[FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Posted on the FRC Blog, http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...e-piece-option

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Please give this to US teams also. Please. Please please please.
We will send cheesecake.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

I second this, especially if the game pieces are easy to break...

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

We'd also love this!

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

This is their payback for NASA grant U.S. exclusivity. :)

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Quite simply, thank you! This will be a huge help to so many international teams.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned the implication, that is, that it doesn't appear that the game piece this year will be something universally available such as a soccer ball.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Not necessarily.

Even when the game piece is "universally available" such as 2010, many teams were unable to obtain the specific ball (which had a unique texture which greatly affected gripping it).

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Totes were fairly common, but you needed to have the correct size tote in order to properly prototype and practice the game. Same thing would probably go for say a soccer ball or football etc.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

LOL! I agree though, US teams too please!

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Ditto, give this an option to all teams.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Hmm. "Kickoff Kit’s worth of game pieces" and a "set of game pieces". So that usually means >1 game piece in the kit. Does that mean there will be many game pieces (like 2013) on the field vs. few like 2014?. Or will there be two or more distinct types of game pieces, like 2015?

But a 'set' can also be a set of one, and maybe 'set' was used so as not to give it away that their will be only game piece in the standard kit.

Also, the value of a set of game pieces is 30% of the FIRST Choice credits, wo we have a rough cost of the game piece.

So many hints, so much time...

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Almost every year I can think of the game piece wasn't universally available. It's not like there's only 1 brand and model of soccer ball, or basketball, or frisbee... and depending on mechanism and goal, even the slightest difference in material, size, shape, or weight could have a huge impact. Having the exact brand and model of the game piece really is important.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

And batch (2012).

The one year it wasn't all THAT important was 2009--but part of that was because teams did some reverse engineering on the limited supply available and came up with their own knockoffs that worked all right (but weren't the real thing).


That being said, I do think that this is something that should be expanded, IF this test works as planned. I don't trust that gamepiece X will be a common, everyday, "found in your local WalMart" item regardless of what anybody says (again, 2009 memories).

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

I worry that they're offering this only to international teams in part because they won't have enough available to make it available to all teams.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

My initial thoughts also....hope its not true.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Or, maybe the gamepiece is something much less common outside the US.

Like footballs. :cool:

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

I dont really see the relation with 'Stronghold' but i'm in! :cool:

I hope it's not something with the dimensions from inches - cm, very annoying.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

At least until Jan 9 I'm willing to believe what FIRST said in the blog post - the reason for doing this is only because of the time delay in shipping FIRST Choice items. If US teams can get the game piece in ~1 week through FIRST Choice, then that isn't all that bad. Waiting over half the build season, on the other hand, is horrible, especially if there's no other way to get it except through international shipping.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

It has been a few years since first picked an "easily available" which I would guess was due to nature of game, but also difficulty of having material available.
Some may miss the days hacking into Walmarts product distribution database to find the highest availability of gamepieces in the tri-state area... I for one do not miss that mad rush.

This would be a really nice feature for all teams, but I imagine nearly essential for many international teams.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Would teams really give up 30% of their FC credit just to get a few game pieces a couple days faster? I just went back and looked and we got our totes on Thursday of week 1. Would getting an extra RC, tote, and Noodle five days earlier been worth it? Our last 30% of just round one FC credit last season got us roughly a 6 awg crimping tool, a victor 888, & a snap action breaker kit.

Also extra game pieces at local kickoff sites would be more logistics to take care of by the kickoff hosts and the people that pack the kits (which has gotten better in the past few years it seems). I guess FIRST could ship them like they do the international teams but you still probably wouldn't get them Saturday.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Some US teams didn't get to use all of their credits last year on the things they REALLY wanted, so yes.

edit - don't get me wrong, I think the FIRST Choice system is reasonable as-is - but the game piece thing would be a way to make it better.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

What should a rookie team based in Canada choose? Could you help? :)

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Definitely opt in to the extra game pieces at kickoff option. With the prohibitive cost of shipping things across the border as well as the duty and brokerage fees, the more stuff you get included with your kickoff kit the better.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

But it would reduce our possibilities from First choice... Is it that dramatic?

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

It's pretty hard to get good items with the last 20-50% of your FIRST choice points anyway, so I figure it's a fair trade.

Game pieces often go early in FIRST choice as well, so by selecting them you're getting two first round picks.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

It's very dramatic. The shipping cost isn't that bad, but the additional brokerage and duties that are collected after the fact, and often not included in the cost of shipping. Our team has been burned repeatedly with exorbinant bills for shipping things across the border (we got a bill from McMaster this summer for thousands of dollars duties/taxes for the past few years of purchases), so anything we can do to avoid being on the hook for import charges is something we'll take advantage of.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

Oh, that's not a very good thing for low budget teams... :ahh: Thank you guys for your feedback!

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

If managed properly, this would actually help make game pieces available. The demand for a FIRST game piece is mostly in a one-month time frame, and constitutes several years of normal demand. If FIRST orders 100,000 game pieces for base kits and competition, the manufacturer is not likely to make all of the 200,000 needed to fill the short-term demand. On the other hand, if many teams make this selection, and FIRST orders 200,000, the manufacturer is much more likely to make the other 100,000.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

That is a great explanation! I tought it was more about shipping delays...

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

It is all about the shipping. When FIRST decides on a game piece they put in an order for as many as they estimate will be needed. x% gets shipped to FedEx for packaging in kits, x% gets sent to FIRST for game use and x% gets shipped to AndyMark for teams to purchase whether for cash or points. All this will do is change the ratio of items going to FedEx vs AM.

Whether they make the right initial estimation or not is another story. Last year FIRST grossly over estimated how many totes were going to be damaged in game play so they purchased way too many, leading to lots of totes being shipped around the country never being touched. Yet teams really wanted 6 or more compatible totes so that they could practice making and transporting 6 stacks.

On the other hand they underestimated how many teams would pop their exercise balls in testing/practice for Ariel Assault leading to a shortage at AM.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

These days, if an off-the-shelf non-perishable item takes much longer than a week to get (in the lower 48 of the U.S.A.), it's almost certainly a supply shortage, not a shipping problem (with the notable exceptions of batteries coming out of Hong Kong and anything coming out of or through places in a state of warfare). Companies absolutely do not want to be stuck with inventory that they can't move in a fairly short time frame; they could be using that money better.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

This. I'm taking what's said at face value because I have no reason not to think so at this point. Not having a bunch of the exact game pieces isn't a huge deal during brainstorming and proof of concept phases, thus why US teams haven't really complained before. It is a big deal as you get to specific mechanism design and testing, which is why overseas teams have complained.

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

I was just thinking with all this discussion about shipping costs - could that be a reason for this as well? Perhaps the game pieces are large or unusually shaped, thus making their shipment difficult or expensive, particularly internationally. Of course, anything larger than the recycling container from 2015 would get unwieldy pretty quickly....

Re: [FRC Blog] International Teams -- Game Piece Option
 

That pretty much settles the "Will there be game pieces?" question ala Game Sense! There will be game pieces, no doubt about it.