Most matches for a robot?
 

Our 2014 robot, Becca, finally retired after the 2015 Madtown Throwback with 151 matches. 971's robot Mammoth and 254's Barrage probably had about 20 less matches because they either were in fewer regionals or off season events.

Robots in district regions such as Michigan and MAR that go to IRI may get in 120 matches. Off season events might add more. Are there are robots that have gotten up to 150 or more?

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

125 in 2014 is up there, but I don't have an exact number.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Our (125) 2014 bot was probably close. I think counting the crap ton of replays we had to do we had hit 100 by DCMP, I stopped counting there. I know by IRI I was curious if the bot was just going to fall apart. And I skipped out on most of our off seasons because I was sick of events. TBA has us at 135 but is missing at least the Week 0 event (I think there were 10 matches here), 4 replays from Groton, 3 from RI, 1 from NEU, and River Rage.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

1640's 2015 robot has 91 matches listed on TBA, but TBA is missing it competing in Ramp Riot, Duel on the Delaware, and MidKnight Mayhem. They might have competed elsewhere, as well. Definitely north of 120 matches.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

I decided to count it up for 1058 this year, and we are at 120 matches despite only making it to finals twice all year. We could've gone to two more offseasons but decided not to for outreach events instead.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

125's 2014 robot is a very good candidate.

I'm estimating 1519's 2015 robot, King Tote-em-Can-um had about 145 matches at events this year, between Week 0, 3 Districts, DCMP and CMP, and then 4 off-season events. I'm guessing this was probably our team's "record." We used to go to more off-season events, but have never been to 5 competition season events plus Week 0 before.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

1477 had 122 in 2013 with 4 regionals, advancing up to einstein, then 3 offseason events.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Wow. That's substantial.
Have you ever considered building more than one robot, perhaps in a way that they could fit in each other and still come within the size/weight limitations, to alleviate wear and maximize match strategy?

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

2014 had to be 910's season with the most matches.

Three districts, one regional, MSC, the World Championship, MARC, and IRI are listed on The Blue Alliance and put us at 122 matches.

I can't remember if we did any other off season events that season. I think we may have gone to at least one more.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

TBA has 195 down for 109 matches in 2014.

However, this doesn't include matches from Suffield Shakedown, Where is Wolcott, Bash at the Beach (and i may be forgetting another...). The addition of these (and any replays) would probably put that robot close to 150 as well.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Pretty sure this was a great year for robot longevity, given the lack of robot on robot action. Now 150 matches in a year like 2014, 2013 etc...that really would be quite a feat:D

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

I feel like if you're considering week 0 and offseason events, then practice matches should be considered too. For some teams, that could add around 20 extra matches a year if not more.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

TBA has 341's 2012 robot down for 100 matches between all season events (2 districts, 1 regional, 1 DCMP, CMP), but that robot also competed in 3 off season events (Brunswick Eruption, Duel on the Delaware, and Ramp Riot), as well as many demonstrations, so it has at the very least 130 matches played.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Killer Bees 33 are down for 99 matches in TBA (if I counted right) and that doesn't include Kettering Kickoff or Bloomfield Girls this fall.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

1241 2014 is probably up there, 4 regionals + champs + 2 off seasons

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

This is the real question for this thread, IMHO. What is the robot longevity during these 120 plus match marathons for a robot designed to play 2:10 short (often agressive/defensive) minutes at a time.

How many of these great teams took their "originally designed/fabricated structures" from stop build; to first match to test the length of the season (off-season events)..?

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

It'd also be really interesting to see how the performance of some robots changed as they got more and more beaten up. In my team's experience, There's sometimes a noticeable change by the time off-seasons come around. (I'm just glad there's not much video of MARC 2014.) Our longest season was this year, at ~79 matches. Only midwest (excluding Michigan) team I can find that had more was 2826, with 84. (Perhaps 1730 had more, depending on what offseasons they went to) I could be off a little bit, as I don't quite remember how many qualification matches there were at R2OC this year.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

I believe I have told this one before on CD (and I have bored many in person), but I think it is a good story relative to this thread.

In 2007, for 33, we designed super light due to all the structure. Estimated the cycle count for the arm as about 10 cycles per match time 20 matches per event times 5 events (3 regionals, Worlds, and IRI) or about 1,000 cycles. For aluminum, this is designing just a bit past yield, but not too terrible much. Operation wise, this would be 2 minutes x 100 matches or about 3-4 hours of match play (180-240 minutes). We built a practice bot with similar structure. This bot self-destructed after about 10 hours of practice. It was structural fatigue of some of the main arm elements. Absolutely catastrophic.
Because of this, we made some fix-it parts during one of the fix it windows in case such a failure occurred at Worlds.
End of the day, the robot made it all the way through regular season*, IRI, Kettering Kick-off and then was on display at the YES expo doing match after match until it too self destructed.

When we tallied it up, (TBA shows 68 matches), but the robot likely saw close to those 100 matches, or about 3.5 hours of match play. Plus a few hours of practice/test/tune cycling plus about 1/2 day of playing with at YES expo (probably another 3 hours of operation/cycling). IE it also failed at about 10 hours of operation.

Once switching to districts, the match count just about doubles, and the potential for practice hours can be quite high with unbag time. Basically, you can't play with the fatigue limits nearly as much as you "yusta-could".



*We did fatigue one piece a couple times during season where the claw connected with the wrist. the issue with that piece was it had a lot of welding which lost the temper of the Aluminum, and it would yield when the arm would occasionally whack itself on the ground. We had a failure right before alliance selection at Detroit that year, and it had to be replaced.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

The degeneration is real. At New England District Championships in 2014, 195 was performing at its peak during quals. Once elims came around (somewhere around match 80-85 of the season), anything that could've gone wrong on the robot, did go wrong. Some of the problems still weren't solved by the end of Worlds. A lot of the moving parts were completely replaced for off-season, but the robot never performed the same again.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

This is a very important part of scouting, especially at events like a District Championship or Worlds. A robot could have done great all season long, but halfway through a third or fourth competition, the continuous wear and tear shows. I have noticed this multiple times in the past two years, even more so with Aerial Assist.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

We ran 140 matches this year.

(Suffield,Waterbury,RI,Hartford,NEDCMP,Galileo,CT Champs, BattlecryWPI, WIWI, Bash at the Beach)
plus we run it hard on asphalt for hours at a time at summer and fall events (6 events) plus a bunch of short demos.

This year wear and tear wise we had started having issues at NEDCMP quals (match 70 or so) until we discovered and fixed a bent piece that aligned the totes in the stack -small issue with a big effect - otherwise the wear and tear was nothing compared to 2014 after 110 matches.

A measure of difference between years, this year we still have the original KOP wheels on from the beginning - in 2014 we needed to change them out every competition - with essentially same(or equivalent) drive-train.

Many teams have practice robots - does anyone have a conscious plan of a fleet leader - having their practice robot run more matches(simulated) than the gamer to ferret out wear and tear issues?

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Or build test platforms for subsystems that seem to be more prone to wear/tear than others.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

We ran 140 matches this year.

(Suffield,Waterbury,RI,Hartford,NEDCMP,Galileo,CT Champs, BattlecryWPI, WIWI, Bash at the Beach)
plus we run it hard on asphalt for hours at a time at summer and fall events (6 events) plus a bunch of short demos.

This year wear and tear wise we had started having issues at NEDCMP quals (match 70 or so) until we discovered and fixed a bent piece that aligned the totes in the stack -small issue with a big effect - otherwise the wear and tear was nothing compared to 2014 after 110 matches.

A measure of difference between years, this year we still have the original KOP wheels on from the beginning - in 2014 we needed to change them out every competition - with essentially same(or equivalent) drive-train.

Many teams have practice robots - does anyone have a conscious plan of a fleet leader - having their practice robot run more matches(simulated) than the gamer to ferret out wear and tear issues?

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Yes we do this, I think most teams with practice bots do this. its great to get this info while practicing. Prior to the 2015 San Diego regional, we had about 200 practice matches over 2 weeks. We almost always use the match timer to keep the batteries in good condition. We caught an issue with our RC carriage wearing out its bearing mounts and were able to implement a solution for our comp bot. It also gave use info on the life cycle of our intake wheels, and the stacker disk brake.

I think our comp bot had about 90 matches this year for comparison.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

If this is about a robot - it should not count practice robot matches.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Practice matches need to be considered too, actually. See "fatigue life"--fatigue doesn't care if the cycles the material has gone through are in quals, elims, shop testing, or practice matches. What it cares about is, "I've gone through X,000 cycles, I'm about to *OUCH!* break." (Or has gone through some extra stress, but that's another topic.)

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Also, with practice matches, robots are often pushed even harder than they would be in, for example, a qualification match. Teams want to see just how much their bot can handle and if certain strategies (especially "risk" strategies) have potential in an actual match or if the robot/driver skill does not present that strategy as a viable option.

Of course in these matches a team isn't going to push their robot to a breaking point. But, as an example, oftentimes this year a robot would carry more totes at one time to find an optimal cycle time strategy.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

469 does the same; I definitely concur/encourage teams who have a practice bot to practice with the match timer set in the driver station application. In 2012, we caught the screw shearing problem in the Supershifters early in the season. We had a fix practiced and in place, but the competition bot shifters never failed until the offseason. Nearly every year, we knew where the "problem" areas of the robot were and what parts to make many spares of/practice fixing.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

For 234, or matches are as followed for 2015:

Week 1- 12 quals and 2 elims
Week 3- 12 quals and 7 elims
Week 4- 12 quals and 8 elims
Week 6- 14 quals and 7 elims
Archimedes- 10 quals and 5 elims
CORI- 4 quals and 7 elims
IRI- 9 quals
Indy RAGE- at least 5 quals and 7 elims (We were finalists and I'm not sure how many qualification matches were at that event)
CAGE Match- 7 quals and 7 elims

Total: 135 matches +- 3 (Not sure 100% on Indy RAGE)

The wear and tear was 100% noticeable. By the time we made it to Archimedes, it was probably at it's prime. Started to degrade as we went into IRI for sure. The robot basically fell apart as we went into Indy RAGE. Our arms attached using bolts in order to fit into transport configuration. A hole in which a bolt goes through to attach the arms got so loose that the arm would flex so match that after a certain height, the stack would just fall over and out. Unfortunately, that resulted in some bad results at Indy Rage, but we were able to fix the robot for CAGE Match. That's just one example of how intense the wear on a robot is after that many matches.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

We could tell the wear and tear was getting to that robot in Archimedes - in fact, we could HEAR it. It seemed like a few of your quals matches were suffering because of it.

According to TBA, 118 played in 122 matches by the end of TRR - not sure if they have done any other events in the preseason this fall.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

There is kind of a 'slippery slope' from just official matches, to also off-season events, to also practice matches at official events, to also practice time. Honestly though, I have no good estimate for how many practice matches we played and how much practice time was on our 'competition' robot vs our 'practice' robot.

This was a great (boring?) season for our team in the pits... Early on we had to add/adjust a few things to tighten our elevator belts, but once tensioned at UMass Dartmouth correctly they were good. After that it was really just the additional features we added.

It sounds like you remember our 2008 season? Wear was hardly a concern for our robot(s) that year, though...

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Man, how many bumpers and bumper structures did Speed Racer destroy throughout the year? ;)

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

I mean the Rack and Pinion lift was ALWAYS loud but it was really bad when you could hear it from high up in the stands in a big stadium... haha. Did 135 have much wear? From watching Archimedes, it didn't seem like much. Either that or you guys adapted to it well.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

No, we didn't get much wear and tear, thanks to our AWESOME build team. They built one of the most robust robots we have ever fielded.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Touche; I'd forgotten about Speed Racer's front bumper! The front frame backing the pool noodle bumper was probably half the frame's weight when we finished reinforcing it (after it broke repeatedly)... :yikes:

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

I should mention that Becca's frame was broken in the finals of the very first regional at Inland Empire (and lost a few plastic arms along the way starting at Chezy Champs).

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Yes, this is about a single robot and its wear and tear. Still looking to see if anyone has more than 151.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

There's no official way to count practice matches or testing--only recorded "official" matches are a useful common standard.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Then IRI and other offseason events shouldn't be considered since they are not "official" events.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

The Blue Alliance seems to think they are legit enough to record and put alongside the rest of your season.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

But if we are trying to determine "Which robot played the most matches?", we're really determining "Which robot happened to play at offseason events that happened to be recorded?". I don't think a match at MARC is more tough on a robot than a match at R2OC. Nor do I think an average offseason qualification match is tougher on a robot than a practice match at an average regional.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume The Blue Alliance puts up every event they get information from. I don't believe they only put the events they feel are 'legit' or 'offical' events on their site.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

My comment was assuming practice matches on practice robot - not same as comp robot - practice matches on comp post season could be considered - in any event like all scouting to each their own, to judge of what a valuable metric is.

It may be interesting if others shared how many matches it took to find wear out modes? After early failure modes identified.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Practice matches on the practice robot, right, those shouldn't count.

But the 3-6 practice matches per official event that teams get--with their competition robot--probably should be counted, if there is any way to determine those (and whether the robot showed up, or went in via filler line). Probably the easiest way is to add 3 matches per event that has practice matches (or whatever the proper number is for districts/CMP)--anything more doesn't count, anything less we'll assume you spent on the practice field or testing in the pit.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Certainly, with practice matches at competitions considered, we passed 150 - but I am sure others go on further too.

But what can we learn from machines going 120+ matches - is there a wear out plateau - if you run x number matches then you can be fairly confident of reliability?

Or are we really still in prototype mode... still learning embryonic failure modes? even after 120+ matches...

I think in the past couple of years of running a least 100 matches that we uncovered a great proportion of issues, but cannot quantify that very well.

And cannot yet say if we found all issues or still learning.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

120 matches x 150 minutes per match = 5 hours of driving time
It doesn't seem like that's enough testing to get all the bugs out.

It's somewhat odd to think that one solid day of driving practice at home before bagging would be equal to an entire season of competition matches.
Without the shoving, pushing, yelling, screaming, and contention for game piece stresses that real competition brings.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Our offseason match is on Blue Alliance yet it doesn't show how many games we played or our performance at all. Not everything makes it to TBA either. Source

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

If I count right, 1640 played 129 matches this year.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

The 129 includes IRI, Duel on the Delaware, Midknight Mayhem and Ramp Riot for 1640. This does not count for endless drivers practice or pre quals practice matches. Just to be fair.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Here's a useful definition of "official": matches conducted in either a FIRST or offseason competition in which the outcome counted toward either qualifications or elimination standings. That should eliminate practice matches (which I think we should assume are roughly equal for all robots) and other testing which is simply impossible to verify differences among teams. Not interested in differences among venues either as that is highly subjective. (Becca suffered a broken frame and two in-match fuse blow outs not to mention broken arms, etc.)

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

See my definition below. As for match intensity, what we encountered at Chezy Champs and Madtown was just as intense as any of our regionals.

I'm just interested in the total matches played for comparison. Is there a problem in asking this question?:cool:

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Not at all. I think it's a great question to ask. I'm just pointing out that the most accurate data (only offical districts, regionals and championships) misses a lot of matches. Including offseason events on TBA (which we agree should count) introduces a significant amount bias as only a minority of offseason events are recorded. I'm not sure we'd be able to get a decent approximation of most matches a robot has played (and that's not even considering the practice match debate!).

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

5 years ago where our team participated in one regional for a total of 10 matches, at the BAE systems regional in the Verizon center. This past season, thanks in part to the District Model, our team participated in a total of 11 events, including offseasons.

Week Zero - 6
North Shore - 18
UNH -14
NEDCMP-WPI - 14
Tesla - 15
BattleCry - 12
River Rage - 14
Summer Heat -14
Mainely Spirit- 13
Mayhem in Merrimack - 14
Battle Of the Bay - 14

Grand Total - 150

This increased exposure for students owes great thanks to all of the teams throughout New England ,NEFirst and all of the volunteers who take the time and effort to put these events on. Go First!

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Wow, that looks like a fun off-season!

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

New England simply can't be beaten for having a large amount of great offseasons.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

TBA seems to catch all of the events on the West Coast. But if someone has other off season events, those should count too. 319 just posted that they had 150 on this year's bot.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

Team #1768 played about 75 matches total during the 2015 season. 60 during the official season and about 15 at 1 off season event.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

This year's robot for us served in a LOT of matches, I'm not sure of the exact count, but there were many many matches that were played.

Gull Lake District
Livonia District
Bedford District
Michigan State Championship
World's
IRI
MARC offseason event
Kettering offseason event
Bloomfield Girls offseason event

I believe it was about 145 matches.

Re: Most matches for a robot?
 

After 3 district competitions and 4 offseason events, the 461 bot went through about 92 matches not including practice matches.