Building a robotics lab
 

We are building a lab for our new FRC team, and we need to give the architect cut sheets and measurements of the tools we will be putting in there. So far we have been looking at threads here and have talked to some local teams (4159, 254, and 2144), so we know the kinds of machines/tools we need but haven't looked at specific models yet. If anyone has cut sheets of these machines or recommendations, it would be super helpful.

The machines we're currently looking at getting are:

• a drill press
• horizontal and vertical band saw
• CNC lathe
• CNC Mill (we've already got one)
• laser cutter (we're looking at the epilog mini 24)

Recommendations for machines/tools not on this list would also be very helpful.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

CNC router before a CNC lathe or 2nd CNC mill.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

Can you explain the difference? I thought a cnc router was just a mill for softer/easier to cut materials.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

A CNC router is typically optimized for cutting sheets of material, and often has a larger space in that regard (for example, the ShopBot at the school 2667 works out of cuts 4'x8'x6" of material). They really are very useful, and high quality ones can cut through aluminum in addition to wood, plastics, or foam. They're really quite nice, and often have different use cases than a CNC mill.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

CNC router > CNC Mill > CNC Lathe

CNC router is the work-horse of 1678, followed by our manual mills, followed by our CNC 2 Axis Bridgeport, followed by our manual lathes. Then bandsaw, drill press, and chop saw.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

Since most FRC work is lighter duty cuts, it's a substantially larger work area which is easier to fixture sheet to. This lets you nest many gussets/plates into a single run easily.

Also, it's nice to take advantage of their long travel and build a long vice-style fixture for holding tubing so it can be machined quickly.

A good router can be had for $5k (if good discount), and $15k will get you something pretty solid for FRC.

You're going to have an incredibly tough time getting the same bang for your buck out of a CNC mill in that price range.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

+1
Our ShopBot has been a tremendous help...for prototyping and especially when iterating components. In 2013 we probably made a dozen versions of our shooter plates.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

I've been working on a home-made one, as a personal side project.

http://solsylva.com/cnc/25x25.shtml

Nothing to do with FRC, it started before I got involved with FRC, and mine was aimed at cutting wood and was never intended to be used for aluminum. The tolerances are probably nowhere near good enough for detailed robotics work.

Still, if I ever get it done, I wonder if my team would find it handy...

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

A manual lathe is very often more useful than a CNC lathe in FRC. Most FRC turning operations are just cutting stock to length.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

I would personally suggest adding a CNC plasma cutter to your list. Great for sheet metal parts like gussets and belly pans.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

Plasma cutters are pretty low tolerance and are generally for steel. I would probably buy a cnc router and a manual lathe then cnc mill. Those are my go to machines in the shop.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

A good CNC router is far better than a CNC plasma cutter. A CNC router has miles better accuracy and precision. Aluminium is just not a great material to plasma cut, it has a strong tendency to warp due to its thermal characteristics.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

Adam, do you have any picture of your setup? I'm working on a new clamping setup for ours and I'm looking for ideas.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

Those of you who have purchased a CNC router, can you recommend your supplier or point of contact at the company. Thanks.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

What kind of material should the router be able to cut? The ones I see mostly do woods and plastics and maybe aluminum.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

There are a few threads with the very same question.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=137802
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=128941
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=123936

We have a router on order. We asked 1678 what they had and searched the threads to see if other teams liked it. I don't want to comment my thoughts cause we have not received it yet. I will say being local to our vendor is very nice, they seem keen on helping us out and was the primary reason for our choice.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

We have a Zenbot 24x48, it's alright. For about $2500 you can get it fully operational, with a controller, Mach3, etc. You will need to get a CAM package as well, HSMworks is free and what we have been using. We just got a licence for CAMmaster that I'm going to start playing with (We asked them very nicely).

For an inexpensive solution I'd look at the X-carve. It probably won't handle any think cuts in aluminum out of the box but will probably get the job done for a fraction of the price of most routers. There have been several mods to make it cut better, like changing the spindle to the same router we use on the zenbot. I know a few teams have bought one this off-season hopefully they will chime in as they start cutting. The X-carve has a free CAM/controller software suite as well that may be some what limited but is also probably easier to use. Seeing as we get most of our competition parts made by our sponsors laser cutter this definitely were I would have started had it been available a few years ago.

These options won't do full sheets of material or anything but they are smaller and cheaper which will better fit some shops and budgets.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

865 bought a XZero CNC

I've also heard pretty good things about "6040" CNC routers that a number of sellers offer on ebay. For 1200$ you can get something with a proper VFD spindle, ballscrew and beefy construction. The trade off is reliability and size.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

I would recommend VeloxCNC, they have a wide selection of bed sizes and are well built for a reasonable cost(10% educational discount too!). It's also easy to knock the cost down if you are willing to make your own table surface, stand to keep it off the floor and what not. Tell them 1678 sent you.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

Last year we purchased a Camaster Stinger 2 after visiting another local team who has one.

There are a lot of great machines out there but we found that with the Camaster, you get a lot more machine and add-ons for your money.

We are extremely happy with the product and ease of use.

http://www.camaster.com/product/

Please feel free to PM me with any questions about the products or the process.

I have reserached this topic quite a bit before purchasing.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

How about fume extraction (laser cutter) and compressed air? Those would be best to plan for now. A compressor can be very loud and would need to be located such that the noise does not violate OSHA regulations.

I would not get a plasma. It is too dangerous in a crowded shop environment and you need a downdraft table with ample fume extraction, filtration, and ventilation.

I agree with the CNC router. I would choose this over a second CNC mill. What mill do you currently have? I would get some vises, a vacuum table, and waste board. Learn how to use the Work Coordinate System and layout multiple components/parts to do in one routine. A router that accommodates 4' x 4' sheet material would probably work out best as many local suppliers sell pre-cut material in this size.

The eBay CNC router designs can be hit or miss. The 6040 linked earlier does not look adequate for machining aluminum based on the gantry design (very small distance between the bearing blocks on the linear guide. Beware of other routers with a floating guide shaft (example) as they are not rigid at all and the gantry can be deflected with the press of a hand.

Depending on the funds you have, a manual lathe or CNC lathe really makes no difference. Conversational programming a CNC lathe like the Tormach 15L Slant-PRO with Path Pilot will be faster, especially if using a turret tool changer or gang tool setup. What lathes were you considering?

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

3844 has been using a 4 X 8 Shopbot PRT Alpha CNC Router for prototyping for several years. ( plywood only)

We have a sponsor that does all of our sheet metal on a laser CNC

If we wanted to setup aluminum machining on the Shopbot, how would we handle the coolant to the bit?

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

Use an O-flute mill and spray mist coolant.
Flood coolant is not really an option with most bridge/router CNC setups.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

Actually, ShopBot (The company) uses vortex tube coolers when they cut parts for us: http://www.exair.com/en-US/Primary%2...20Systems.aspx

They work really well with a mag mount base on the ShopBot tools.

This is coming from a team that has been sponsored by ShopBot Tools for a couple years. We're huge fans.

EDIT: Link to one of these on Zoro: http://www.zoro.com/exair-cold-gun-1...gc lsrc=aw.ds

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

There's some issues I can see with this - all of them non-issues for skilled operators with a proper setup.

1. Noise both from the compressor and this gear.
2. Nozzle position - it has to be aimed correctly because you are cooling air and air is not as good a thermal conductor as say water.

So while I am all for this if you do it right, and it certainly removes the risk of spraying mist everywhere, it's also hard to see you didn't put the air where you wanted it.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

It's true. It's also worth pointing out that with those nozzles you still need to cool the bit with a proper speed and feed setting for getting chips of a proper size. I can't speak from personal experience but the software package that comes up over and over for calculating speeds/feeds is this one (G-Wizard): http://www.cnccookbook.com/

Would definitely include that in your CAM software stack.

Re: Building a robotics lab
 

We use coolant mist, but one trick we have come up with is to put the compressor outside.

It drastically helps reduce noise and it helps cool the air. (Considering build season in North Jersey is typically pretty darn cold.)

Note: You may want to add an inline filter as this seems to increase the amount of moisture running through the lines.