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-   -   X-Carve as a budget CNC? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139566)

ehochstein 23-11-2015 14:08
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkelleyrtp (Post 1507394)
Fantastic, thanks for sharing, this is the type of information I was looking for. Did you know that xcarve runs GRBL firmware? This means you can import into files into a software known as chilipepper. It looks like you can import dxf and gcode files. Other software exists to convert solid works parts into gcode but dxf can work just fine. Hopefully this helps and you could share the result.
Bookmarked. I may have an opportunity to go run this tonight, I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks!

cbale2000 23-11-2015 14:49
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehochstein (Post 1507391)
I purchased a fully loaded X-Carve a few months ago and had a chance to play with it quite a bit. The assembly instructions are great - everything is really easy to put together. The only time I deviated from the assembly instructions is when installing the belting, I'm using a different method to keep the belt in place than they recommended. I find that the recommendation they gave causes a lot of slip in the belt, especially when 'carving'...
Two questions:
  1. Could you explain more about how you modified the belt system? Possibly include pictures?
  2. In your opinion could an X-Carve be used to build "mission-critical" parts for FRC robots?
    I'm considering getting one of these to speed up fabrication of our drive system, but the drive modules are expensive to make (or rather, to have to make more than once if they get screwed up) and require somewhat high tolerances (but within what the X-Carve advertises to have).
    Currently we make these parts on an (older) large Bridgeport 2-axis CNC mill, but between the setup, pre-cutting, and programming it takes an operator about 3 hours a day for the better part of a week to complete.

AdamHeard 23-11-2015 14:51
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbale2000 (Post 1507410)
Two questions:
  1. Could you explain more about how you modified the belt system? Possibly include pictures?
  2. In your opinion could an X-Carve be used to build "mission-critical" parts for FRC robots?
    I'm considering getting one of these to speed up fabrication of our drive system, but the drive modules are expensive to make (or rather, to have to make more than once if they get screwed up) and require somewhat high tolerances (but within what the X-Carve advertises to have).
    Currently we make these parts on an (older) large Bridgeport 2-axis CNC mill, but between the setup, pre-cutting, and programming it takes an operator about 3 hours a day for the better part of a week to complete.
Having a 3 axis CNC knee mill in our shop as well as a metal router an order of magnitude more rigid/powerful than the X-carve I would say there is no way it will compete with the knee mill other than fixturing seems easier on a router (assuming you're willing to screw down material into the mdf).

cbale2000 23-11-2015 15:10
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1507411)
Having a 3 axis CNC knee mill in our shop as well as a metal router an order of magnitude more rigid/powerful than the X-carve I would say there is no way it will compete with the knee mill other than fixturing seems easier on a router (assuming you're willing to screw down material into the mdf).
Fixturing is the main issue honestly, that and programming. Currently we have to cut our material to size on a bandsaw, then clean up the edges on the mill, then use 2 clamps + supports to position the material. After we're done with that we have to manually program each step, and babysit it the entire time it runs (as each new step requires intervention). I would like to be able to just attach a sheet of material directly to a workspace, import the cut path from the CAD model, and just let it run.

AdamHeard 23-11-2015 15:28
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbale2000 (Post 1507415)
Fixturing is the main issue honestly, that and programming. Currently we have to cut our material to size on a bandsaw, then clean up the edges on the mill, then use 2 clamps + supports to position the material. After we're done with that we have to manually program each step, and babysit it the entire time it runs (as each new step requires intervention). I would like to be able to just attach a sheet of material directly to a workspace, import the cut path from the CAD model, and just let it run.
Why can't you do that process on the bridgeport?

cbale2000 23-11-2015 15:40
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1507417)
Why can't you do that process on the bridgeport?
As far as mounting it is concerned, the Bridgeport has a work area of like 8" x 40", meaning the parts have to be pre-cut, have the edges cleaned up, and then milled individually (very time consuming). Also being a 2-axis CNC means that an operator has to control the Z-axis manually, which takes even more time and can lead to human error.
As for programming, the Bridgeport is like 30 years old (uses floppy disks). While it does run on G-Code, modern G-Code formatting appears to be incompatible with it. Consequently all the programming is done using the interface on the machine.

Cory 23-11-2015 16:15
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbale2000 (Post 1507420)
As far as mounting it is concerned, the Bridgeport has a work area of like 8" x 40", meaning the parts have to be pre-cut, have the edges cleaned up, and then milled individually (very time consuming). Also being a 2-axis CNC means that an operator has to control the Z-axis manually, which takes even more time and can lead to human error.
As for programming, the Bridgeport is like 30 years old (uses floppy disks). While it does run on G-Code, modern G-Code formatting appears to be incompatible with it. Consequently all the programming is done using the interface on the machine.
Can you elaborate on what it is you're cutting? You say the edges need to be cleaned up. I assume that means that you're cutting all four sides on a bandsaw, out of a larger sheet? If this is for a gearbox plate, have you considered starting with bar stock that is slightly larger than one of the dimensions, so that you only make one cut and are clamping on stock edges? Then you have no need to clean the edges up.

cbale2000 23-11-2015 17:09
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1507429)
Can you elaborate on what it is you're cutting? You say the edges need to be cleaned up. I assume that means that you're cutting all four sides on a bandsaw, out of a larger sheet? If this is for a gearbox plate, have you considered starting with bar stock that is slightly larger than one of the dimensions, so that you only make one cut and are clamping on stock edges? Then you have no need to clean the edges up.
Our drive system is a custom polycarbonate geardrive, so basically each of the polycarbonate panels it need to be the tolerance of a gearbox, but much larger.

asid61 23-11-2015 17:41
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbale2000 (Post 1507436)
Our drive system is a custom polycarbonate geardrive, so basically each of the polycarbonate panels it need to be the tolerance of a gearbox, but much larger.
Would it be possible to just cut it out of a solid sheet of polycarb, instead of cutting to size on he mill?

kitare102 23-11-2015 18:06
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboChair (Post 1507309)
1678 is looking at their router as one option for a CNC small enough to bring in our Pit Boxes, but as with ANY machining tool bigger=BETTER. The price scale on machine tools is almost comical, twice the money can easily get you 3-4 times the machine.
So here's a question for someone with more experience than me. What would the challenges be to taking an x-carve or similar machine and mounting it vertically such that the axis of the router is horizontal? This would allow a team to have a CNC machine in the pit using much less space.

RoboChair 23-11-2015 18:16
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitare102 (Post 1507460)
So here's a question for someone with more experience than me. What would the challenges be to taking an x-carve or similar machine and mounting it vertically such that the axis of the router is horizontal? This would allow a team to have a CNC machine in the pit using much less space.
Should be fine assuming it is rigidly mounted to a wall or stand to help prevent twist in the table and making sure that the chips won't pile up on something important. I would NOT do this with a belt driven gantry. Mounting stuff to it might be a bit annoying however.

RoboChair 23-11-2015 18:21
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbale2000 (Post 1507420)
As far as mounting it is concerned, the Bridgeport has a work area of like 8" x 40", meaning the parts have to be pre-cut, have the edges cleaned up, and then milled individually (very time consuming). Also being a 2-axis CNC means that an operator has to control the Z-axis manually, which takes even more time and can lead to human error.
As for programming, the Bridgeport is like 30 years old (uses floppy disks). While it does run on G-Code, modern G-Code formatting appears to be incompatible with it. Consequently all the programming is done using the interface on the machine.
From what you are describing here it sounds like you have an EZ-TRAK? If so you can use HSMxpress to generate G-code for it after tweaking some parameters, that's what we do anyway. Alternatively you can take the time to modify a post processor's code so that it uses the correct syntax that the Bridgeport will understand(or edit the posted code manually if you are feeling masochistic).

sanddrag 23-11-2015 20:57
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
For those of you thinking of putting a CNC router in your pit area, all I can say is I hope we are not your neighbors.

protoserge 23-11-2015 21:42
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboChair (Post 1507469)
From what you are describing here it sounds like you have an EZ-TRAK? If so you can use HSMxpress to generate G-code for it after tweaking some parameters, that's what we do anyway. Alternatively you can take the time to modify a post processor's code so that it uses the correct syntax that the Bridgeport will understand(or edit the posted code manually if you are feeling masochistic).
Seconded - look at HSMXpress output options. I just generated a file for Anilam conversational control which uses ARC, LINE, RAPID, etc. instead of G00/G01/G02/etc.

rstrawsi 23-11-2015 22:27
Re: X-Carve as a budget CNC?
 
We'll post our experience here once we start some cuts (we're off until after Thanksgiving). Agree with the earlier post that assembly wasn't too bad - the assembly actually has been a great project/learning experience for the team. Thought I would share why we decided to go with the X-Carve vs. the Shapeoko 3 - the cut size the X-Carve could do in the 1000mm kit.

Goon Squad's Machine Specs:
1000mmx1000mm
ACME Lead Screw
NEMA 23 Stepper Motors
Dewalt 611 Router & Mount
Arduino/gShield Motion Controller Kit
Limit Switch Kit
Made our own wasteboard


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