|
Student Field Coaches?
I was just wondering, does your team have students coach on the field? If they do are they the only coach or do they switch off with adults?
|
I'm the strategist for team 668, and I usually wear the "mentor badge" and "coach" the driver, is this what you were referring to?
If so, 80% of the time I play this role. The first match we play, our adult coach is usually in the alliance station, and I might switch off with another student for a match. |
On our team, after the driver's are selected from try-outs in April/May, we had to decide. During the build season, and from what we saw of people in previous years, myself and the other driver had to decide who we wanted on the floor with us. We have a college student who is an alum of the team. With doing this if you make a good decision like we did, you have a wonderful coach who brings much success to you. However, I have seen in the past where the coach was selected because they were a friend, and we ended up not doing well. Also, for our human player,team members came the last long weekend and anyone could practice in the gym. Myself and the other driver made a selection on how well the person did, and also if they were good with communicating, and posesed leadership skills for the floor.
|
My team
My team has only student coaches behind the glass these are people who know the game, know all the players on the field and know stragety(sp?) Right now we have two or three who switch off, that whole thing works well with us, and we like it.:rolleyes:
|
95 has always used a full student drive team.
The drive team is selected near the end of the build time by adult coaches. There is usally a bit of flexibilty here, since students who are picked can make suggestions before it's all set in stone. The pit crew is also run much the same way. -Andy A. |
Team 25 has always had students and former students as mentors for the drive team. Last year (2001) we had full student teams for the entire competition and found out that older kids and engineers on other teams had a hard time working with sophomore and junior students. This year we had a former driver team member, now graduated, return as the mentor and act as "assertive spokesperson" for the drive tream. It worked out much better for us.
Our whole take on the thing is that kids know how to play the game better than the adults. It is a natural fit. WC |
we had three main drivers this year. when i was the main driver (not the one flipping switches and such), i prefered to have one of our college mentors (Michael Krass, you all know him ;)) be the mentor, cause he actually knew the game, and could quickly add up the score and tell me where to be. unfortunatly, one of the teacher/mentors had this thing about being in the spotlight, and just had to be the mentor, so Michael couldn't be mentor. this rather annoyed me, cause he knew how to build a robot, but he had no idea about how the game played. so, when he was mentor, i had to do everything myself, not just driving, but also figuring out the score. all drivers know how much concentration goes into driving, so i was working overtime in those matches. very very annoying.
i think in the end, the best drive team is as follows... Driver 1 - Who ever can control the robot Driver 2 - Someone who knows the game, can listen to instructions, and most important, can get along with the main driver Human Player - Someone tall, and preferably knows the game Mentor - Someone who knows the entire game, gets along with everyone, but most importantly, is very friendly with Driver 1, and during the heat of 'battle', can remain as calm, or even calmer, than everyone else. the mentor's biggest role is to basically yell at the driver, because the driver can get a little overwhelmed at times after reading that, it doesn't really matter how old the mentor is, just how well they work with the main driver. if that link is there in the drive team, you can't get any better. if the mentor has problems with the driver, or the other way around, you need to stop everything else, resolve those problems, or pick a new mentor. just make sure the mentor knows the game though :p. |
Normally, our team has a student coach who is advised by a student strategist (ME! :D ). Our team is quite proud about keeping as many of the team functions student run as humanly possible. The only exception is when one of our former students wants to take command on the field (or wants to hit on the other coach...). Drivers are determined by a driving test consisting of an obstacle course, a test in manipulation of the game object, and a judging at mock-competitions. 1st place becomes driver, 2nd becomes the switcher.
~Hubicki~ |
Quote:
Driver 1 - definately someone who can control the robot, but should also know the game and be able to listen, and has to yell at driver 2 a couple of times, because she fell asleep (literally) in the player station during a match. ;) Driver 2 (*cough*)- someone who knows the game, listens well, get's along with the main driver and not just someone who has to push buttons ... this year I actually had to drive a small fully functional robot with a joystick, which ended up being more difficult than the robot, it had more speed, and many times you lost visibility of it because of its small stature. I wasn't afraid to attack larger objects as some teams found out. Human Player - doesn't have to be tall, we had a girl, that is very atheletic, and she beat out everyone for the position, she was only intimidated a couple of times by huge guys. Mentor- definately has to know the game, they have to get along with the entire floor team, keep the two drivers 'hot on the stick', and keep them calm between matches when all they want to do is keep their head in the garbage can. We were fortunate to have made such a wonderful pick (Lucas) as our coach. He did all of the above, plus helped with scouting, and most of the pre-match discussing with alliance partners. |
Student Coaches
Quote:
The best driver team i believe is people who can operate the robot correctly. Be able to make a decision w/o actually talking about it. People who can get along with another "Greatest Professionalism" People who know the game. People who can act like a "TEAM". Our driver tryouts consist of the following. 1- Who can opearate the robot correctly 2- Who knows the game well 3- Who can come up with a excellent stratedgy 4- Who can shoot the most balls into the goals 5- Who can communicate with one another w/o actually speaking ooohhhhh - telepathic communication 6- Who can get along with others the best 7- Someone who will follow all the rules of the game 8- Whos a good listener 9- Driver 2 can get along with Driver 1 with no problems - Visa versa. |
all students...
On my high school team (349) and with the team I mentor now, we've always had all-student drive teams (with the exception of our 2001 CDI field team which had 1 adult coach). I really think that students can coach just as well if not better than adult team members, and when it comes down to it, FIRST is for the students, so it makes sense for them to be the ones who get to have the great experience of being on the field. Even for people like me who have done FIRST in high school and have experience from previous competitions, I wouldn't feel right knowing I was depriving a student who's actually in high school from having the awesome field experience that I had.
Plus, I think a huge advantage is the interpersonal relationship between students. Students are probably around each other more than they are around the adults, so they know each other better and know how to get across what they're trying to say so that the other person will understand. Plus, some of the best strategy happens when students yell at each other and argue over what should be done and then come up with a compromise (pre-match of course...during the match, not such a good idea... :) ). Some students might feel intimidated by an adult and might not challenge what the adult thinks is the "right" strategy. In 2001, my high school team voted to select our field teams, and we did the same on my new team this year, and it worked out really well. After building a robot for weeks and weeks, everyone wanted to see the team do its best so they all voted for the best people for the job...not necessarily the people they got along with the best. Anyway, I guess my bottom line is...often students' desires for the team do well are underestimated, and if you just trust that the students will make responsible decisions about their robot both on and off the field, everything will work out to the team's advantage. |
Re: Student Coaches
Quote:
Team522 Captain, I am glad to see that I am not the only one who believes the telepathic communication. It deffinately works! Other people on my team think the other driver and I are just weird. So many other drivers yell at each other, then it tends to frighten me as their alliance partner. With this type of communication no need to talk and no need to yell. The best driver set up you could ever have! |
about the drivers yelling back and forth, that's usually not supposed to happen, but yeah, i've had plenty of that. although, if one driver is falling asleep, they either don't have a lot to do, or it's a really boring match :p. i think in the end, the drive team matters not on who controls the robot the best, or who shoots the balls the best (and yes, i go against my previous post in saying they don't have to be tall ;)), but more on which four people can get along, communicate with grunts and hand gestures (no time for words in the heat of a match :D), and most importantly, all can think about different strategies. it doesn't help the team to have 4 people exactly the same driving, it's better to have different ideas floating around, cause one rouynd, strategy one might work, but the second round, it might not.
|
Our team tried the all-student drive team for the first time this year, and we had great success with it. The student handled herself as well as or better than the previous year's adult coach. (me).
That said, I really enjoyed being down on the floor with the team during the competitions last year. It brought a level of excitement that is unparalleled when sitting in the stands, and really gave an indication of how hard these drivers really have it during a match. I don't think that teams should be required to have only student drivers, though, as has been advocated by some on these boards. What's good for one team is not necessarily good for the gander, or something like that. |
For us it depends on who the drivers are, and who wants to coach. This year we had a really smart drive team(drivers, coach, HP) all made up of students. In past years we have had an adult coach. If you have young drivers than i think you need to have an adult coach, but if you have experinced drivers than the adult influence isn't nessesary.
The adults this years had the smallest role in the actual game this year than any other year. Our stategy was all thought up by students. |
I found out this year though that once you have a strategy, you should stay consistent. We used the same strateg throughout the year, and the only thing the coach had to do was kept the score in his head, and watch the field from a larger perspective so we didn't miss anything that was going on. Oh, and he had to make sure I remembered to deploy Moose and drive it home!
|
Our Drive Team
Our coaches have always been adults, because our leaders are experienced and we lack students who would want to fill that position.
In the past for team 74 there has been very little competition for the positions of driver(controls movement) and operator(controls the arms + claws,etc). However, this year, with many people trying for the positions it was very different. Our leaders narrowed it down to 6 ppl (4 for operator + driver, 2 for HP). However, this is as far as it went, so we ended up with a "static" drive team. I really dont feel it worked well at all, not because the drivers did bad or anything but because the one driver who eventually did drive could probably have been better with more practice time(even if not, it still would be a good idea) while time was given to the other candidates to try for driver. My reccomendation is to decide early about who is to be your team's driver and operator and stick with it. |
We recommend having at least 2 drivers who are reasonably familiar with the machine. This is based on our experience last year of having our lead driver get sick Friday morning at San Jose. It certainly had an adverse effect on our seeding.
BTW it certainly wasn't nerves, this was Nick's fifth year driving and his nickname is "the Iceman", with good reason. ChrisH |
Our team has, with just a couple of exceptions, always used student coaches. A few times last year, we had one student and one adult, but that didn't work too well. Our adult coach got a little too jumpy when things weren't going well, and hit one of the other team's stop buttons. He learned his lesson, but we've stuck with student coaches since then, since adults don't do that much better, and we want this to be about the students, not the adults. Our student coaches (including myself) have done a good job, and we like it that way.
|
also, one thing that you probably shouldn't do is have a current driver be a mentor (if your team has more than one driver). they might be a little too inclined to grab the controls to make the robot do something, and as we all know, that's a bad thing. in fact, any mentor should be told before each match, make even one move for the controls, and we'll toss you, cause no one wants to be DQ'ed for a stupid thing like that.
i think one match, we got very lucky (when taking all things into account). we were up against RAGE (great team, btw), and our chains just fell off on one side. so, we were effectivly dead, cause spinning around the field doesn't help much. so, i managed to get the robot back into the hoem zone (i was driver), and then i tried testing the individual sides, to see if i could pinpoint the problem. after i figure out the entire right side is dead, i turn and tell our mentor (i won't say any names), and tell him the robot is useless, and that someone did something to knock off the chains. now, i don't remember this exactly, but i'm 99.9% sure that he didn't believe me, and then reached out, and grabbed the right joystick, to 'make sure' i was right. now, up to this point, this was our worst match, but if our mentor did indeed touch the joystick, we got incredibly lucky, because we were not DQ'ed. also, next year, the mentor badges should be much easier to spot. they should be a different color entirely, or just have a big 'MENTOR' printed on them, cause a little sticker, while it works, isn't the best solution. and, with the amount of pins FIRST gets, i doubt that adding another word to one, or printing it on different paper would cost that much more. |
Re: Student Coaches
Quote:
Quote:
Anywho, I was just speaking up for my student coach. Who isn't slow thinking. Wetzel ~~~~~~~~~~~ If I have to, I can do anything I am strong I am invincible I am teenaged! |
student Field Coaches
In reply to Wetzels message.....
I was talking more in general about my team. The kids from my school and they will admit this are not the sharpest tools in the shed. There have been maybe 1 or 2 students in my school on my robotics team that were smart and pretty quick at coming up with a fallback plan during a match when the coaches couldn't. Those 2 students were our drivers for ALL major competitions just for the simple fact that they communicate well, drive well, they don't take anything for granted. Your right there are alot of good student coaches and i know a few of them myself. I guess i shouldve been a little bit more precise on what i was saying. I was just stating why my team only has adult coaches and not student coaches. I was not really talking about other teams. Some teams work well with student coaches some work well with both student and adult coaches and others work well with adults. Our team works well with the adult coach. ;) I do apologize if I have offended any of the teams who use the student coaches @ a competition. |
P.S.
By the way Congradulations RAGE (Team 173) on becoming the 2002 National Champs.
Team 522 - RoboWizards Mike - Team Captain |
students run 713
After the drama of this year everything on the floor has now been voted to be student run from now on. This year I was coaching our team as a Jr. in high school, I will be doing the same next year (look for me). I agree with Jeff on the point that students are fully capable coaching robotics teams effectively. This year we won a 2 on 1 match, our partner didn’t work, we didn't have a working ball handling thingy, or goal grabbers but thanks to me an our driver we beat a 2 goal grabber and a 1 goal grabber. To think we had nothing but a drive train and a lot of yelling.
p.s. WE BEAT THE BRISTISH...AGAIN....in that match that is |
the only student coach i knew was of team 272...Megan
|
422's drivers
We had a generally lax approach about 2 of the spots on our drive team. Thomas Fortuna and I were always the mentor and primary driver, respectively, this year. Since we only had two buttons on our secondary controller (heh... one disabled the other, the other was a rocker switch for our goal grabber...), the secondary driver only had to be able to listen and follow directions. The human player rotated between 3 tall guys that never really impacted our games much more than one or two points.
Unfortunately, our secondary drivers sometimes didn't want to follow instructions, and instead had different ideas as to how the game should be played. That didn't work out too well, but we eventually 'persuaded' them to our arguments... Thomas was a sophomore last year, as was I. He had a great mind for strategy and knew the game in and out, and was able to work extremely fluidly with any other coaches. We'd always be at someone's pit 15 minutes before queing(sp), or more depending on the strength of our opponents. Our mentors have never really expressed an interest in the spotlight or playing the game. One of our mechanical mentors, Reggie, said "I just build the thing. You can drive it any way you want. Just realize that I built that robot tough for a reason, and don't go pansying it around". I get the feeling that if we let him in the driver's area we'd be deaf by the end of the match by all the competitive screams of his. I think that the key to the whole driver issue is to really run through who is actually qualified in the week before shipping. If there are two really good drivers and a really good coach, rotate the drivers and keep the coach. If there is just one really good driver, let him or her drive, but train someone else. Make sure to train a second driver that can fill in if the first person is sick or mysteriously absent (CODEX meeting, maybe? :) |
IRI
We've always had a mentor as our coach until IRI. She was transferred to Texas so one of our students stepped up. She really knew her stuff and did a great job helping out our rookie driver. I hope she will be our coach for the next season.
|
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:55. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi