New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

I'm enjoying watching REV release new products, and am looking forward to seeing what WCProducts, AndyMark, and Vex have up their sleeves. I would love to see an inverted CIM gearbox from somebody. What are you all looking for?

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Im looking forward to the new motor controllers, and looking for a replacement for the 550 and 775 motors.

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I would Love to see a West Coast style Ball shifting Gearbox from VexPro, and Some really grippy Rubber Wheels to replace the Banebots wheels that we are so rapidly running out of.

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They already sell a WCD ballshifter attachment. The third stage functions as one.

I want to see more GT2 belts, lightened 32P gears (the WCP ones are solid and heavy), a more efficient/ less noisy versaplanetary, cycloidal gearboxes, a built-in versaplanetary encoder stage, a 16t, 22t, and 26t gear, more ballshifter gears (perhaps smaller than 34t?), cheap encoders (please?), and more rangefinders (IR and unltrasonic mostly).

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SDP-SI should have any GT2 belt you could possibly need.

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I'd love if Vex had a 28t gear in 1/2"Hex, 3/8" Hex, and 1/2" round.

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Often out of stock and takes weeks to ship. We used them this year, but I would prefer a more reliable supplier.

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We've used BB-Man and they've been pretty fast. But again we just use the 15mm wide pulleys and belts from VEX/WCP to make life easier.

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Really? I've never had a problem with their shipping speed, definitely got products within a week the last two build seasons. I've designed around what products they have in stock though, the product lookup tied to the center distance calculator makes that pretty easy to go up/down a size at a time.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Has the efficiency of the versaplanet been causing issues for you?

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

It's very noisy compared to the custom gearboxes that other teams use, and was especially noticable on our elevator this year. Most of the noise of our robot running came from the versaplanetary and the compressor fan. I need to get around to testing the actual efficiency one day, but at the moment the noise alone makes me wish for a change.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

I can second this, they're so loud that I'm always worried that something's wrong with them. On that note, I've seen far more failures of versaplanetaries than of any other stock FRC gearbox. They're a really nice idea, I just haven't had good luck with them.

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I'd rather have a noisy gearbox then one that doesn't work as well, but maybe that's just me...

Especially considering the VP isn't as loud as common COTS gearboxes in the past.

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I'd love to see an electronic pressure controller or electronic variable pneumatic regulator.

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I think the only issues we've ever had with VersaPlanetaries have been related to misuse or improper assembly.

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40A 2 wire slip rings.

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Same - I'm surprised to see so many comments about failures in here. We've had nothing but great experiences (with the ones we put together correctly... :) )

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I used to think that too. With a little research I found two types of encoders that are <$30. You can get CUI 10X-V encoders for ~$24 dollars on digikey. That is a quality incremental encoder but some time you need absolute value on things. While after doing a little research I discovered this ~$28 magnetic encoder, have not used it but it is on my list if the need for absolutel positioning arises.

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We have nothing but great things to say about the Versaplanetary gearbox line.

We only had one failure all season and it was completely our fault - we abused the gearbox well beyond what it should have stood up to while prototyping our elevator. Even with 4 totes slamming our elevator carriage to the ground the gearbox still stood up to the shock loads we were repeatedly putting on it. It also made us realize we needed a disc brake at the price of just putting a new gear stage into the gearbox - a very valuable and cheap lesson when time is a factor during build season.

Versaplanetary gearboxes & the versa chassis products have changed the way we design robots in a really good way.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

If you have any issues with VersaPlanetaries or other VEXpro products please let me know, I'm happy to help out. (See email in signature)

-Aren

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

We have used lots of Versaplanetaries since their inception and have never had any noise or failures. We love those things.

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We have noise on Versaplanetaries when the pinion isn't seated/mounted correctly. The pinion attachment either rubs the motor plate or it rubs the opposite gear/plate. It really pays to pay close attention to the text in the instructions when assembling these things.

Before we apply power, we use a hex hub to reverse-drive the motor by hand. If there's any binding or chattering, we disassemble and reassemble. It should be smooth-running in both directions (caveat - we've only done 2-stage, up to 49:1).

As for 'wishes' (though it may be too late given supply chain timing)
- Grippy roller variations
- Anything to help with the mating of bumpers to frames with quick disconnects

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Hoping someone starts selling plugs for tubing with hex and/or the standard sprocket bolt pattern.
A COTS roller solution could be a game changer.

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you mean like this http://www.competitionrobotparts.com...or-roller-kit/

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I think he means intake rollers.

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I'll have to try and reassemble ours to see if the gear rubbing was the cause of the noise. Thanks!
Also, as far as grippy wheels go, urethane rollers would be amazing so we don't have to buy them in 12" sections and cut them down.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

I am surprised by the complaints related to VersaPlanetaries. I would agree that they are noisy, but I've found them to be incredibly robust while providing a wealth of gearing options.

2013 and prior, Team 20 used Banebots Planetaries (P60s) or Andymark Gearmotors as a planetary solution. The gearmotors were really quite heavy and had limited available ratios. The Banebot Planetaries at the time had sintered gears. Over time after proper assembly, mounting, and loading the gears would still be pulverized into powder. The gearboxes would seize up and we would open them to find our gears were worn to shreds and the grease had metal powder suspended in it. In 2013 we even designed our collector subassembly to be quick change so we could swap out the whole thing in under 5 minutes. This was after a poor experience in 2012 where I probably spent 10 hours over the course of the season replacing BB P60s (poor design for maintenance also to blame).

I still haven't seen a single VersaPlanetary stop working with proper assembly and when mounted and loaded properly.

I do know that in 2014 when we selected Team 229 at the Tech Valley Regional their collector had not been working in their final qualification match. Their VersaPlanetary gearbox had seized up and stopped working, but I knew we had replacements in our pit, so we picked them anyway with the last pick of the draft. When we went to put the new gearbox and motor on their robot, I noted that the mounting of the gearbox was not rigid at all and we were able to work on a modification together that to my knowledge worked for the rest of the season. The sloppiness of their original mount led to strange shock loads in the gearbox due to oscillating tension on the sprocket driven by the gearbox. This highlights how important mounting and loading are the to gearbox functionality.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Same. This spring GOFIRST built a number of small robots using them as drive gearboxes (15 gearboxes total), and the only issues we had were traced to overgreasing them and a poor mounting job to the frame.

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I said it in an earlier thread on the same topic. If someone were to make a hub that clamps or keys onto standard 1" tube, we could have a COTS solution for long shafts that won't twist 10 degrees under load.

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If you Google "electrical slip ring wind turbine" you get a pretty good selection of choices. They are all for low speed(~250 RPM), I don't know what your application is. I also assumed that you were not trying to transfer any load though them.

The one I used is made by Moflon, three wires, 30Amp and cost me about $30. MW1330 is the model I have. As always your mileage will vary.

If you are after just doing control signals, Adafruit has some low voltage, low current ones. 2A / 6 wires ~$15 plus shipping.

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I assume his application is to power a CIM on a swerve module and get full rotation without a coaxial power transmission setup.

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I've got one similar to your 30A one. The big issue is that means I'd have to run CIMs on a 30A breaker since the slip ring is only rated to 30A. It's for 16 style swerve modules. And getting rid of the extra wire would help them be lighter.

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Speaking of VersaPlanetaries, I'd love to see a longer 1/2" hex output shaft for the VersaPlanetaries...say 6-8".

I second the need for a Banebot wheel alternatives/replacements...smooth tread, 1/2" hex bore, differing durometer materials, really cheap, and larger than 2.5" diameter.

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Would love to see VersaWheels with the "W" tread pattern in a 3.25" size. Image of the tread pattern:

http://www.vexrobotics.com/media/cat...1/217-2903.jpg

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

I haven't actually assembled any myself, but I'll try to oversee the next time one gets put together and pass this on in case they've been doing it sloppily. Thanks.

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We've used versaplanetaries both this year and last. The only had issues we had were some pins in the carrier plate were not flush on one side which caused friction and binding. This was fixed by an arbor press to make the pins flush.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

More or less in order of importance...

1. More VexPro gear sizes. We have a pretty good variety of 1/2 and 3/8 hex gears, but I'd particularly like to have 18, 22, 28, and 32t gear options. Really, it'd be ideal to have every even gear tooth count from 14 - 70t available... we aren't too far from it, but somehow lacking those few missing ones feels limiting when designing custom shifting gearboxes. It'd also be nice to have a few more sizes of Ball-Shifter gears... 40t, 46t, and 56t especially... although I suppose some might like 64t too. Instead of really only having a few 10t and a 16t pairing to choose from (34-44, 44-54, 44-60, and 50-60), we'd have more 10t splits along with some potentially really nice 12t and 14t ones (40-50, 40-54, 44-56, 46-56, 46-60, 50-64, 54-64). A few more sizes in the 80+ tooth range with VersaKey/Bearing Bore mounting would be icing on the (cheese)cake...

2. Seconding the 'VersaPlanetary Encoder Block' suggestion. Our team uses more motors with encoders than without (I think only 2 of the motors on our 2013-2015 robots didn't have encoders)... having to design in encoders can often be tedious or unnecessarily constrain the design.

3. Longer options for the Ballshifter output shaft (even if it was just the .5" hex shaft and we'd install them separately... perhaps that'd be preferable anyway?)

Really though, I'd like to thank AndyMark and VexPro for what they've been doing over the past few years to supply good options to designers experienced and inexperienced to make it easier to do the 'ordinary' and the extraordinary. The selection of COTS frames, wheels, gearboxes, and the various 'building blocks' like hex and tube shaft, hub adapters, gears, etc. is truly fantastic! And even while the selection has broadened, the prices have become lower too!

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One specific extra ratio would be nice as well. A 27T 3/8 Hex gear, and then 47T 1/2 Hex and Dog Gears. This would give a nice in between ratio for the WCP gearboxes, that would be fantastic at about 13 FPS.

One other thing I would like to see is a COTS Disk Brake. The Poofs brake from this year seemed very simple, and it seems like it would be pretty easy to make COTS.

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Since this is turning into a wish list thread:

More support for 1/2" keyed round shafts. Not every team owns a hex broach, and 1/2" round axles often match what is available from non-FRC suppliers. Many products have this option available, but not all do, and we end up having to purchase hex hubs to accommodate those products in our design. Last year that turned into a significant delay as we waited for the hex hubs for the Colson wheels we were mounting directly on our WCP transmissions. The rest of our wheels were mounted without that delay, since we used 1/2" keyed. This can often go hand-in-hand with the hex shaft and hex bearing shortages we see during build season.

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A 3/8" hex bore bearing with a 0.875" OD.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Chain tools for 35 and 25 chain similar to this one:
http://www.parktool.com/product/chai...category=Chain

Sprockets for bike chain. (cheaper, more available, lighter and more resistant to misalignment than #35 chain. If you get the unreasonably expensive stuff it's even lighter than #25 while being considerably stronger)

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Chain breakers are already commonly available. You can even find tools that can re-peen the old pin like this one from 221 Systems or this one.

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This is probably being picky, but a 3 CIM Ball Shifter WCD with Native support for two 15mm pulleys would be great!

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Personally, I am looking forward to the long-awaited adoption of unobtanium as a primary material for all items. This is a long awaited and much needed change in my opinion.

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;)

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I second this.

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This would be great. Until the day this is COTS, anyone know of good ways to modify bike sprockets for FRC? Anyone seen it done successfully?

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http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=131586

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...41&postcount=3

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

That first one is a total piece of crap. Gets the job done (usually) but there's nothing to like about it. The dark soul one is a must have for all teams though. Great product (not sure if you meant to link it twice, but your second and third links are the same product on different sites).

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

The dark soul is absolutely the best 25 chain tool I know of. It's not as good as the park tool I've linked is for bike chain. There is no good option for 35 now that I know of. I doubt it would be difficult to make a replacement pin and alignment plate for the park tool but it is impractical for most individual teams to do it. The park tool can also re-peen bike chain.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Same here - I think we had 16 on our 4 robots (2 tethered machines) last year and no problems of any kind.

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I've taken to avoiding any open/adjustable style chain break tools. We bought something similar to this a few seasons ago and it worked great for #35.

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Ah, I took "similar to" to mean similar function and not similar form.

It is, but that's the one we have and I don't have experience with any other type. Do you have a recommendation? I linked both because it was in stock at the third link. I probably could have excluded the second link.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

This tool similar to the Dark Soul is what we use for #35 chain. The real benefit of these two is the ability to lay the chain in the pegs for easy alignment. The Park tool is useful for its versatility, but having used both styles, the DS and one I linked above cause significantly less frustration.

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Having used that one almost exclusively for years, this. So much this. If I could never see one of those again, I would be very happy about it.

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Not really. We use #35 really infrequently. Last time we used it was 2010 and I'm pretty sure we just used a dremel to cut the chain. The two linked above look pretty decent though.

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For chain tools I would highly recommend the one you linked for #35 and the Dark Soul for #25 having used both in addition to a few others that quickly became pieces of junk after a few uses.

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What I think would be nice is a west coast drive variant of the vexpro 2 cim ball shifter.

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Use the 3 CIM ballshifter and stop after installing 2 CIMs ;)

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I wish Vex would release a better WCD mount for the 3 Cim ballshifter. The heads of the tiny 8-32 screws always get destroyed by the chain and become impossible to tighten.

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Which heads are you referring to?

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The heads of the button head 8-32 screws that attach the wcd plate to the versablock. http://www.vexrobotics.com/media/cat...-4247-rev2.jpg

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Ohhh... I never conceived of using those to mount, and instead was thinking of using those 1/4-20s.

I guess countersinking those holes would help.

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It would be great if they integrated the versablock slot into the plate like this custom gearbox

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I could do that but if I know that I only need 2 cims then why not use a more compact solution (Depending on design needs). I just think the option could be nice.

Yes! I am in full agreement. We have hex broaches and I still hate hex. The quality of the bearings is questionable, and the tolerances are sloppy. I much prefer using 1/2" ground keyed shafting. Everything just works and runs a lot more true. I have been asking Vex for 1/2" keyed bore for years.

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Why aren't you using Thunderhex? It's a no brainer.

Or turn down the ends of your existing hex instead of using hex bearings.

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If VEX would change their gearbox and transmission output shafts to Thunderhex I would be sooo happy.

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Thunderhex is out of stock, and hex products in general have a nasty habit of going out of stock during build season.

Not every team has a lathe (or a lathe they trust to make precision cuts).

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This is my biggest "want" for FRC suppliers this season, right here. I don't care much about new products. I want FRC suppliers to keep the products they list on their websites in stock for longer than the first few hours of build season, and ship them in a timely manner.

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That's more difficult than people think.

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West Coast Products has then in stock for 18" and backordered for 3'. I'm not sure what shipping would be like though.

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I'd love a 3.25" Vex Traction Wheel with the adaptable widths. Would be super useful. http://www.vexrobotics.com/traction-wheels.html

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As suppliers we want this too. The big issue comes from the fact that each year the game changes and with it comes changes in demand for items. It is almost impossible to predict what item will be popular. To add to the issue, nobody wants inventory at the end of the season because after April any inventory will most likely not sell again until the next year. That inventory is "money sitting on a shelf." If funds are wrapped up, that is less money we can spend on other things like R&D, tooling for new products, travel to support events, etc. While not good for the teams, from a straight business case it is better to sell out than overshoot.

All that being said, FIRST suppliers ( and I know first hand this is true for REV, AndyMark, & vex, and I presume others) will do whatever we can during the season to get product to teams that need it. The example I can give is last year when REV extrusion and linear motion parts went out of stock in the first week of the season we produced and sent more than 1000 pieces of it via air freight from our manufacturer to get it in stock. Air freight rates at the time were right around $6/kg. Quite a bit of money was spent on shipping, to the point where we basically sold our extrusion at zero margin (or a bit of a loss depending on what is amortized into its cost). Did we have to do this, no. Would we do it again, yes. Most of the team centric suppliers are mentors on teams and we all know what it is like during build season. Every effort is made to provide you all with the parts you want, when you want.

It is a really hard problem, that is worse for small suppliers but we will keep trying to improve and always appreciate your support.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Therobotspace.com has both 18" and 3' Thunderhex in stock. I just picked up some yesterday, plus some other VexPro parts.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Case in point - 3946 in 2015. For our first three years, we did not purchase any shaft stock online. For 2012 and 2013, we had no need to drive any long shafts larger than 3/16", and those were for feeding small game pieces. 2014, we did have some keyways cut in some rolled steel by NASA for our pickups; we had one of the common "U-bar with rollers" pickups. For 2015, we ordered 12 feet of hex shaft for our two elevators; we decided to stabilize tote roll by using two chains, and long shafts top and bottom was the easiest way to get there. As it took us over a week to determine the best solution for low-mid resource teams, I was a but surprised that AM had it in stock. I would guess that in January 2015, there were orders for more hex stock than there had been in the preceding twenty-four months. Any company which keeps 24 months of demand in stock isn't going to be able to make interest payments, much less payroll or rent. I would also guess about the same percentages on holonomic wheels, as 2015 was the first year you knew you wouldn't get into a pushing match since 2001 -- well before (as I understand it) you could order COTS holonomic wheels at an FRC-affordable price, and when the rules didn't allow nearly as much COTS stuff, in any case.

This whole issue of one-time demand is why I love the international game piece option - it will increase the number of pre-sales of the game piece, making it more likely that someone will restock (and perhaps increase stock over normal levels) before build season. It would be even better if it were available to US teams.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Disclaimer: Off the OP's original topic...

As Greg stated it is often not in the best interest for companies to keep an inventory year round.
This being known, I recommend teams to buy some commonly used parts, materials, etc prior to the season starting. Sure you don't know what the game will have in store, but you will have a starting point. If you guessed wrong or over bought of something particular, it will most likely be usable in the following game or R&D effort by the team. The caution to this is to not try and build up an inventory of everything, and definitely not in one year. We have strategically phased into using hex shaft, box tubing, and others over the past few seasons. This approach was taken to use up the existing "inventory" of material and slowly build up the new "inventory" and design/fabrication practices.

TL;DR For a team, unused inventory is still good for future uses. For companies, unsold inventory is an added cost and potentially causes operational restrictions.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

We do try to stock up as best as possible, but are faced with budgetary limits that prevent us from having everything we want. Some items we simply have to risk build season wait times. It also doesn't help that some vendors don't restock certain items until the December/January time frame. Based on that, we often chose to stock up on inventory we know we can replenish if we need a higher than expected quantity. If we run out of hex items in the middle of build, we may be backed into a corner. If we run out of round shaft, we know we can order them from anywhere.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Agreed on the budgetary constraints. We don't have enough money to throw it around on whatever we see, but at the same, we are not frugal. I had a conversation at champs a few years back (forget who it was with), but they said something that really stuck with me; paraphrase:
We have not followed this 100%, but have adopted a very similar process. Usually place orders two to three times a week (most end up being small $$$ orders) to help mitigate the risk of parts being out of stock when we "finalize" a design.

Last year I started a reserve, or rainy day fund equivalent, for certain mechanical parts to include hex shaft, certain fasteners, etc. The items I withheld were not accounted for on any team "inventory". My reserve consisted of two 3' 1/2" hex shafts, a handful of 1/2" bearings, two boxes of common rivet sizes, and a variety of hubs. Definitely not enough to build an entire robot with, but a good amount of things to use in an emergency (weekend repairs, out of stock, etc). This is something you have to build up to, much like reserve funding that an organization may or may not have.

I understand and agree with your points, but wanted to share how we have implemented mitigation strategies.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

We've chosen to stock up on motor controllers, thunder hex, bearings, and square tubing, since we know we will use all of those things. We will purchase gear boxes as soon as we know the game, and the rest when we work out the details, if anything is still available by then; otherwise, we will compromise or make it ourselves.

I have no beef with the suppliers over things running out. They all do a better job of serving their customers than almost any businesses I've ever worked with. The companies we purchase this stuff from love high school robotics, and they go way beyond to not only try to get us what we need, but to develop new and better products very quickly. FRC has gotten so much more advanced, so quickly, and I think it's awesome. That's why I'm excited to see the new stuff soon!

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

I didn't really take Thunderhex seriously last year because every time I checked, the bearings were out of stock. I'm not a fan of proprietary sized bearings because they are only available from a single supplier. I usually order from FRC suppliers because they tend to be cheaper, but in a pinch, I like being able to get bearings from a local industrial supplier.

But I don't see what the obsession with hex is all about. What's wrong with a nice round keyed shaft?

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

You don't have to deal with cutting keys, putting keys into the keyway, or worry about the key falling out. With hex you put it in the bearing and you're done.

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It wouldn't be a new product per say but I'd love to see vexpro start carrying the navx board. For canadian teams it's a lot cheap ordering from vex due to shipping and the currency exchange.

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On the topic of replacements for banebots wheels. At Championships, AndyMark was demoing some prototypes for a new line of HiGrip wheels that had different tread materials. They don't match perfectly to banebots(smooth tread, solid core etc.) however they may be a good replacement in many situations without going out of stock quite as quickly.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Or buy the 3rd stage for the 2 CIM ball shifter and use longer hex standoffs and screws.

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While we're discussing hex shaft and the like, one product I really would like to see from FRC suppliers are clamping hubs. They're a very simple solution to most of the problems of positioning things on shafts, and allow you to use simple round shaft, to boot.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Always interested in more wheels, can't wait to see what Andy has here.

I agree. Clamping hubs would especially be beneficial for rapid prototyping. For a good deal of FRC applications a single piece shaft collar style clamp would be adequate in terms of torque.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Like these: 9793t13, 5878t22, 9677T21 ?

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Yes, but made by Vex and sold under the Versa name for 25% the price McMaster hast them for (ideally)!

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If they are the same wheels that they had at IRI, they are pretty neat. There are two new compounds, a "one match" and "one event" wheel. Unfortunately, I forgot the exact durometers. The "one match" wheel was very soft and grippy so I would imagine it would be great for non-drive uses.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

I'm eager to see these unveiled!

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The obsession with hex is because round keyed stock is completely inferior in every way (except perhaps availability).

Strength (massive stress risers)
Ease of use...no keys to lose during installation. No struggling to get the key in/out of the keyway on either mating part. No need to cut keys.
Torque transmission (which goes into strength)
The list goes on and on.

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It's true! It's all true! I was against hex for a while but I have to say, I've been converted.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

I heard the same thing at Worlds when I got to talk to them. I believe it was 30 and 45 durometers, but don't quote me on that.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

What I would love to see is an output for the versa planetary gearbox that is a 1/2" hex clamp. That way tears can make the output shaft as long as they want. Ideal for intakes and power rollers.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

This is why vex came out with the hex shaft coupler. http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/ha.../217-4008.html

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Well outside of FRC and just so students who might be mechanical engineers one day know, round shaft has its perks.

1. Round shaft is available in any material that can be put on a lathe

2. Round shaft, depending on how it's machined, will hold tighter tolerances than hex shaft which can be unbelievably important in various real world applications

3. Machining internal features for round shaft is (depending on the tolerances required) easier, faster, more precise, and cheaper than for hex

Round shaft is not "completely inferior in every way" to hex. Hex shaft is easier to use and commonly meets the needs of most FRC applications but when your're in the real world there are times when you may need something else.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

We're not in the real world. This discussion is clearly about FRC and there really can be no debate that for FRC hex is a superior product.

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

In the "real world", could you also just clamp the shaft instead?

Re: New Products for 2016: Speculation, Wants
 

Looks real to me.

I would argue that we are in the real world and that our application has parameters that support the common use of 7075 anodized hex shaft. I believe the best practice not to make a blanket statement about material usage and instead to state it's usefulness in terms of our application.

Saying round shaft is always inferior isn't true. Even in FRC there are times when we may be better served with round shaft. I would never tell my students to always use hex or round shaft or aluminum or steel. I train them to pick the best thing for that application. If we have sponsor that will buy half a robots worth of hardware from mcmaster and machine shop that doesn't have hex broaches then round shaft might be a better choice that time around.

Oh and...

4. round shaft couplings and collars are easier to produce (again depending on required tolerances/features)