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-   -   Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser! (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138575)

Ben Martin 15-10-2015 13:09
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libby K (Post 1500291)
SO true - I'm not sure that's the introduction to mainstream culture we want for ourselves...

For an organization that wants to brand itself as the "Sport for the Mind" and reach 'outside the tent', I don't think this 'theme' is going to resonate outside of the nerd-crowd as well as they think it is.

I think it's heaps better than Recycle Rush, and I'm sure Disney's help will make it crowd-friendly - but here's how I see it:

In 2010 or 2012, for example, you're practicing in the school, kicking soccerballs or shooting three-pointers from the key, and one of the students on your school's best Sportsball team walks by. Guess what? You've got common ground now. This is something they already 'get', and maybe they'll come to a competition to see it. Once they're there, they're hooked and want to do more FIRST. You've converted someone who didn't see the value in the robotics team, to a STEM enthusiast. Isn't that the whole point of why we do this?

Engagement from even an already-enthusiastic audience at an FRC demonstration was like pulling teeth this year, at least for us. In the middle of our summer day camp expo, a first-grader asked me: "Why would you want to make a robot that just stacks boxes? What about the cool frisbee one?" (We bring our 2013 robot to play outside with the campers, and demo FLL/FTC/FRC inside.)

I hope Stronghold will be a little more engaging, if only because all the blog posts, teasers, etc. made so far have led us to believe there's some robot interaction.

But as far as bringing people from 'outside the tent' in to FIRST? I'd pick an actual sport any day.
All we (really) have so far is the name, a theme and that there are bumpers. There is still plenty of flexibility in the theme for this to be a projectile game as well. Maybe footballs-- "Get the balls in while a robot trys to block them"--etc

GeeTwo 15-10-2015 13:10
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeeganP (Post 1500327)
In other news, how might one pick up a 1"dia PVC pipe (flag pole) off the ground? A fast, accurate mechanism that does that would be potentially tricky to build robustly enough to survive being hit by other robots. during gameplay.
The manipulators on Gripper (the robot in the video) seem better adapted to pick up and position a flagpole than a ball.

notmattlythgoe 15-10-2015 13:17
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo (Post 1500335)
The manipulators on Gripper (the robot in the video) seem better adapted to pick up and position a flagpole than a ball.
Because the robots in any of the game videos have always had efficient manipulators for the game pieces :rolleyes:

mwtidd 15-10-2015 13:28
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libby K (Post 1500329)
Excellent point, you're totally right. (Though I'm certainly not 'writing off the game' - just expressing that I'm not a fan of the theme.) I only meant to speak to the idea that there's different ways to find common ground for a new spectator - and that FIRST's idea of branding as 'sport for the mind' doesn't necessarily combine with this super well.

I'm excited, as always, for something new - and I know sharing the trailer around the office has gotten a bunch of employees hyped for the season too!
I'm personally surprised by the theme as well. I've been very impressed with how Disney has handled certain assets (specifically lucasfilm and marvel) to make STEM seem cool and interesting to the masses. The cartoonish middle ages theme seems a little oddly positioned, especially given some of the current imagineering projects (iron man, star wars, toy story, etc). I realize FIRST wouldn't have rights to those assets, but the execution could be similar. I'm quite curious about how much creative direction for the theme came from FIRST vs Disney.

That being said, given the discussions of possible game play, I am optimistically anticipating a game that could be quite entertaining for spectators.

notmattlythgoe 15-10-2015 13:30
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineskier (Post 1500339)
I'm personally surprised by the theme as well. I've been very impressed with how Disney has handled certain assets (specifically lucasfilm and marvel) to make STEM seem cool and interesting to the masses. The cartoonish middle ages theme seems a little oddly positioned, especially given some of the current imagineering projects (iron man, star wars, etc). I realize FIRST wouldn't have rights to those assets, but the execution could be similar. I'm quite curious about how much creative direction for the theme came from FIRST vs Disney.

That being said, given the discussions of possible game play, I am optimistically anticipating a game that could be quite entertaining for spectators.
Disney has handled those assets well by take a very hands off approach. The best decision they made after purchasing Marvel was to let them keep doing their thing.

Travis Hoffman 15-10-2015 13:31
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torvando (Post 1500215)
I painted over all the lines on the blueprint to make it easier to see any important stuff.
Attachment 19353
In the upper right, you can clearly make out the word "LOLL". The GDC is trolling all of you. :cool:

Electronica1 15-10-2015 13:34
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
What if the only thing relevant from the teaser is the game logo at the end? (notice the striped flag)

MoistRobot 15-10-2015 13:36
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Sticking with a capture the flag and defend/attack theme I'm thinking maybe a target that you fling game pieces at (bean bags?) that will raise your alliance flag (some sort of balance) while it's possible for the opposition to fling them at an opposing target that would lower your flag. You're then left with the choice of trying to raise your flag or lower the opposition's.

Gibso23 15-10-2015 14:34
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1500138)
Ya know, maybe they'll step away from the color-coded bumpers and go back to the flags of '06-'08 for alliance identification.
I was thinking the same thing until further looking at the video and there seem to be a hint that there will be bumpers in the game

notmattlythgoe 15-10-2015 14:37
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibso23 (Post 1500355)
I was thinking the same thing until further looking at the video and there seem to be a hint that there will be bumpers in the game
There was more than a hint in the FRC Blog previously.
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...y-Pool-Noodles

Hallry 15-10-2015 14:38
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibso23 (Post 1500355)
I was thinking the same thing until further looking at the video and there seem to be a hint that there will be bumpers in the game
From when bumpers started in 2006 through 2009, they could be any color of your choice (they could also say other things in addition to your team number). Other means (flags, posts on the Lunacy trailers) were used to identify alliance members. It wasn't until 2010 that bumpers became regulated as blue and red to signify alliances.

Caleb McCune 15-10-2015 14:45
Re: 2016 Game Hint Discussion?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Does anyone else think that the tower may be an objective in the game to come?

Edit: Also 2 flags were shown in the video, so a possibility of CTF?

Thoughts?

Jacob Bendicksen 15-10-2015 14:45
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcatt (Post 1500313)
Ok, So I don't usually post on these types of threads, (I don't think I have posted in general in over 2 years anyway) but I was talking with a fellow FIRST Alumni about the new game and something kinda struck me...

A few considerations first:
  • The blueprint from the teaser is representative of the playing field.
  • The suggestions of those previous that the driver stations are along the sides of the field instead of the ends.
  • Some large central scoring platform as indicated in the blueprint.
  • In the past few years it appears FIRST is trying to move teams into specializing more and limiting the ability for the "One Robot to Rule them All" teams.

So, you now have a field which is designed to limit the view of different positions of the driver station, where more defensive robots are placed on the side closes to the opponent alliance for a better view. While the more scoring oriented teams are in the middle and far positions. Trouble is this could cause chaos with the scheduling of the qualification rounds. (No defensive robots for the position, or all defensive robots, etc)

Now, it occurred to me that what if you implemented a class system for robots. You would have to pick your class at the start of the build season and the rules would be so different that it would be difficult to switch mid-season. You would also register at the event as that particular robot class and the scheduling system would be designed to accommodate one robot of each class per alliance. The class system would also be designed with tiered levels of robot complexity and/or game complexity, so only a particular class can achieve a specific game objective. If there are more robots in a particular class they get less matches so their average score counts much more that a lower populated class which gets a lot more matches. It also give the teams who pick the "easier" class, traditionally the smaller or less experienced teams a fairly good chance to play with the more advanced, powerhouse type teams who pick the top tier class.

Now the obligatory wildly unlikely supporting data from the teaser....

Rally your Kingdom - In recent Fantasy culture when Kingdoms when to "war" they would have different classes of combat: Calvary Knights, Archers, Footmen
Build Your Champion - In most RPG games where you pick your character (Champion) you are expected to select some specialization class.
Different colors of flags on the tents - Could indicate different classes of "soldier" as stated above

So there you have it. It was a fun little though experiment... Thinking completely outside the preconceptions of games gone past. Keeps the mind limber I suppose and in actual fact the more I think about it, the more it sounds awesome.

Anyway, enough from me spoiling the worthwhile conversation here. Have fun and I will see you all around game time! :cool:

P.S For all you scouting fanatics - Easier Scouting as you only have to look at the classes outside yourself and easier pick lists when you are confined to a specific set of robots for a particular role.
I love the idea of classes of robots, but it would severely limit the possible alliances. Especially at district events, you'd end up with the same teams playing together more often than you'd like. I'd much rather have a game (and I think it would be more likely for FIRST to build a game) where any team can play with any team, at least in theory.

There's enough room for specialization in any game -- no need for FIRST to enforce it.

EricLeifermann 15-10-2015 14:51
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Bendicksen (Post 1500361)
I love the idea of classes of robots, but it would severely limit the possible alliances. Especially at district events, you'd end up with the same teams playing together more often than you'd like. I'd much rather have a game (and I think it would be more likely for FIRST to build a game) where any team can play with any team, at least in theory.

There's enough room for specialization in any game -- no need for FIRST to enforce it.
There were classes of robots in 2007. Alliances were not limited.....

T3_1565 15-10-2015 15:24
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricLeifermann (Post 1500362)
There were classes of robots in 2007. Alliances were not limited.....
what are these classes you speak of? teams made their own specialized bots but they were not FIRST regulated classes.

Specialists happen every year.

notmattlythgoe 15-10-2015 15:26
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by T3_1565 (Post 1500368)
what are these classes you speak of? teams made their own specialized bots but they were not FIRST regulated classes.

Specialists happen every year.
FIRST regulated classes just won't work in a randomized match setup. In the manner that is being proposed.

Christopher149 15-10-2015 15:30
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by T3_1565 (Post 1500368)
what are these classes you speak of? teams made their own specialized bots but they were not FIRST regulated classes.

Specialists happen every year.
Weight-restriction for height class. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_%27n_Roll

Code:
Class        I                II                  III
Height        48 in (1,219 mm)  60 in (1,524 mm)  72 in (1,829 mm)
Weight        120 lb (54 kg)    110 lb (50 kg)    100 lb (45 kg)

EricLeifermann 15-10-2015 15:41
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher149 (Post 1500372)
Weight-restriction for height class. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_%27n_Roll

Code:
Class        I                II                  III
Height        48 in (1,219 mm)  60 in (1,524 mm)  72 in (1,829 mm)
Weight        120 lb (54 kg)    110 lb (50 kg)    100 lb (45 kg)
Exactly, in 2007 you had to pick a class based on how tall your robot was, and you were inspected based on which class you declared and could not change for the duration of the competition(you could change in between comps).

pavong 15-10-2015 15:51
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
What about the robot in the video, anyone notice the eyes? They look alot like camera lenses, maybe robot vision will play a more important role in the game. Flag colour detection?

OAXACA 15-10-2015 15:55
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Moats are around castles.


Water Game Confirmed.

:deadhorse:

BBray_T1296 15-10-2015 16:14
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1500358)
From when bumpers started in 2006 through 2009, they could be any color of your choice (they could also say other things in addition to your team number). Other means (flags, posts on the Lunacy trailers) were used to identify alliance members. It wasn't until 2010 that bumpers became regulated as blue and red to signify alliances.
I think the bumper rules as of lately were the correct step that should not be reversed. It is much easier to tell who is on what team at all times, from queueing to mid-match.

The only way I could see a return to any-bumper-color-goes is in two situations:
a) There are NO alliances whatsoever, everyone plays by themselves against everyone, so you already know bumper colors don't matter
b) There are pre-determined roles that each robot must play, say in a 3v3 match each robot has a "attacker" a "defender" and something else, which is permanent through the match. This would require up to 6 different indicators for a robot to have, and asking for 6 sets of bumpers is ridiculous, so they switch to something else (like flags)

MikLast 15-10-2015 16:46
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9PvIsZL4cg
newton skunk on point with the MLG

GeeTwo 15-10-2015 16:57
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricLeifermann (Post 1500374)
Exactly, in 2007 you had to pick a class based on how tall your robot was, and you were inspected based on which class you declared and could not change for the duration of the competition(you could change in between comps).
I read the robot rules for 2007 last month, and I don't recall a requirement (or massive benefit) to an alliance being composed of exactly one robot of each class; it was simply a rules trade-off for each team, so unless I missed something, this is quite different than the proposed class system.

Harp98 15-10-2015 16:58
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
When you look at the characters in the video, its easy to see which are students vs the one who is the mentor (women in the purple robe). Then later in the video, from :36 to :44 you see what appears to be the drive team getting ready.

Now assuming the extra three represent the cheering stands it makes sense as mentioned earlier for the idea for no mentor drive coach, or even any drive coach at all, this is assuming the game has aspects that will have visual obstructions and dont want the drive team getting help.

Just my thoughts and first post

JB987 15-10-2015 17:07
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikLast (Post 1500383)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9PvIsZL4cg
newton skunk on point with the MLG
Who in the heck has enough free time to put together something as cool as this mash up so quickly? Well done!

MKalb 15-10-2015 17:07
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
I demand a trial by robot!

Ubiquity 15-10-2015 18:02
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
First of all - NO WATER as in actual H2O

(I am not sure if everyone yelling 'water game' is being sarcastic or not. I hope so, but just in case):

1: Most venues don't like water spilled on nice expensive wood basketball courts. FIRST doesn't like to pay damage expenses or alienate the venue.

2: Many robots experience electrical problems when splashed with water, this is a safety issue.

3: Wet carpet is hard to transport.

A false 'moat' filled with McDonald's Playland balls or other simulated 'water' hazard is possible.

Before spinning your wheels endlessly - how well have past hints accurately predicted the game? In about 10 weeks we will all know. I wouldn't be spending a lot of time boning up on "Game of Thrones" or "Lord of the Rings" to prepare.

Jalerre 15-10-2015 18:06
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
The more I look at the blueprint, the more I think that it is just a design for the new Dozer. It would make sense for a robotics team to be designing a robot and not a field (there is the argument that they are studying the field for strategic reasons, but a blueprint usually means they are designing something). Also right after they show the blueprint, there is the representation of the build season to produce the final robot.

BTW I haven't spent much time looking at the blueprint so I haven't exactly figured which parts of the blueprint are which parts of the robot

Hallry 15-10-2015 18:07
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubiquity (Post 1500395)
(I am not sure if everyone yelling 'water game' is being sarcastic or not. I hope so, but just in case)
This might clear it up for you

topgun 15-10-2015 18:15
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
I think them showing 6 members on a team is significant, somehow having more human players involved than in years past.

I could see a spinning center obstacle that needs to be pushed to get to the other side of the field or blocked to prevent other robots from entering your space.

I don't think the basics of the field will change significantly from the current setup. Too many statics venues and basic field structure constants prevent wildly different driver station setup.

I can't wait until January 9th!

Travis Hoffman 15-10-2015 18:26
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman (Post 1500162)
The blue flag has half-egg shapes on it. Those are CLEARLY the scoring goals, and the hexagons on the red flag are the game pieces. Wow I can't wait to begin prototyping tomorrow!

Wait - half eggs? THE DRAGONS HAVE HATCHED! CLONES OF EMILIA CLARKE WILL BE A PART OF THE PLAYING FIELD!

FIRE GAME!
Actually, my guess is I got it backwards. The "eggs" are actually the game pieces - FOOTBALLS.

The hexagons are representative of the many (mobile) hexagon-shaped goals to be fought over by each alliance "stronghold".

I like the idea of "drawbridges" or dare I suggest see-saw bridges in the middle of the field, along with a king of the hill fixed center goal on top of a ramp.


What if there are more goals than alliances? Maybe we're not playing Capture the Flag...we're playing Domination....

Poseidon5817 15-10-2015 18:36
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavong (Post 1500375)
What about the robot in the video, anyone notice the eyes? They look alot like camera lenses, maybe robot vision will play a more important role in the game. Flag colour detection?
This.

Some ideas I've been thinking about:

1. No mentor drive coaches. I'm not saying whether or not it is a good idea, but it seems likely.
2. Based on the fact that every recent year (except Recycle Rush) has had a game piece in the game logo, we can except to see a flag on the field.
3. Only red and blue alliances. The flag in the logo is only red and blue.
4. You'll notice that near the end, the robot drivers are driving while looking down the field. However, their robot is next to them. Maybe you will have to drive other team's robots? (very unlikely, but would require teams to design robots to be able to be driven easily, and have restrictions on the motion of mechanisms)
5. Similar to the last idea, we might have a section of the field where you cannot see your robot and have to drive from camera only. This could explain the design of the robot's eyes. This could also explain the choice to use a radio with only 2 ports, because there could be a rule where you can only use 1 camera.

Put it all together. Red and blue alliances in a CTF game with a tall midfield divider. Each alliance has a certain amount of objects to be captured. You score points by driving to the other alliance's side of the field, capturing a game piece, and delivering it to your side. The catch is that you can only see your robot while defending your flags. As soon as you cross to the opponent's side, you can only rely on camera feedback to capture the other alliance's flags This would make defending much easier, and scoring much more challenging.

Caleb Sykes 15-10-2015 18:50
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon1671 (Post 1500401)
1. No mentor drive coaches. I'm not saying whether or not it is a good idea, but it seems likely.
I would still say it is unlikely.

TheRozb 15-10-2015 20:03
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
It's really fun watching this whole thing come alive.
Anyway...

Some ideas that have been brought up:
-Multiple Alliances (more than 2). Probably not. As someone else has stated, field size would be an issue, and trying to increase or change the field size or shape could cause a lot of issues.

-Blueprint being the Field. Maybe??? I'm still skeptical. The middle part seems a bit too big, and the ends don't really look like anything that would be on the field. Plus, it is all a bit to obvious. (or maybe it's not. We are still talking about it)

-CTF. Sure, but how would that work well? Grab a flag... and then??? Drop it off at your team stand for a point? Time based in possession? It would be hard to do well. Maybe I just have a small mind

-Classes. Unlikely. Not really fair, because then you are forcing teams into a cookie cutter which isn't really what FIRST is about.

-Competitive Interaction between alliances (aka Defense). I really hope that last year's lack of interaction was a onetime thing. After all, they want to appeal to a broader audience, and would you rather watch a round of football live, or a round of golf live? (not trying to insult to golf players out there). Just that defense makes the game MUCH more interesting.

Well, that was my soapbox.

MrForbes 15-10-2015 20:16
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman (Post 1500399)
Actually, my guess is I got it backwards. The "eggs" are actually the game pieces - FOOTBALLS.
yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

alectronic 15-10-2015 20:33
Re: 2016 Game Hint Discussion?
 
Mods, can this thread be close in favor of the other?

naldarn 15-10-2015 20:42
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman (Post 1500144)
Those are Mickeys!!!!

Michael Hill 15-10-2015 20:43
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdangelo (Post 1500104)
Wow, that's weird. They didn't just change their font, which would make sense because FIRST's usual font is a little too stiff to fit in with rest of the game logo; but they also tilted the red triangle, and moved the blue square forwards. Usually its left corner is behind the red triangle's right corner.
Why would they do that? I don't think it makes a difference to the design of the game logo. I'm not saying it's a game hint--I really don't think it is--I just think that's totally weird. Unless they're going to change the official logo to that soon and just haven't gotten around to it yet
I just noticed the hero graphic had changed from when it was debuted. They removed the titled triangle logo from the webpage.

https://youtu.be/5J5aHLeVa4A?t=2044

http://www.usfirst.org/frc2016

MKalb 15-10-2015 20:52
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by naldarn (Post 1500410)
Those are Mickeys!!!!
Three hexagons up front. The dragon has three heads. Azor Ahai confirmed.

sciencenuetzel 15-10-2015 20:53
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon1671 (Post 1500401)
This.

Put it all together. Red and blue alliances in a CTF game with a tall midfield divider. Each alliance has a certain amount of objects to be captured. You score points by driving to the other alliance's side of the field, capturing a game piece, and delivering it to your side. The catch is that you can only see your robot while defending your flags. As soon as you cross to the opponent's side, you can only rely on camera feedback to capture the other alliance's flags This would make defending much easier, and scoring much more challenging.
This sounds fun

RocketDean 15-10-2015 21:07
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
I definately think the hard emphasis on "together" at the end of the video could mean that it is player vs. Field...

Bob Steele 15-10-2015 21:29
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB987 (Post 1500387)
Who in the heck has enough free time to put together something as cool as this mash up so quickly? Well done!
Stompin' on Dozer....

One of our alumni from last year... (one of the Daves) put this together.... He is amazing.

Duffy509 15-10-2015 21:42
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Is anyone else bothered by the Stronghold font? I don't understand why they would put a tail on the g and started seeing the r and n as a j I front of each letter. Also the way they combined the l and d makes it look like a u. I remember a cryptology game hint a couple years back and was wondering if this might be a key or if I have spent to many hours on this already.

MikLast 15-10-2015 22:04
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Steele (Post 1500416)
Stompin' on Dozer....
Do me a favor and give that guy props. He is living the dream.

Ian Curtis 15-10-2015 22:37
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
I suspect their graphic designers played the same video games as me when they were 12. Fun game!

dellagd 15-10-2015 22:58
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hill (Post 1500411)
I just noticed the hero graphic had changed from when it was debuted. They removed the titled triangle logo from the webpage.

https://youtu.be/5J5aHLeVa4A?t=2044

http://www.usfirst.org/frc2016
You're right.

Weird...

Robogeddon 16-10-2015 04:54
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
#dozerlives

Peter Cudmore 16-10-2015 08:47
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
One thing I have not seen brought up but occurred to me. If they are now partnered with the Disney Imaginarium people can we possibly expect non standard field elements designed by the partner. Perhaps the field itself will have moving components or might be a lot more high tech then we have seen before?

George1902 16-10-2015 08:59
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hill (Post 1500411)
I just noticed the hero graphic had changed from when it was debuted. They removed the titled triangle logo from the webpage.

https://youtu.be/5J5aHLeVa4A?t=2044

http://www.usfirst.org/frc2016
The first thing I thought of when I saw the Stronghold banner was that it violated the FIRST Branding & Design Standards.

omalleyj 16-10-2015 09:09
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
What do dragons and griffons have in common? Wings!
Flying game confirmed!
:yikes:

angelah 16-10-2015 10:09
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1500358)
From when bumpers started in 2006 through 2009, they could be any color of your choice (they could also say other things in addition to your team number). Other means (flags, posts on the Lunacy trailers) were used to identify alliance members. It wasn't until 2010 that bumpers became regulated as blue and red to signify alliances.
Changing bumpers can be a logistical issue, so maybe we are going back to freedom in bumpers, but flags mounted to the top of robots to show the alliance (thus the two holes in the top of the robot and them draping a flag over it.)

Also, about the conversation about reaching people outside the tent. I wonder if this is an attempt at the folks "outside the tent but not too far away." Sometimes you can go TOO far outside the tent (you see this sometimes with efforts to recruit more young women to STEM, FIRST, etc.) and then you reach no one. I don't know what the thought was, but I do know we get the most interest from folks when we talk about basketball and frisbee robots.

burde1jb 16-10-2015 10:28
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
2 Attachment(s)
Attachment 19358
Attachment 19359

Given the difference between the red and blue flags, here is my thought:

Capture the flag begins with red alliance's "flag" (likely a large bright light that can change between red & blue) already lit. Midfield is broken up by a significant barrier (like 2010) such that you could use only cameras to see once on the other side.

If ALL three blue alliance robots position themselves around the "flag", the "flag" turns to blue and the blue alliance gets X super mega awesome points. The red alliance must defend against them while also manipulating a game piece at midfield.

Game is over when the red alliance moves all game pieces to the center, the blue flag is lit, or 2:15 is over.

STRRRROOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHOOOOOOOLLLLLL LLDDDDD!!!1!1!1!!!111!1!

P.J. 16-10-2015 12:41
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Finally, my English degree is useful!

One aspect that I think many people are ignoring are the creatures represented on the flags, the griffin and the dragon. The griffin appears far too many times to just be random, and is even the first thing shown in the trailer. They could have just as easily chosen a different creature (unicorn, wolf, stag, Frank's face, whatever) or just left the flags solid colors. So I feel like the fact that they had designs on these flags has to have some sort of significance.

So the question becomes, what do both of these creatures have in common?

As someone a few posts above pointed out, they both have wings. But I'm not even going to go there.

In the myths of both griffins and dragons, one recurring theme is that the creatures are obsessed with their hoards of treasure. So what if each alliance has a set "hoard" of some sort (tennis balls?). They each begin the game with a certain amount of treasure, maybe spread through a few different goals/baskets/scoring areas and they have to both protect their "hoard" while trying to steal from the "hoard" of the other alliance. What would one use to protect their hoard? A stronghold, of course.

That's all I've got.

notmattlythgoe 16-10-2015 12:48
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
I keep going back and forth on the 6v0 aspect. On one hand it is interesting that the number of kids they chose is 6, and they mention facing the challenge ahead together.

On the other hand those same 6 kids are all working on the same robot, the kingdom could be the community, and facing it together could just be because it is a team. Also, those same 6 kid are on the "drive team" and 2 of them are just cheering so you could take that as that's the team just cheering on their drive team and robot.

And of course since Frank said it wasn't a hint, nothing in the video could matter except setting a theme for the name.

robert1356 16-10-2015 12:58
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricLeifermann (Post 1500129)
Not sure how this video is supposed to get the general public interested and excited about FIRST......
Completely agree

rick.oliver 16-10-2015 13:05
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
While scanning the posts, I noticed one comment similar (or the same) as one of the thoughts which came to mind while contemplating the Teaser.

Alliances assemble their "Champion" from prefabricated sub assemblies and the Champions compete in the match with or without other robots from the team.

I discounted this idea, but since I wasn't alone in that observation, I thought that I would second it (at least, as I did not read all of the 248 posts).

I wonder, when was cheesecake first served?

Rangel(kf7fdb) 16-10-2015 13:17
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Had another thought about the game. Perhaps this year, FIRST will allow different customization without penalizing teams weight wise? Like maybe there are vastly different tasks in this attacking defending game and robots will need to be build completely different depending on their role. While teams can be effective if they build for one role, this would encourage teams to be adaptable and powerhouse teams would have a new level of skill to achieve? Still think the holo lens will be involved somehow in the game. Perhaps drivers need to see through the holo lens when attacking or something in that regard.

rick.oliver 16-10-2015 13:19
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by P.J. (Post 1500490)
... both protect their "hoard" while trying to steal from the "hoard" of the other alliance. What would one use to protect their hoard? A stronghold, of course...
Perhaps each alliance has a fixed amount of treasure which must be placed in the Stronghold to count towards the score. One robot on the alliance is designated the "Champion" and that robot is the robot allowed to attack the stronghold of the opposite alliance and/or defend its own alliances stronghold.

The two remaining robots are tasked with placing the treasure in the stronghold and are prohibited from interacting with the Champions.

The Champions carry their respective flags, which may be acquired by the other Champion, once it is raised over the stronghold. The flag acts as a multiplier of the treasure stored in the stronghold.

A Champion may also place their own flag on their opponents stronghold claiming the treasure of the other alliance.

Seeding is similar to last season, where teams earn treasure points.

Jalerre 16-10-2015 15:46
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by P.J. (Post 1500490)
In the myths of both griffins and dragons, one recurring theme is that the creatures are obsessed with their hoards of treasure. So what if each alliance has a set "hoard" of some sort (tennis balls?). They each begin the game with a certain amount of treasure, maybe spread through a few different goals/baskets/scoring areas and they have to both protect their "hoard" while trying to steal from the "hoard" of the other alliance. What would one use to protect their hoard? A stronghold, of course.
I really like this idea and I think it matches the name and theme well. I'm imagining a really defense heavy game.

Jacob Bendicksen 16-10-2015 16:28
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick.oliver (Post 1500497)
I wonder, when was cheesecake first served?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
An ancient form of cheesecake may have been a popular dish in ancient Greece even prior to Romans' adoption of it with the conquest of Greece. The earliest attested mention of a cheesecake is by the Greek physician Aegimus, who wrote a book on the art of making cheesecakes (πλακουντοποιικόν σύγγραμμα—plakountopoiikon suggramma). The earliest extant cheesecake recipes are found in Cato the Elder's De Agri Cultura, which includes recipes for two cakes for religious uses: libum and placenta. Of the two, placenta is most like most modern cheesecakes, having a crust that is separately prepared and baked.
So cheesecake was around in medieval times...

Oh no.

Foster 16-10-2015 17:28
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Bendicksen (Post 1500535)
So cheesecake was around in medieval times...

Oh no.
You should focus your research on the more important question "When did the Corn Dog first appear". We know there were sausages then, was there a batter dipped fried version back then?

E Dawg 16-10-2015 17:29
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Of the two, placenta is most like most modern cheesecakes, having a crust that is separately prepared and baked.
Placenta = pregnancy.

9 month long build season confirmed.

Jared Russell 16-10-2015 17:32
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foster (Post 1500544)
You should focus your research on the more important question "When did the Corn Dog first appear". We know there were sausages then, was there a batter dipped fried version back then?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_dog#History

BOCsouthpaw 16-10-2015 18:01
Re: Thoughts on the teaser?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1500078)
What do you do with strongholds? Attack them and knock them down. Or defend them and repair them.
My thought is that it could mean you need a Strong Hold on something.

JB987 16-10-2015 18:07
Re: Thoughts on the teaser?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOCsouthpaw (Post 1500548)
My thought is that it could mean you need a Strong Hold on something.
As I also wondered. Maybe a strong hold on a pole or cross bar?

GaryVoshol 16-10-2015 19:10
Re: Thoughts on the teaser?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOCsouthpaw (Post 1500548)
My thought is that it could mean you need a Strong Hold on something.
Unlimited pinning. :eek:

Trey178 16-10-2015 19:55
Re: Thoughts on the teaser?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1500078)
What do you do with strongholds? Attack them and knock them down. Or defend them and repair them?

What about lifting yourself onto the stronghold? I love watching teams take on a hanging/climbing feature.

CurlyFries 16-10-2015 20:59
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
A few observations/ponderances (not sure if these have already been stated)

1. There are blue, red, AND yellow flags on the tents. Probably not three alliances, but then what are they?
2. You never see an opposing alliance in the video.
3. If the name really is "Stronghold" this year, that is starkly different than past game names, where the pattern is "adjective noun" (two words). Does this mean big changes?
4. At the end of the video, it says "prepare for the challenge now" keyword being CHALLENGE. Why would the video makers choose this word over "battle" or others, escpecially if the running theory is that this is a vs. game?

Alex Chamberlin 17-10-2015 12:55
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
1 Attachment(s)
Some things I've noticed if the blueprint is the field map. (See attachment)

On to the video:
They used the words together and challenger, so most likely the alliance will put forth one bot to do a task the others can't.
Cooperition is in full swing, perhaps in the form of "Killing" the dragon.
First likes throwing things (noodles Frisbees exercise balls moon rocks ect.) there will likely be some form of bombardment.

bEdhEd 17-10-2015 14:11
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CadetGizmo (Post 1500277)
Another thing I'm curious about is how the teaser image says "Build your champion."
I'm quite certain that the "champion" in the video is your team's competition robot.

runneals 17-10-2015 18:16
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
I just came across Stronghold that may or may not have been what the GDC based the game off of... The logo looks similar, but my team said "No Boots", so I guess you can take it or leave it... :D

kpaul 17-10-2015 18:59
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HedgeHogGal99 (Post 1500098)
My first thought after seeing the teaser was "Are our robots going to be jousting each other??"
Same. I showed this video to a bunch of non-frc friends and they said that too.

GeeTwo 18-10-2015 00:09
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
While cooking dinner this evening, I pulled a bunch of pieces together in my mind:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1500070)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThings (Post 1500073)
Capture the flag
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoutman777 (Post 1500109)
My guess would be some sort of tower defense game possibly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hgree56 (Post 1500116)
Just a thought: The video said "Face this task together" and showed a second "team" or "Alliance." Does this mean return of an end game like in 2012 where alliances have to tag-team to do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpalStone (Post 1500130)
I'm considering the flag element may be similar to 2011 Logomotion with the minibots. Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo (Post 1500169)
Maybe you need to build a pacifier to turn everyone into infants...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell1714 (Post 1500189)
7. The new improved plowie [sic] is made out of stones from the castle.

9. At 42 seconds the robot's arms are in a karate fighting position. I assume this means the robot will have a manipulator come out of the bumper perimeter to interact with game pieces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aur0r4 (Post 1500219)
I'm surprised the dialog hasn't gotten more attention.

"Build your champion" "rally your kingdom" "Face the challenge ahead together".


I have long thought that FIRST is going to move FRC into the same format as FTC, FLL, and JR. FLL.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDean (Post 1500266)
Did anybody notice that Dozer no longer has a "dozer" and now has hands with fingers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeeganP (Post 1500327)
Alternatively, maybe we have another end game where you must raise the opposing flag up fastest (think 2011 but with flags, not minibots).
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTwo (Post 1500335)
The manipulators on Gripper (the robot in the video) seem better adapted to pick up and position a flagpole than a ball.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trey178 (Post 1500567)
What about lifting yourself onto the stronghold? I love watching teams take on a hanging/climbing feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bEdhEd (Post 1500651)
I'm quite certain that the "champion" in the video is your team's competition robot.
That's what I thought, and still sort of think:

Looking even closer at Gripper's claws, they seem better at picking up small rectangular objects than round ones like balls or flagpoles. Gripper is also shown in the video at around 0:42 watching the action with the humans.

Synthesis:
Teams must build a robot which will assemble a Lego minibot from a bin of loose Lego parts. The minibot will enter the stronghold (probably also made of Legos), climb within the stronghold and fly a flag atop it.

MooreteP 18-10-2015 11:42
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Waited to post.

I'm gonna go with Flag Football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAlholm (Post 1500305)
tl;dr
Lunacy on carpet? Defend the trailers.
While teams in general disliked Lunacy, its game theory was interesting. While you were taking the time to score, you could be scored upon in your trailer.

FIRST logo pieces will be triangles (flags).
Each Robot will have a flag attached to it that can be taken and scored.

I'm still stuck on the Game Stop hint that Frank supplied.
Co-opertition based upon ending the game early with the alliance members agreeing to hit the E-Stops. Your score gets multiplied.
You may be losing the battle, but improve your rank with a score multiplier by calling it a day.

Boltman 18-10-2015 18:57
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Its obvious at end of video the robots arms are positioned to carry a flag. Pretty sure the robot will have to transport a flagpole to some point on the tower.

Zac Schofield 18-10-2015 20:07
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
So on usfirst.org, the banner they had for Stronghold on their main page had this on it before they edited it.
http://puu.sh/kL76B/4489c4c4ed.jpg

Why was "more" Spelt "m0re"?

LlNUX 18-10-2015 20:09
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
So my theory is that this year is that FIRST is gonna enforce teams to use vision tracking or cameras. Teams would have to enter the opposing alliance Stronghold to retrieve flags from it however I think there will be some kind of wall preventing humans from seeing the robot inside the stronghold so our robots are gonna need cameras to be controlled and retrieve the flags. As for an end game I think there is gonna be 2 towers on the middle of the field in which teams can rise their flags to gain extra points. That is at least how I imagine the game from the teaser shown.

kyle_hamblett 18-10-2015 20:38
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LlNUX (Post 1500800)
So my theory is that this year is that FIRST is gonna enforce teams to use vision tracking or cameras. Teams would have to enter the opposing alliance Stronghold to retrieve flags from it however I think there will be some kind of wall preventing humans from seeing the robot inside the stronghold so our robots are gonna need cameras to be controlled and retrieve the flags.
A robot selfie stick. Problem solved.

sanddrag 18-10-2015 20:54
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
I've noticed the banner appear on DoubleClick ads while browsing online. Interesting.

Mr. Rip 19-10-2015 10:31
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
I think everyone should start working on TreBotchets.

JohnSchneider 19-10-2015 15:40
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Rip (Post 1500876)
I think everyone should start working on TreBotchets.
I don't know that launching robots will be a part of the game :ahh:

Nevada Reno 19-10-2015 18:16
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
i think it is a capture the flag or king of the hill or battle bots

team 5430 is still trying to figure it out

Alex Chamberlin 19-10-2015 19:28
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSchneider (Post 1500917)
I don't know that launching robots will be a part of the game :ahh:
But what if it's legal. :ahh:

TheRozb 19-10-2015 20:25
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Chamberlin (Post 1500969)
But what if it's legal. :ahh:
Then the safety award would mean soo much more.

On another note, I really like the idea of incorporating a vision system as a 'requirement'. It seems like FRC is trying to move towards having teams build more than a epic drive base. Last year was all about the super-structure. I would not be surprised if this year involved maybe a smarter autonomous and an important vision system.

EricH 19-10-2015 20:34
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddrag (Post 1500809)
I've noticed the banner appear on DoubleClick ads while browsing online. Interesting.
You aren't the only one. I've seen it on 2+ spots per page on occasion.

TheRozb 19-10-2015 20:52
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1500979)
You aren't the only one. I've seen it on 2+ spots per page on occasion.
What if (and this is totally crazy) they are designing a mobile game that coincides with the actual FRC competition? It would explain the ads, the style of the video, and FIRST's attempt to have a wider appeal. Just a sort of crazy thought... (PLEASE! I hope I am wrong)

Shifter 20-10-2015 00:04
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
From the field map:

Lanes up the left side of the field allow a human player to draw back the tent flaps at mid-field that otherwise prevent drivers from seeing the opposing end of the field. Withdrawing both red and blue curtains for the majority of the match raises the yellow flag and increases co-op points. As long as the flaps stay “closed”, the drivers must rely on hand signals from their human player or cameras mounted to their robot when trying to score in goals at the far end of the field.

Three moveable goals start on the driver’s right on the near side of the field. Lines on the field map show where two of the goals have been dragged to the left side of the field for protection. Note that the human player on right side wall loaded game pieces into one of the goals on it’s way by. North/south lines track game pieces being thrown by a human player toward the relocated goals.

From the flags:

Shapes on the red and blue flags represent round balls (or maybe hex balls) being scored in one of three, three-compartment hexagonal floor goals. Game pieces are red, blue and yellow. Most balls in a goal (somehow) raises a flag of that color – red flag counts red balls in the goal for the red alliance; blue flag counts blue balls in the goal for the blue alliance; yellow flag scores total of all balls in the goal (red, blue and yellow) for both alliances.

Nevada Reno 21-10-2015 10:50
Re: 2016 Game Hint Discussion?
 
again this is a hard competition, so i think it is capture the flag.

bmire3206 21-10-2015 15:06
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Rip (Post 1500876)
I think everyone should start working on TreBotchets.
don't you mean trebuchets:confused: or are we shooting minibots

Citrus Dad 21-10-2015 16:39
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LlNUX (Post 1500800)
So my theory is that this year is that FIRST is gonna enforce teams to use vision tracking or cameras. Teams would have to enter the opposing alliance Stronghold to retrieve flags from it however I think there will be some kind of wall preventing humans from seeing the robot inside the stronghold so our robots are gonna need cameras to be controlled and retrieve the flags. As for an end game I think there is gonna be 2 towers on the middle of the field in which teams can rise their flags to gain extra points. That is at least how I imagine the game from the teaser shown.
I hope not as that would add yet another technical hurdle too far for less resourced or experienced teams. The stacking plus capping task was too much this year and contributed to a spreading disparity in the ability to teams to contribute to their alliances. Using cameras to drive is similarly difficult.

Citrus Dad 21-10-2015 16:43
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
By the way, didn't you notice on the field blueprint that there is a tree standing next to a pond in the middle of each zone? Water game!!! ;)

Doug Frisk 21-10-2015 16:49
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Dad (Post 1501178)
I hope not as that would add yet another technical hurdle too far for less resourced or experienced teams. The stacking plus capping task was too much this year and contributed to a spreading disparity in the ability to teams to contribute to their alliances. Using cameras to drive is similarly difficult.
The issue with Recycle Rush wasn't that capping was hard, it was. It was that capping was so overvalued that it became the only way to win. If scored recycling containers were worth 6 points plus 1 point per level the matches last year would have looked significantly different.

Which is to say, having a difficult engineering challenge as part of scoring is a great idea, but the harder the challenge is, the less it should impact the score of a match.

The hot goals in 2014 would be an example of a good pairing of technical challenge and scoring. It's a nice bonus, but a good team didn't need it to win.

Lil' Lavery 21-10-2015 17:15
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Dad (Post 1501178)
I hope not as that would add yet another technical hurdle too far for less resourced or experienced teams. The stacking plus capping task was too much this year and contributed to a spreading disparity in the ability to teams to contribute to their alliances. Using cameras to drive is similarly difficult.
Using cameras for tele-operation is not nearly as hard as you're saying it is. I'd wager that a majority of teams already have a camera display on their driver station dashboard. If the cameras are provided in the KoP, almost any team should be able to handle that challenge. That's not to say there won't be teams getting help in the pits (with either software or camera positioning), but it's not really a difficult technical challenge.

GeeTwo 21-10-2015 20:26
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Dad (Post 1501179)
By the way, didn't you notice on the field blueprint that there is a tree standing next to a pond in the middle of each zone? Water game!!! ;)
While I'm not the first to say this, it's been a while. The longer I look at those blueprints and how they fit into the video, the more I'm convinced that they are the design for Gripper, not the field.

Electronica1 21-10-2015 20:28
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Dad (Post 1501179)
By the way, didn't you notice on the field blueprint that there is a tree standing next to a pond in the middle of each zone? Water game!!! ;)
Sounds more like golf. The bp on it could also be golf clubs. Wouldn't make a ton of sense for the game name though.

Oblarg 21-10-2015 20:54
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LlNUX (Post 1500800)
So my theory is that this year is that FIRST is gonna enforce teams to use vision tracking or cameras.
The day an FRC game requires the use of a camera is the day that a huge number of low-resource teams are completely screwed.

EricH 21-10-2015 21:03
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblarg (Post 1501217)
The day an FRC game requires the use of a camera is the day that a huge number of low-resource teams are completely screwed.
Or, more to the point: teams that don't have time and programming resources for it. Particularly the programming resources. Think you (reader) don't know any of those teams? You're probably wrong.

As I recall, one of the game design requirements has historically been that ALL resource levels need to be able to play the game.

Roborunner230 22-10-2015 07:59
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Montois (Post 1500092)
Red, Blue, Yellow, and Green tents in the intro.
They are also in the final logo. They were not accidentally placed there.

Lil' Lavery 22-10-2015 10:32
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblarg (Post 1501217)
The day an FRC game requires the use of a camera is the day that a huge number of low-resource teams are completely screwed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1501220)
Or, more to the point: teams that don't have time and programming resources for it. Particularly the programming resources. Think you (reader) don't know any of those teams? You're probably wrong.

As I recall, one of the game design requirements has historically been that ALL resource levels need to be able to play the game.
http://wpilib.screenstepslive.com/s/...an-axis-camera

http://wpilib.screenstepslive.com/s/...smartdashboard

If the camera and appropriate guidance is provided in the kit, it wouldn't be an issue. Will there still be teams that show up to events without it working? Of course, we have teams that show up with robots that can't drive as it is. But this is an issue that can be worked through in the pits on practice day, not some unmountable obstacle.

To be clear, I'm not endorsing any theories that cameras will be required to play this game. But getting video feedback to your driver's station is not difficult or resource intensive.

Oblarg 22-10-2015 11:30
Re: Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1501302)
To be clear, I'm not endorsing any theories that cameras will be required to play this game. But getting video feedback to your driver's station is not difficult or resource intensive.
Getting it to work reliably through competition certainly is.

Last year, we spent more time at competition debugging fritz-y webcams than anything else on the robot. Eventually we had to give up and continue without camera feedback.


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