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EDesbiens 30-10-2015 21:09
Multi-team?
 
Hi CD!

I was wondering... Could a student be legally in two teams? I searched about it and didn't find any clues for or against that...

Thanks for your answers!

orangemoore 30-10-2015 21:14
Re: Multi-team?
 
I don't believe you can.

Looking for the rule now...

EDIT: I can't seem to find it in the manual.

I recall reading something about it in the past about you cannot represent two teams at a competition but I cannot remember where that came from.

Common sense would suggest you can work on two teams but only really be on one team at a competition.

Whippet 30-10-2015 21:23
Re: Multi-team?
 
STIMS won't allow you to register for more than one team, but I don't recall any rule specifically stating that you cannot actively participate in multiple teams in the same FIRST program.

Bluman56 30-10-2015 21:32
Re: Multi-team?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippet (Post 1502458)
STIMS won't allow you to register for more than one team, but I don't recall any rule specifically stating that you cannot actively participate in multiple teams in the same FIRST program.
Adding to this, I recall some teams having to leave regionals early (weather hazards) and requiring substitute drive teams due to school policy in an effort to not get disqualified. So, while technically possible, it is extremely rare under specific circumstances.

EDesbiens 30-10-2015 21:34
Re: Multi-team?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluman56 (Post 1502460)
Adding to this, I recall some teams having to leave regionals early (weather hazards) and requiring substitute drive teams due to school policy in an effort to not get disqualified. So, while technically possible, it is extremely rare under specific circumstances.
That's what I'm looking for... I want to know if someone from another team can join our drive team...

EricH 30-10-2015 22:03
Re: Multi-team?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDesbiens (Post 1502461)
That's what I'm looking for... I want to know if someone from another team can join our drive team...
I introduce you to 2015's G32 (which I would count on being similar in text if not in number for 2016--it's one of THOSE rules), in full.
Quote:
G32 During a MATCH, the ROBOT shall be operated solely by the DRIVERS and/or HUMAN PLAYERS of that Team.
VIOLATION: Offending ROBOT will be DISABLED.
Exceptions may be made before a MATCH for major conflicts, e.g. religious holidays, major testing, transportation issues, etc.
The basic thing to take away from that is that you're not supposed to have someone from another team on your drive team. The exception is to specifically allow certain problematic elements to not disrupt the team's event too much. Probably the biggest user of the exception is the teams from Israel who attend Champs.

I would not go into an event planning to have someone from another team on your drive team, unless you knew that a religious holiday or major testing was going to be a factor and was unavoidable. Especially with that "may" in there--that makes it clearly discretionary on the part of the event staff (though those folks are generally accommodating).

EDesbiens 30-10-2015 22:07
Re: Multi-team?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1502464)
I introduce you to 2015's G32 (which I would count on being similar in text if not in number for 2016--it's one of THOSE rules), in full.


The basic thing to take away from that is that you're not supposed to have someone from another team on your drive team. The exception is to specifically allow certain problematic elements to not disrupt the team's event too much. Probably the biggest user of the exception is the teams from Israel who attend Champs.

I would not go into an event planning to have someone from another team on your drive team, unless you knew that a religious holiday or major testing was going to be a factor and was unavoidable. Especially with that "may" in there--that makes it clearly discretionary on the part of the event staff (though those folks are generally accommodating).
But, in the case where a student could be part of two teams, he could technically be on either drive team...

orangemoore 30-10-2015 22:10
Re: Multi-team?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDesbiens (Post 1502466)
But, in the case where a student could be part of two teams, he could technically be on either drive team...
You would likely have to pick one team or the other for the entire competition and not switch during that time.

MaGiC_PiKaChU 30-10-2015 22:26
Re: Multi-team?
 
Quote:
G32 During a MATCH, the ROBOT shall be operated solely by the DRIVERS and/or HUMAN PLAYERS of that Team.
VIOLATION: Offending ROBOT will be DISABLED.
Exceptions may be made before a MATCH for major conflicts, e.g. religious holidays, major testing, transportation issues, etc.
To be considered a team member, you have to be registered to that team through STIMS, so technically all students presents at the regional have to be registered to their own team for legal issues.
If you ever find a way, i also have concerns with always having a different drive team for each match...
  1. How long will your robot stay alive when it's controlled by kids who never tried it before? I'd consider forming your own drive team, if you want your robot to stay functional more than 3 matches :ahh:
  2. It's not really fair to your alliance to play with that kind of robot, because it's obvious it's not gonna perform like it should due to the complete lack of driving skills and knowledge about the robot... That could mean that robot would bring more fouls than actual score, and act like an handicap...
  3. It would take your robot way more time to queue up for your matches, because you'd have to find your new drive team every match, in addition to normal pit tasks, and i understand that you're limited in terms of human ressources :rolleyes:

EDesbiens 31-10-2015 08:54
Re: Multi-team?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaGiC_PiKaChU (Post 1502470)
To be considered a team member, you have to be registered to that team through STIMS, so technically all students presents at the regional have to be registered to their own team for legal issues.
If you ever find a way, i also have concerns with always having a different drive team for each match...
  1. How long will your robot stay alive when it's controlled by kids who never tried it before? I'd consider forming your own drive team, if you want your robot to stay functional more than 3 matches :ahh:
  2. It's not really fair to your alliance to play with that kind of robot, because it's obvious it's not gonna perform like it should due to the complete lack of driving skills and knowledge about the robot... That could mean that robot would bring more fouls than actual score, and act like an handicap...
  3. It would take your robot way more time to queue up for your matches, because you'd have to find your new drive team every match, in addition to normal pit tasks, and i understand that you're limited in terms of human ressources :rolleyes:
What if I would only be looking for a human player... And what if it was always the same person? I think those problems are easily avoidable...

Daniel_LaFleur 31-10-2015 08:56
Re: Multi-team?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1502464)
I introduce you to 2015's G32 (which I would count on being similar in text if not in number for 2016--it's one of THOSE rules), in full.


The basic thing to take away from that is that you're not supposed to have someone from another team on your drive team. The exception is to specifically allow certain problematic elements to not disrupt the team's event too much. Probably the biggest user of the exception is the teams from Israel who attend Champs.

I would not go into an event planning to have someone from another team on your drive team, unless you knew that a religious holiday or major testing was going to be a factor and was unavoidable. Especially with that "may" in there--that makes it clearly discretionary on the part of the event staff (though those folks are generally accommodating).
Without a rule to prohibit 1 person from being on 2 teams, it would be very hard (and controversial) for a head ref to enforce G32, if both teams claimed that person as part of their team. Especially if that person worked on both teams DURING the season

EricH 31-10-2015 12:38
Re: Multi-team?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur (Post 1502493)
Without a rule to prohibit 1 person from being on 2 teams, it would be very hard (and controversial) for a head ref to enforce G32, if both teams claimed that person as part of their team. Especially if that person worked on both teams DURING the season
That is correct. I would, in fact, suggest that if that person can possibly work on both teams, they should. (Given some of the previous discussion about the specific team in question, though, that might be a lot harder than it sounds.)

For the record, I have heard of a single-student team competing before, with much support. A short-handed team can be supplied. But, if I was structuring a drive team and knew that I might be shorthanded, I'd start by trying to remove the second robot operator (if possible due to robot structuring), then the coach. HP can act as coach if they aren't HP'ing (but the reverse is not necessarily true).

For mentors (not students), it's a whole lot easier, I must say. Mentors can be on multiple teams in FIRST's records.

EDesbiens 31-10-2015 15:24
Re: Multi-team?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1502515)
That is correct. I would, in fact, suggest that if that person can possibly work on both teams, they should. (Given some of the previous discussion about the specific team in question, though, that might be a lot harder than it sounds.)

For the record, I have heard of a single-student team competing before, with much support. A short-handed team can be supplied. But, if I was structuring a drive team and knew that I might be shorthanded, I'd start by trying to remove the second robot operator (if possible due to robot structuring), then the coach. HP can act as coach if they aren't HP'ing (but the reverse is not necessarily true).

For mentors (not students), it's a whole lot easier, I must say. Mentors can be on multiple teams in FIRST's records.
I have already tried the exercise of removing the second operator in the last three seasons and I ended up with fairly good results... I am mainly asking this question for help in the pit and having a human player.

GeeTwo 31-10-2015 15:50
Re: Multi-team?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaGiC_PiKaChU (Post 1502470)
To be considered a team member, you have to be registered to that team through STIMS, so technically all students presents at the regional have to be registered to their own team for legal issues.
As I understand it, all FIRST competitions are open to the public, so anyone can wander in, and even work on another team's robot in the pits. It happens all the time, and we even awarded our GP trophy last year based on one of our team member's hours spent working in a rookie team's pits. There are only a few specific functions which require someone to be a member of the team. Student drivers and HPs are definite cases, and while I haven't checked the rules specifically, I recall that questions and challenges, chairman's award presenters, and representatives in the alliance selection process are also required to be team members.

MaGiC_PiKaChU 31-10-2015 17:18
Re: Multi-team?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDesbiens (Post 1502492)
What if I would only be looking for a human player... And what if it was always the same person? I think those problems are easily avoidable...
Then again, that person has to be registered on your team via STIMS to be eligible on your drive team If you already have one specific person in mind, then you could arrange that right now and have him/her register in your team

EDesbiens 31-10-2015 20:52
Re: Multi-team?
 
Just found out that on the printed roster from TIMS we could manually add students... So, even if the student doesn't join the team via STIMS, can we add them this way?

EDesbiens 06-11-2015 12:39
Re: Multi-team?
 
Sorry for upping this again... Just wanted to add that I received a confirmation email from FRC telling students can officially be on two teams... We only need a written confirmation for the student list...


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