Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Think back to 2015 game hint. All the game hint did was reveal to a smart thinker the word "recycle". All that did was help give us the game title but even that wasn't fully confirmed. This year, they've already released so much about the game in comparison. Nobody last year could have been able to tell that we could be stacking totes and cans all season. But this year, we already know the name and can tell the game should be involving defense and the capturing if some item. Plus more speculations. Nothing is obvious in this video but this year's hint isn't so obscure as years past. And the game hint for 2015 made 100% sense when the game was released. I'm sure the hint with make a lot of sense once we know the game.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I have a sneaking suspicion that our drivetrains will need to have a strong hold on the ground this year.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Hey, so I just wanted to point out something that hasn't been mentioned up till now. There have been video games titled "Stronghold" such as:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong...001_video_game)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong...993_video_game)

I have played neither of these and thus know very little about them. I just want to throw these out there so that we don't get too caught up with the whole CTF idea.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Me neither. On the surface it has students building robots to face a challenge. But the animation style looked like it targeted a younger than high school age group.

So, would it grab your attention to check out the website? I'll show it to a few people not associated with FIRST.

For those of us inside the tent, there are a gillion details we can chase until Jan 9th.

David

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I can't abide by LARPing at a robotics competition.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Jeez. That's a throw back! I kinda want to rewatch that now...

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I think last year's hint did lead to at some very good predictions prior to the kickoff: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...&postcount=411

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Anyone think that the centre of the blueprint looks like a chain while the outer components look like heads (being looked at from the side and back)?

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Change is Coming...

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

In many recent years, scoring happened in separate goals for each alliance, usually on opposite ends of the field (baskets in 2012, goals in 2014, etc.) I think we may see a combined goal, most likely in the center of the field (similar to Tower Power). Maybe the goal would represent a castle or other stronghold-themed element. This kind of shared scoring goal, with separate game pieces for each alliance, means teams not only have to be good at scoring, but fast too since there would be a limited number of game pieces able to be scored.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

What about a robot activated drawbridge? Two robots on the alliance needed to make it so the third member could pass. Or two robots on the opposing alliances needed to open bridge/ field barrier- part of the co-op. Also, what if raising a yellow flag means points for both alliances instead of just one? Anther thing-notice the swirls on one side of the field and the flaps where the swirls should be on the other side- what if robots need to do something at the swirls like sit there to open up the flaps and enable scoring?

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

A few observations after watching 10 times:

1. The beginning of the video where all the students are around the tents appears to resemble the pits and they later go to the field.
2. At 20 seconds there are 6 students in blue and 1 mentor in red looking at the robot in the pits. At 41 seconds there are 6 students and no mentor driving the robot. Will the GDC change the rules to disallow mentors to be robo-coaches?
3. At 41 seconds it is clear this is the drive team. 2 students have xbox controllers and are driving the robot. 1 student is in between the drivers instructing them. 1 student is standing off to the side with a flag, human player with game piece? Then there are 2 students in the back with their hands in the air as fists, what are they doing? Are they on the drive team?
4. The robot has 8 wheel tank drive. That was done on purpose, it would be easier to animate a 4 wheel or 6 wheel tank drive so there must be some driving obstacle.
5. In "the pits" in the beginning you can see the tower. There will likely be a large field element you can see from the pits.
6. Also in "the pits" in the beginning of the video, some tents (individual teams pits) have blue, red, or yellow flags, some have no flags. Why would we need to put flags in our pits? Could it be to symbolize what position in the game we are playing,ranking in qualification matches, something else?
7. The new improved plowie is made out of stones from the castle. Will a robot itself be the Stronghold?
8. At 23 seconds, why are 2 students putting a flag over the robot and at 25 seconds why is a student taking a brush to the robot? These 2 events are completely unrelated to the story-line.
9. At 42 seconds the robot's arms are in a karate fighting position. I assume this means the robot will have a manipulator come out of the bumper perimeter to interact with game pieces.
10.The video has a lot of flags in it. Will they be the game piece?
11. I have not figured out the blueprints yet.

These are just some ideas from the first hour of thinking about it. Don't take them too seriously.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Last time I can remember a center field goal was 2007's Rack 'n' Roll. Would be interesting to see it again.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Blueprints look too much like a field diagram to not be one...

And the game seems to be capture the flag - opening shot being a flag, then the castle with the flag. Halfway though, the flag is gone from the castle and there is darkness and lightning -> evil/bad. Their flag got stolen. I'd be shocked if stealing flags is not part of this game.

Our team is looking forward to the branding opportunities with this game :P

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

It's probably just me, but 'the teaser is coming' and a medieval setting have me thinking Game of Thrones, but on another note, I'm leaning towards Capture the Flag and King of the Hill.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Beat me to it.

This is an interesting idea also. It seems like more teams have been having student drive coaches recently.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Launching?

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Halo 5 has a game mode called Strongholds:
https://youtu.be/lbM5B7yesuI

Using Halo's definition of what a stronghold is would lead you to believe that there is a location to be "captured"

If the blueprint really is representative of the game field then maybe the large central structure will fly the flag of the team that has "captured" it by dumping/shooting game pieces into it or something.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

In the "Capture the Flag" idea as the video seems to be hinting too, the original rules to Capture the Flag is to capture your opponent's flag. If caught in an opponents territory players are brought to jail and can only be saved by a teammate who can free them.

Do you think if the game does have relationships to Capture the flag that their could be a sort of jail type thing? where someone must rescue you, Just a theory, but would make for some serious teamwork.

Also in the game their are safe zones in your territory, Their could also be some kind of area like this in this game as well.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

That image though... I'm crying. It looks waay to much like a mobile game. And, like you pointed out, "Launching"? Is FRC, for their 25th year anniversary, doing a massive change? I mean, they talked about having a wider appeal beyond just the FRC FIRST community.

I'm probably overanalyzing this

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Completely agreed. If I didn't know what FIRST was and someone showed me that banner, the first thing I'd say is "Oh, that looks like a sweet game. Is it for iOS or Android?"

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Sorry if I am late to the game. BUT. Did anybody notice stormy weather? Water game!

Seriously though. Since the other Frank specifically said this is not a game hint, this most really be a game hint?

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Throwing "rocks" with catapults at each others "castles" that have openings of various points at different levels.

Flags that when pushed to a "zone" accrue points, endgame where flags remaining scored get doubled points, can't attempt to move opponents flags till last 20 seconds of match creating a do I attack or defend delema at end of match..

Auto points for moving flags to scoring positions and scoring rocks at start of match.

Bump like obstacles in middle with a bridge of some kind.



I was way off.. Knew it started with an S though!

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Oh, right. Standard practice for taking a stronghold in medieval times generally involved some combination of three or four methods.
1) Take a battering ram and "knock on the door". (Easily foiled by a moat with drawbridge.)
2) Dig in--dig under or through the wall. Sometimes accompanied by collapsing the wall to make a breach.
3) And if you didn't have manpower to waste, you'd throw things* using whatever catapults you could come up with.
4) Storm the castle. If you need an idea of that... just watch the orcs in Lord of the Rings a few times. (ladders, grappling hooks, climbing on each others' heads...) Usually used after one of the first three. (I'm ignoring #5, Siege, because that takes a tad too long.)

So... I could see some BLT robots "knocking on the door"; I could NOT see someone trying to dig (that's just not going to fly in most arenas); I could definitely see some flying balls of one size or another (been a while since the dodgeballs were used, over 10 years as I recall--after being quite a common game piece!).

*Rocks, rocks soaked in oil and set on fire, and just about anything else that could cause your opponent harm.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Definitely not GP to use your opponent's heads as ammo? Maybe a clock?

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

My prediction: Tetras are the game pieces. You need to make stacks of tetras on your side of the field(stronghold). At the same time, opposing teams can invade your stronghold to descore with their own tetras. Big 2003 esque ramp in middle for end game and traversing the field. Don't quite know what end game could be. Raising flag or king of the hill?

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

You forgot about the good old seige.
Nothing demoralizes an army quite like starving them out.

Fortress Fury is available for iOS and Android devices. It is basically PvP Crush the Castle, or for the newer crowd, PvP Angry Birds

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Nope, it's in there. #5. I put it in #4 because it's just not practical for an FRC game. Unless the game lasts the whole season, and somebody manages to cram all the teams in places with good weather into their shops for 6 weeks with no resupply runs...

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Our team is used to going without food and water. We never seem to restock anything in our snack cabinet, but you can always find 1-2 year old Chex Mix, marshmallows, and popcorn. Our magical stale food cabinet would let us ride it out.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I was really hoping that they would have finished last year's theme strong. Recycle Rush Again would have been almost too perfect for the first ever multi-year game.

I guess STRONGHOLD will have to do.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

What's the prediction for how many posts this thread gets up to before kickoff? I'm thinking well over 1000.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

By the way...


I rather suspect that "Stronghold" isn't necessarily the name of the game (or rather, won't be later). It could be--has a rather catchy ring--but in some circles, stuff that is being worked on gets a "working title" that may or may not end up being the actual title of the thing being worked on. And Disney Imagineers work in or next to one of those industries as their day job.



And another thought.

I rather suspect that half of the reason (or more) for releasing the game hints and now the teaser is to generate more ideas for the next game under development. The other half is so the GDC can have a good (evil?) laugh at how close and yet how far any guesses are.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I painted over all the lines on the blueprint to make it easier to see any important stuff.
Attachment 19353

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

One more thing to note, the helmets in the video I think will be representative of the Holo Lens. Microsoft teased teams at championships last year and that may be where the disney imagination part comes into this.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I'm surprised the dialog hasn't gotten more attention.

"Build your champion" "rally your kingdom" "Face the challenge ahead together".

Regardless of what the challenge actually is, this seems to hint at some kind of major alliance integration. Seeing only one robot featured in the animation made me initially think that there might even be modular robots where alliances put together a machine based on a common modularization scheme.

"Face the challenge together" seems to suggest a continuation of the "no direct competition" trend of last year which was heavily predicated by the chaos of Aerial Assist's very competition heavy game (it was basically football) mixed with FRC's very defense-averse penalty system.

I have long thought that FIRST is going to move FRC into the same format as FTC, FLL, and JR. FLL.....when you don't compete with people on the field. "Broader appeal"?

I mean, direct competition is not very politically correct anymore.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

It's an even year, so we get a "ball" game. Probably kinda typical shoot to score. Possibly knocking into something (stone wall, if you believe the theme) rather than simply going through a hole? If I run with that too far I start imagining angry birds...
The endgame may involve transporting a minibot-like flag to a tower and raising it. FIRST really likes hints about endgames because they don't reveal much actual gameplay.

I'm unconvinced that the circles in the middle of the "field" drawing are actually solid structures. I certainly hope FIRST GDC didn't make the no-interaction mistake twice in a row....
I'm also unconvinced it's actually the field. It's more likely that this is a drawing of a game element, remember when the hint was a CAD model of one of the gates at the side of the field you walk through to place your bot? Super revealing...

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

"No interaction" wasn't a mistake.....I think that's a permanent change.

Their constant push towards Fairness (tm) in penalizing defensive play came to a head in Aerial Assist and caused quite a stir in the FRC community...and FIRST promised to address the issue.

Did they take a chill pill on penalties? Noooo....:D

Competitive interaction was nixed. I may be wrong, but I don't think its coming back. Synthetic fairness is better than genuine competition.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Why would we need bumpers next year if no interaction was permanent?

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I'm sure there will be interaction...the question is competitive interaction. I.e. alliance robots playing defensively as well as offensively against each other.

I said I could be wrong, but given the format of all other FIRST leagues and the consertnation over FIRST's aggressive defensive penalty trend, I can see them designing competitive interaction out of FRC as a long term trend.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Wouldn't it be great if FIRST Stronghold actually is a mobile game that launches on January 9? The actual game would then be something different.

@Everyone saying that no defense is staying: Frank told me at the 2015 RI District that a lack of defense is not a trend in future games.

~Daler

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Not a big fan of game hints to be honest but I'm curious to see how long it takes this thread to reach a thousand posts.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

It will loose steam in a few days...I think...maybe.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

It's clash of clans.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Micro transactions confirmed.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Teams will be allowed to spend money for more weeks of build season and/or for FIRST to send builders to their workshops.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Pay to win game confirmed.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

What's new about that? There's a macro transaction up front :rolleyes:

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Disney is all about princesses.
Shown at 37 seconds is a Nintendo Power Glove.
The Nintendo princess is Peach.
Peach must be rescued from the tower.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

There's blood in the water and the Piranhas are biting. It's CD. This thread is gonna have legs all the way til January 9th.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

The Red Dragon is a slightly modified version of the Drexel University Dragon.


The Yellow Dragon is a version that they used a number of years ago in an ad campaign.

The interlooped drawing at the center is a close approximation on how Main, Randal and the Bossone Research Enterprise Center are connected together. (Robotics and Biotech)

Little known fact is that between those buildings, in what would be the center of the map is the best Philly Lunch trucks. If you stand in the center it's like being deep inside a small canyon.

Yes, the 2016 game is Lunch Truck Wars! Your robot is a lunch truck, you need to navigate the streets of Philadelphia. The lines on the blueprint outside area is the streets, those two stick figures with poles are actually construction workers with stop signs directing and redirecting traffic. If you look at the blue print there are a number of circles, I think those represent pot holes in the street.

Once you maneuver into the parking area, you'll need to feed the students. I'm guessing that they will reuse the Frisbee supply from a few years ago to be "plates of food" Red for Pizza, Yellow for Cheese steaks (wit!), White for Chinese food (on rice) and Blue is Gluten Free (bonus meals).

Most students fed wins. Maybe the endgame is getting back to your distribution point at night.

Here is the kicker, you want to feed as many as possible, so you need to distribute the food before the match (preloads). So scouting becomes very important on how many frisbee / food can a robot take and actually deliver.

I love it, best FIRST game ever!

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

THIS should be a spotlight post!!!

Re: Thoughts on the teaser?
 

If it's capture the flag then imagine more than three teams to an alliance??

Re: Thoughts on the teaser?
 

I thought that it was interesting that on the official banner they have on the usfirst website, it also has green & yellow. While it's unlikely, I think it would be cool if there was 4 alliances somehow.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Here's what I thought:

Last year I've read about some alliances leaving one of the alliance members "disabled" so that the other two could score higher by themselves, does "Together" mean that the all the three teams have to do something together to score?

I'm curious about the robot's eyes lighting up in the video, does that mean the field will be dark (or have some huge box inside the field) and the robots need the light to see the field?

"Rally your kingdom" might be related with the teams' relationship (support and stuff) with their community

and I feel weird about the tilted logo too...

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Did anybody notice that Dozer no longer has a "dozer" and now has hands with fingers?

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Because thats his 1/2 brother Gripper. :rolleyes:

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

And who says that they will continue the trend?
If they're bringing back bumpers, expect a game where there will be some aggressive game play either robot on robot or field on robot. If there was actually a field that could do damage to robots, that may be a concern, and I wouldn't expect FIRST to do something like that.
Secondly, many are suggesting a flag as a game piece. The possible issue with this is the durability of a flag. If the game does end up being capture the flag, I expect it to be a game piece that is not the shape of a flag, but symbolizes a flag (something more durable).

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I am feeling trebuchets and catapults

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Honestly, the middle part of the alleged game field reminds me of a moat and drawbridge. I think that would be a cool aspect, sort of like a king-of-the-hill-ish feature.

Plus, moat means water game confirmed ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Re: Thoughts on the teaser?
 

Also in that picture, the Red tent has a Blue flag and the Green tent has a Yellow Flag (in the bottom left corner)

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Re: Thoughts on the teaser?
 

That would be a really interesting dynamic to a game... It'd be extremely intruiging to see how the alliances interacted.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Another thing I'm curious about is how the teaser image says "Build your champion."

It's probably referring to build season, but what if it isn't? Maybe modifications are required on the fly? Plus, it says champion as a singular word, rather than champions. I'd assume this is just referring to singular teams. "Rally your kingdom" probably refers to alliances.

This is probably mumbo jumbo, but maybe it's worth noting?...

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Has anyone notice the shadows on the blueprints? Is it just me or do they look symmetrical?

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

This is great. I think the flag over a robot indicates that it died.
The 4 flag colors might mean that there will be 4 alliances. Having 2 robots per alliance for a total of 8 robots on the field at once would allow more teams to compete at once.

Looking at the blueprints, I think there will be gates that will have to be opened.
Will there be gate keepers, like in the Holy Grail?

Dave

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Even on a wide open field like 2014 8 robots would be too much. Add in obstacles and now there is no room to move. Just look at how little room there was in 2015.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

The dragons look sort of Chinese style to me.

I think there is a sword in the top of the tower. Maybe whoever can retrieve it is king?

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Someone might have already said this, but one of the tings that I noticed was once the thunderstorm hit, it got dark and the robots lights turned on...
Playing in the dark? Might be fun...

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

SO true - I'm not sure that's the introduction to mainstream culture we want for ourselves...

For an organization that wants to brand itself as the "Sport for the Mind" and reach 'outside the tent', I don't think this 'theme' is going to resonate outside of the nerd-crowd as well as they think it is.

I think it's heaps better than Recycle Rush, and I'm sure Disney's help will make it crowd-friendly - but here's how I see it:

In 2010 or 2012, for example, you're practicing in the school, kicking soccerballs or shooting three-pointers from the key, and one of the students on your school's best Sportsball team walks by. Guess what? You've got common ground now. This is something they already 'get', and maybe they'll come to a competition to see it. Once they're there, they're hooked and want to do more FIRST. You've converted someone who didn't see the value in the robotics team, to a STEM enthusiast. Isn't that the whole point of why we do this?

Engagement from even an already-enthusiastic audience at an FRC demonstration was like pulling teeth this year, at least for us. In the middle of our summer day camp expo, a first-grader asked me: "Why would you want to make a robot that just stacks boxes? What about the cool frisbee one?" (We bring our 2013 robot to play outside with the campers, and demo FLL/FTC/FRC inside.)

I hope Stronghold will be a little more engaging, if only because all the blog posts, teasers, etc. made so far have led us to believe there's some robot interaction.

But as far as bringing people from 'outside the tent' in to FIRST? I'd pick an actual sport any day.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Ok Ill take the bait and throw my 2 cents into this-

-Yes each alliance has a sword on their end of the field-
-High Points awarded for taking that sword from your opponents and placing it in a middle castle on the field before the other alliance-
- On each side of the castle are 2 arches that teams can pass thru to the opposing alliances side- one red one blue
- In the middle part of the castle is a gate or door that is much harder to pass thru but either team can go thru or use to place the sword
- Lower points are given for taking flags from your side of the field and planting them on our opponents side- for example 1 point for low placement- and 5 points for placing them in a more difficult position
-Human players can pass flags to robots from the side of the field to their alliance partners
-From the diagram it almost looks like human players on the side of the field could also be used to play some kind of defense/block progress this year- but safety of human defensive interaction with robots leads me to think now

Cant wait to be proven wrong

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Capture the flag with blue, red, and yellow flags. Blue tries to get all of their flags to their side, red tries to get theirs. Each team has to steal from the other and play keep away. The yellow flags are in the middle for reverse coopertition. The goal is to have as many flags as possible in your scoring zone by the end of the time. Im also thinking obstructions to the drivers view could be part of it.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

From the dramatic shot of the tower, it looks almost like a king-of-the-hill arrangement.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

What if every alliance has a different goal to achieve making everyone have to make choices on what mechanisms to focus on :eek:

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

of course Hallry starts this thread...

2016 Game Hint Discussion?
 

The teaser for the 2016 FRC Game:
usfirst.org/frc2016

This seems like pretty much the most straightforward game hint ever. Usually all the hint gets us is a name, and this tells us the name already! Plus, to kick off some speculation, notice the fact that the "champion" has bumpers. Also, the big tower featured seems like a likely field element to me.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I totally agree. The connection to real sports in the past was amazing.

The first thing that came to mind when I saw this was LARPing. (Madison mentioned it as well). I can't see kids from sportsball getting excited about something that looks like a LARPing advertisement (albeit now with more robots). As someone who participated in High school sports I can say if this was what was supposed to get me interested in Robots I would probably have just stuck with cheerleading.

Hopefully this turns out well. Disney is a wonderful company who hopefully has helped create a great experience for the students. I'd love to see more kids want to be involved in FIRST.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

tl;dr
Lunacy on carpet? Defend the trailers.

Re: 2016 Game Hint Discussion?
 

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hreadid=138575

You got sniped.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

That settles it, I'm wearing my full renfest garb this year!

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Shall we keep in mind that a 'flag' (an object) can be represented by a variety of other game pieces? Even a ball can represent a 'flag'.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Replace the green and pink things on the 2009 trailer with a flag and you might be on to something. Maybe the trailer is also styled like a castle tower.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Ok, So I don't usually post on these types of threads, (I don't think I have posted in general in over 2 years anyway) but I was talking with a fellow FIRST Alumni about the new game and something kinda struck me...

A few considerations first:

• The blueprint from the teaser is representative of the playing field.
• The suggestions of those previous that the driver stations are along the sides of the field instead of the ends.
• Some large central scoring platform as indicated in the blueprint.
• In the past few years it appears FIRST is trying to move teams into specializing more and limiting the ability for the "One Robot to Rule them All" teams.

So, you now have a field which is designed to limit the view of different positions of the driver station, where more defensive robots are placed on the side closes to the opponent alliance for a better view. While the more scoring oriented teams are in the middle and far positions. Trouble is this could cause chaos with the scheduling of the qualification rounds. (No defensive robots for the position, or all defensive robots, etc)

Now, it occurred to me that what if you implemented a class system for robots. You would have to pick your class at the start of the build season and the rules would be so different that it would be difficult to switch mid-season. You would also register at the event as that particular robot class and the scheduling system would be designed to accommodate one robot of each class per alliance. The class system would also be designed with tiered levels of robot complexity and/or game complexity, so only a particular class can achieve a specific game objective. If there are more robots in a particular class they get less matches so their average score counts much more that a lower populated class which gets a lot more matches. It also give the teams who pick the "easier" class, traditionally the smaller or less experienced teams a fairly good chance to play with the more advanced, powerhouse type teams who pick the top tier class.

Now the obligatory wildly unlikely supporting data from the teaser....

Rally your Kingdom - In recent Fantasy culture when Kingdoms when to "war" they would have different classes of combat: Calvary Knights, Archers, Footmen
Build Your Champion - In most RPG games where you pick your character (Champion) you are expected to select some specialization class.
Different colors of flags on the tents - Could indicate different classes of "soldier" as stated above

So there you have it. It was a fun little though experiment... Thinking completely outside the preconceptions of games gone past. Keeps the mind limber I suppose and in actual fact the more I think about it, the more it sounds awesome.

Anyway, enough from me spoiling the worthwhile conversation here. Have fun and I will see you all around game time! :cool:

P.S For all you scouting fanatics - Easier Scouting as you only have to look at the classes outside yourself and easier pick lists when you are confined to a specific set of robots for a particular role.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Hmmm.....

A Maize and Blue Griffin versus a scarlet and gray dragon? :yikes:

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

This. I really like the idea of different rules for different classes of robots, and it is actually reasonably plausible to implement.

Re: 2016 Game Hint Discussion?
 

I found the order of the video interesting. The champion (with blue banner), the Stronghold tower, then the red banner.
Could that imply alliances will build the stronghold in auto/early play and end game be attack opposition position? time will tell.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I took a look at the blueprints: I removed the lines and highlighted the important parts.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Center goal (stronghold) color scored (raised flag easier for audience to understand who is winning) for which alliance has scored the most goals, and a way for the opposing alliance to remove opponents' goals (capture). Perhaps a brick castle?

Strong offense and defense aspects, which were sorely missed last year.



I would love to see this rule change.
As a mentor I STRONGLY believe it should ONLY be students in the driver stations. We are trying to develop leaders. Let them lead.:ahh:

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

bp = ball pit

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

As far as I'm concerned, 2010 and 2012 were the 2nd and 3rd most boring games in FRC since 2004 (2015 takes the cake, and I can't speak to earlier games).

What's most important is that the robot is exciting, not that the robot plays with soccerballs or foam basketballs.

We don't need a sport themed game. We don't even need a theme at all. We need an exciting game that's easy for spectators to understand and fun for teams to play.

We won't know if we have that until at least January 9, so don't be so quick to write this game off less than 24 hours after seeing a teaser.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

:deadhorse:

No one take the bait...

Pryland, there are some great threads you can search for on here that discuss this topic at length.

-Mike

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I think that the 2014 game which required much more interrobot interaction led to teams helping each other much more. I've posted on this observation numerous times on CD. I don't think we need a fixed alliance to lead to greater coopertion; rather a game structure that creates more interrelationships.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Can I play devil's advocate for a moment, and suggest that there's nothing wrong with FIRST being just as enthusiastic about drawing influence from things that nerds like as from things that the general public likes?

Yes, the ultimate goal is to engender greater public awareness, enthusiasm, and respect for science and technology. I do not think, however, that we necessarily need to compromise on things we like that non-nerdy people might not in order to do that. If we truly believe that only way to make science appeal to the general public is to make it look like pro sports, then perhaps we ought to step back and reinterpret that as there being a lot more that we have to change.

For reference, I don't LARP. But I think that it is probably insensitive to people who do, and who enjoy it, to tell them that it is a mistake for FIRST to use imagery that appeals to their hobbies because their hobbies are too nerdy and would give people the "wrong impression" about the competition. If this is the cost of changing the public's attitude towards science and technology, then what attitudes are we really changing? I don't see the end result of a public who are fine with STEM - but only so long as it's packaged to look like pop culture - as a particularly impressive mark of progress.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Can you highlight the game field boundaries? Those are the lines I'll bet are the actual field set up.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I know many have pointed out the possibility of a "capture the flag" type game, but what if you take that a step farther and (using the two holes drilled on Dozer in the video) put a "target" on there. Now, the objective is to capture the flag (and defend your own flag from being captured) while getting hit as few times as possible. Maybe the "ammunition" are tennis balls. Maybe the game ends when you have successfully captured the flag and raised it up on your own "tower" or when time expires -- whichever comes first.

Alternatively, maybe we have another end game where you must raise the opposing flag up fastest (think 2011 but with flags, not minibots).

FIRST spent a ton of money on the totes this year, so I could potentially see them using the totes to build the "towers" on the field. Still not sure what purpose they serve exactly (I don't exactly see another 2003-style "knock it down to score points!" game.

In other news, how might one pick up a 1"dia PVC pipe (flag pole) off the ground? A fast, accurate mechanism that does that would be potentially tricky to build robustly enough to survive being hit by other robots. during gameplay.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I think playground games like capture the flag (seemingly the consensus for this game), dodgeball, four square, tetherball could be good alternatives that also can capture the public's attention. We don't need to stick to the "commercial" sports.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Excellent point, you're totally right. (Though I'm certainly not 'writing off the game' - just expressing that I'm not a fan of the theme.) I only meant to speak to the idea that there's different ways to find common ground for a new spectator - and that FIRST's idea of branding as 'sport for the mind' doesn't necessarily combine with this super well.

True! IMO if it's something recognizable and spectator-friendly it's good - no matter what the theme. But that's the stuff we have to wait until January for. :)

I'm excited, as always, for something new - and I know sharing the trailer around the office has gotten a bunch of employees hyped for the season too!

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

After watching the video multiple times,
1. People are reading too much into the tents with the colored flags, imagine the tents are pits, no two are the same and all have different colors.
2. The map looks mirrored (somewhat), with a obstacle on each half (placement about like the scoring platform of recycle rush) and a major obstacle in the center, which resembles a "figure 8".

My best guess of something fun is, of course "Capture the Flag", however with a "twist". To get to the opposite side of the field, or return, you have to drive the "Figure 8" (enter in the middle, do a full 8 and exit the middle.
Imagine the collisions! Or better yet. after running half of the 8 you have to pass the flag off to an alliance partner to complete the 8 and return to your half for scoring. :ahh: :ahh:

We all know there are many things that can happen from the multiple possible hints given in the video. :confused:
Who knows, maybe the GDC is reading this and many other forums for hints on how to alter their plans for the game. There's still plenty of time to change the game and cut the release video. Be careful what you guess it might come true. :deadhorse:

Have Fun and Good Luck

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

No, the GDC decided that they needed to surpass the 2015 game!!! ;)

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

I don't think they have time to substantially change the configuration of the game at this point. It's less than 2 months to ship date. They might tweak the rules, but that's it.

Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 

Pretty much this. All the information I've ever seen on the game-design process indicates that the time-scales involved in setting games for each year is years, not weeks.