and mentor teams that they barely had any association with. However, these definitions will definitely collapse a lot of the grey areas of terminology that many teams have been exploiting (either intentionally or accidentally) over the years. Perfect? Nope, but a definite improvement. |
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Another point is that it is possible to have events where two teams are involved in running it while one also happens to be a host. CAGE match seems to be an example; While 1529 is the host, both 829 and 1529 appear to put forth about 50/50 of the effort (volunteers, logistics, etc.). Here's the question (hypothetically/rhetorically): If "majority" effort is required, then would neither team get to claim "running" the event? Or since 50% rounds up, would both teams get to claim such? The latter makes more sense to me (as the intent of the definition is to prevent teams from grossly overstating contributions) but I could see this issue coming up given that a lot of such partnering teams often compete in-season together; as the fact that two teams are (in presumably good faith and reason) claiming to have "run" the event, which in the former interpretation would cause issues for the arguments put forward by the teams. Defining stuff like this isn't easy, is it... |
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As another example: For IRI, 1024 would claim "hosting"; the other three teams involved would be claiming either "running" or "assisting"--probably which one would be dependent on involvement. If it's 50-50, or so, and you really want to be safe, you can always claim "assisting" with the hosting of the event. |
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Even without competing for such an award, it has now increased to 5 full size binders. We also have a PDF version where we scan each page prior to putting it together now. I think the binders in general provide "evidence" as you mentioned, where judges can reference it if necessary. During our interviews, we brought in team binders, but the judges only perused them, primarily listening to presentations and looking at our standup/pull-up poster displays. They did however hold onto the binders back then, and I'm sure they reviewed it even further, so we've been told. |
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I hope teams are doing this actively. In our exuberance at winning the Bayou Chairman's last year, we left our binder somewhere and never found it. Fortunately most of our documentation was saved - but we still lost some of our favorite parts (thank you notes and such) -D |
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Honestly I really like these definitions, they're reasonable and clear and keep teams who've only gone over to see an FLL team once to say that they've "mentored" that team. Obviously, it's kind of an honor code but I would say it's a huge step in the right direction.
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I think whatever format you choose to showcase that support can be helpful, so long as the judges take the time to check it out. MKI students have done it in binder-format as Glenn & Karthik are describing, but also digitally on a giveaway flashdrive alongside our printed material handouts. (Important note: Not on the same flashdrive as the video! Ours was separate, with a little tied-on note about what the drive contained & a thank-you for their consideration!) |
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I've split the discussion on the newly discovered Chairman's Deadline to the following thread:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=138730 |
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