VEXpro 2016
 

We are thrilled to announce the latest batch of new products from VEXpro, ready to go for the 2016 FRC season!

• VersaPlanetary Integrated Encoder - Seamlessly combining the powerful CTR Electronics SRX Magnetic Encoder with the "most Versa" gearbox in FIRST
• 775pro - West Coast Products changes the rules of the game. CIM power in a 775 form-factor. You're welcome.
• VersaDrop - Making articulated "butterfly" or "octocanum" drivetrains available to all
• Plastic VersaFrame Stock - Taking "lightweight mechanism design" to another level
• 3.25" Omni-Directional Wheel - Because let's be frank, small is the new cool

But wait, there's more..! In addition to these new products, we are also launching some exciting new sections to our website.

Motors.VEX.com - VEX Robotics DC Motor Testing

DC motor selection is an essential part of robot and mechanism design, but the sea of specifications and options available can sometimes be confusing. To help aid budding robot designers in understanding this relationship, VEX has developed an educational guide that explains the four key characteristics of DC motors and how they can be used to select the ideal motor for your application.

Furthermore, to ensure that users have the data needed to make such an educated selection, VEX has tested seven popular motors (including the new 775pro) using industry-standard methods and published motor curves, peak power tests, and locked rotor stall tests for all to see and analyze. Head to http://motors.vex.com/ and pick your favorite motor to get started!


VEX Merchandise Store

Believe it or not, this is actually one of our most-requested items. So, by popular demand, now anyone can pick up your own VEX "swag" in a variety of styles and designs! This is not exclusive to VEXpro, so if you're a VEX EDR or VEX IQ fan this should be great news for you too. Take a look at http://www.vexrobotics.com/merchandise to pick out your next shirt (or hoodie, or track jacket, or iPad case..). We hope to update this store regularly, so check back often or let us know if there is anything you would like to see!

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Re: VEXpro 2016
 

I was starting to wonder if you guys had forgotten about this or if there really was an update, especially since the only official word about the update was just that one Twitter post. ;)

Any ETA when the site will be back up, and will there by any release video or stream like you guys have done in the past for this update?

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

Wait, is this the Vexmas gif party?

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

THEY'RE GONNA STREAM IT DIRECTLY TO YOUR BRAIN, YO. THE FUTURE.

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I'm so pumped :D

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reported/deported for lack of funny image

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/thread

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They didn't forget, JVN even leaked what they will be releasing.

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

OMG THANK YOU FOR THE NEW 775!!

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

And we're back! First post has been updated with some specific info, but check out the New for 2016 page for details.

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

Re Motors.Vex.Com What's the sample size?

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

That 775 motor though!!

Battery In: 12V DC
Free Speed: 18,700 rpm (+/- 10%)
Maximum Power: 347 W
Stall Torque: 6.28 in-lbs (0.71 N-m)
Stall Current: 134A
Size: 1.744” (44.3 mm) diameter, 2.602” (66.10 mm) long
Weight: 0.8 lbs (actual weight one item, no packaging)

I'm guessing that VEX has more-or-less 'pre-approved' this with FIRST HQ... There'd be some serious public outcry if that motor weren't allowed!

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

Currently 8 motors were tested for that Data, will develop further over time.

-Aren

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

I might be asking a but is it possible to put that number (and maybe min/max) somewhere on the page?

I also assume all of this is stored in the raw data section but I haven't gotten there yet.

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That 775 has an awesome power output. All my worries are gone. The new best FRC motor is back. More powerful then a CIM is plain amazing

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Vex Pro 2016:

WHAT!?


YES!

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They listened to me :D VP encoder!

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This is appears to be a much higher quality motor than the one banebots sourced as well.

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Commence the year of the brown out!

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

Do you guys ever think you would be able to test the old 775, that way teams could easily compare it to the new 775pro?

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Look at the page again :)

http://motors.vex.com/

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Here, I did it really quickly for you. ;)

http://motors.vex.com/bb-775

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Lol response overload :D I guess I'm just blind.

Totally. Teams are going to need to be really careful.

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Could you make a totally non scientific video bashing the new plastic extrusion with a hammer? I'm a huge fan of plastics but convincing others will be difficult.

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

Neat stuff!

How are the tolerances on the polycarb tubing? We use extruded polycarb round tubes for underwater robots, and the dimensions are pretty consistently off of nominal.

Powerful little motors! For the locked rotor stall test, it looks like they'll cook if stalled in under 10ms? EDIT: oh, I can't read units on graphs. Looks like it cooked at about 3 seconds from the raw data you have

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

2015 control system + 2015 motor rules in any other game would've been the year of the brownout anyway. Depending on 2016 motor rules (Still unlimited non-CIM? 6 total CIM+Vex775?), you're right that it could be remarkably bad.

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Any chance we could get measured RS-550 data too? It would be useful for translating prototypes or old robot mechanisms into equivalent current-season-legal designs...and also to satisfy my hunch that the RS-550 radically underperforms its specs :)

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Are the gears in the VP integrated encoder 1:1?
Any updates on the plastic versablocks to fix the stripping issue?

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One stat I'd like to see on the motor page: how long can each motor run at stall before it burns out.

At 135W, and no mass to sink it, I bet the 775Pro burns in a second. (Unless you could rig a secondary cooling blower. Hmmmm)

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

The locked rotor stall test conveys this. Looks like it lasts 3.911 seconds.

Battery sag + all the resistance in line changes that some on an FRC robot though. These look like they'll be fairly robust.

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Just strap a fan onto another 775 directly behind it. :D :p

Also, when can we expect the new 775's to be in stock?

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Oh thanks. I missed that (didn't realize there was more information when you click on each motor). 4 seconds isn't a lot of time though. Maybe it's time to design a Versaplanetary clutch stage? :)

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WCP will have equivalent pages up and we should have a decent amount of stock shipping within a week or so.

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If you like stalling motors at 12V for that much time... perhaps I can interest you in one of our sealed-can motors? :)

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Probably a wise suggestion :) I'm trying to remember how many intake motors my old team went through in 2014. It was nice to have a lightweight powerful motor to rush the ball into the bot, but when the ball came in a little crooked... poof.

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Looking forward to those integrated encoders on the VP. This is a great addition for teams that are looking to do more advanced controls without having to use third party sensors and create custom mounts.

Also obviously excited for the 775pro, can't wait to get our hands on some.

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Is the VersaPlanetary Integrated Encoder Thru Coupling the same material as the typical Versaplanetary gearset? Is there a maximum torque/power for the coupling, or is it more likely that other things will break first? This is a 'best practice' question for something like an arm or something like a 2015 tote elevator winch. Phrased via example, would the encoder be safe enough on the last stage in (e.g.) the faster stackers of 2015 or would we want to consider moving it a stage up to reduce its transmitted torque?

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

This torque spec will be updated on the product page in the coming weeks.

-Aren

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Does the VersaDrop only work with two 4" wheels? Or can you use a 4" wheel and a 6"?

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Best gift to the FRC community since the 2005 KoP gearbox.

100% Richard approved. :)

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The total drop is only ~0.6" (only 0.2" of which is "below zero"), so I'm guessing not as designed. Instead, I'm trying to find out if the gear ratio between the two wheels can be modified significantly.

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If I'm reading the benchmarks right and doing my math correctly... if you geared down this motor to the same RPM as a CIM, isn't it actually slightly more powerful than said CIM? :eek:

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It's hard to pick a thing to be most excited about.

I'm very thankful for all the effort put into the data gathering on motors. I agree with Richard above that that might be the best gift to FRC in quite some time.

Tied with the 775Pro.

Tied with the the integrated VP encoder that can do both relative and absolute. (EDIT: See note from nuclearnerd ozrien below)

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This so perfect! Thank you to everyone a part of the Vex team, but one question: Will we ever get a #ballshiftsohard hoodie?

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There's a big asterisk on the "absolute encoder" thing. It's still a relative encoder, but it includes it's own counter. It's nice not to have to implement a counter on the rio, but you would still have the problem of the zero changing every time you start up the robot. An actual absolute encoder would give the proper reading no matter how often the sensor had been turned off and moved. (see page 22 of the encoder user guide here: http://content.vexrobotics.com/vexpr...User-Guide.pdf)

I'm wondering - do the rules allow us to power the encoder from a separate 5V battery that we could leave on all the time (even when the main battery is removed)?

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It truly is a Merry Vexmas!

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Thanks for the catch. Definitely a big asterisk that I'm glad you pointed out. Got wrapped up in too much excitement!

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On the subject of the encoder - it looks like it needs a "diametrically polarized" magnet to spin in front of it to work. The user guide I linked has lots of tips for embedding the magnet in existing gearboxes, with the glaring exception of VEX ballshifters (which currently need encoders to have a 1/4" bushing-supported shaft).

I wonder if VEX has a solution already cooked up for ballshifters and these new encoders. If not, I wonder if it would be possible to make a replacement for the plastic encoder gear that has pockets for multiple magnets around the perimeter (or something).

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

The sensor provides both an absolute and a relative position. The "absolute position" is an absolute 12bit encoded value that wraps every rotation. This works similarly to the MA3 absolute analog encoder which gives you an absolute voltage (0 to 3.3V) for one full rotation.

You can think of it like having an MA3 analog encoder and a relative quadrature encoder both kitted in one, which solves several challenges in closed-looping.

If you don't move the mechanism and you power cycle the sensor, the bottom 12bits of the analog position remains unchanged.

Yes both the absolute and relative positions count the wrap arounds. But this doesn't mean you lose the benefit of absolute position. If you're application does not need wrap-around counting (like a continuous swerve) its pretty easy to add in the number of whole rotations to your 12 bit target position to achieve what you want. In fact this gives you the benefit of absolute position, plus you get to decide which direction you want to servo (always clockwise, always counterclockwise, or choose the path with smallest distance.)

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It has one.

Edit: Ops thought you were talking about the VP encoder stage.

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Nope, the ball shifters. Although with a little creativity, maybe the versa planetary stage could be hacked onto the ball shifter...

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One thing I'm wondering now is why the 775 didn't get released last year? Its part number is right in the middle of last years numbering, and its drawing says October of 2014. ::rtm::

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It'll be fun to swap a couple of these new 775s into our 2015 stacking robot, which currently uses two BaneBots 775s on the lift. Love the specs on this new motor. In theory, you could do a full robot without CIMs, though I wouldn't recommend it. I'm interested in seeing how this plastic tubing holds up too.

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Very nice job on the DC motor tutorial, I have taught this subject many times. Understanding these principles is the key to properly designing any electrified mechatronic device. This tutorial is very well laid out, and does not use any concepts which are above high school levels of understanding. Nicely done!

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Probably took a while to get approval from FIRST. 1323 was testing them on their bot during Madtown Throwdown 2014.

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Agreed. Very handy explanation.

Having the 50% power for 180 seconds test, as well as the stall at different voltages, will be super handy for sizing systems.

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Woo! Drop down modules! Grasshopper drive for all! :D

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I believe you meant 50% speed:p . The test is at the theoretical "max" power

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Looking awesome guys. The motor selection guide looks awesome and will be a huge help to all teams.

However, I noticed a small units issue for calculating the peak power that you may want to fix up.

Work = 196W should be Work =196J
and then Power = Work/time

Re: VEXpro 2016
 

The 775pro looks totally awesome. I am very happy that we no longer have to purchase from BaneBots.

I'm confused by the section in the motors guide that starts with "Note: Current Draw at Peak Power"

196 watts is not the power requirement for a motor to lift 20 kg 1.0 meters in the air. Power depends on the speed at which the box is lifted and motors should be selected based on the power required from them, not the amount of work being performed. The units are also a little questionable.

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From what I see, there's nothing that says that the 775pro is going to be legal for the 2016 season; (I guess the same could be said about any other motor) albeit FIRST did decide to not allow the Banebots ones anymore due to the supply running out.

It just concerns me that on the page for this motor is does not say it is FRC legal, unlike the CIM motor.

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Technically we won't know until the rules come out with the game. OR if FIRST decides that people should know before kickoff that it is or not FRC legal.

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As a team that likes to run a robot that can push around other robots, thanks for VersaDrop.

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TL;DR: 775Pro looks good. New motor page is awesome. What is happening during the peak power test?

Glad to see a viable (and then some)* replacement for the 18V BB RS-775. Is the 775pro made by CCL/CIM? If so, they make all the high power (149 W+) FRC motors between the CIM, Mini CIM, BAG, and AndyMark 9015...

In any case, I was super stoked to see the new motors website. Consistent data from a reliable source is always a good thing when considering which motor(s) to use, and as student/motor nerd I think it's great how transparent VEX is about testing.

Speaking of which, can someone please explain to me what exactly is happening during the peak power test? From my understanding the motor is running open loop with a regulated power supply and receives a controlled "half stall" torque. Over time the power output (which I assume is actually measured velocity times controlled torque) decreases. Is the motor just heating up over time and therefore unable to produce as much mechanical work? Is the reduced maximum power permanent? Some of the motors look like they burn out before 3 minutes, but I wouldn't assume one way or the other for the sealed can motors.

*Awaiting a season's worth of stress testing for final opinions, but it definitely looks good on paper.

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Of all of the new products, the one I most can't wait for is the 775pro! I want to check out the plastic versaframe too, but I want to see some specs on it, particularly when compared to 0.040" or 0.0625" aluminum box tubing.

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Has anyone heard of the "Hero Gadgeteer"?

Page 18 of http://content.vexrobotics.com/vexpr...User-Guide.pdf shows the encoder being connected to this.

It looks like some sort of CAN enabled IO board or controller, designed to interface with TalonSRX style IO connectors.

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I expect that it will behave similarly to polycarbonate 1x1 tubing teams used in 2014 - fairly strong, somewhat flexible, great for applications outside the frame perimeter. I'm glad that there's finally a great source for this stuff!

Great products all around from Vexpro this year, very excited to see what teams can do with the new 775, drop modules, etc.

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I love all the motor data.

I also would REALLY like to see the data on the BB RS-550. After using them in our elevator last year, I feel like the published specs weren't quite...right.

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I think there is a typo on the 775pro page. It says the shaft size is 5mm (.0157in) 5mm is roughly 0.196 inches. The drawing has it right.

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Will it be possible to purchase the Versaplanetary encoder housing separately from the encoder? We'll be getting some encoders to play with in other applications as well, wondering if we can later assemble them into VP housings without buying the whole kit.

(Looks like from the manuals the encoder is not modified to fit the VP, correct me if I'm wrong.)

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That is correct, the shaft is 5mm @ .196 ish and not 4mm @ .157.

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This is a common request, but unfortunately when we went to purchase BB550's for testing, they were unavailable.

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I'm sure you could find some unused ones from teams that are willing to part with them.

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Oops! This has been fixed, thanks for pointing it out.

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Sure thing, any team with (8) or more unused BB550 motors should email prosupport@vex.com

We're happy to test them.

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Great stuff as usual!

Any chance the brackets from the VersaDrop kit will be available for individual purchase? Specifically the piston mount bracket would be super handy for general piston mounting, but I'm not going to buy a kit if I'm only using that.

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VersaDrop is perfect for h-drive.

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Really excited for the versaplanetary encoder stage. We will certainly be getting a few of those along with more gearboxes.

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Yes it is. VersaDrop makes it so much easier to build a nonadrive, or as I like to call it, butterslide drive. My favorite part about the VersaDrop is that because it's COTS, you can bring extra modules with to competition without them counting against your withholding allowance.

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Any idea on when the new items should be available for order?

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Why is it that on the assembly instructions for the unit, the VersaDrop is shown with a motor attached directly (a clever design), while in the octocanum rendering, the drive motors for the Drops are separate? Seems like this would be the perfect opportunity to simplify the design.

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WCP has the stuff up for ordering, still modifying the pages a bit tho. We will not be shipping out new items for about 1-2 weeks.

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I think it is just to show you all the different ways it could be configured.

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So, no way to get them before new years, for international teams with a 1 week shipping time?

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We won't be able to sadly but if you call the folks at VEX I'm sure they can make happen for you (no guarantees but please give them a call). We are receiving stock from VEX.

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Notice that they called it a "cylinder mount?" Because it is a cylinder, not a piston.

Be proud that you are the first victim of my annual "It's a cylinder, not a piston" campaign.

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My campaign is cement vs concrete. (I designed concrete batching plants a long time ago so I'm a bit sensitive.)

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Does anyone know if the Versadrop piston actuates well when driving the robot on a cement sidewalk?

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"It's a cylinder, not a piston"

Brought to you by the IACNAP campaign.

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I cannot think of any reason why the type of surface would affect the actuation of the Versadrop cylinder. Any solid surface should work fine I would think.