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-   -   Utilizing AM's New Wheels (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140389)

dtengineering 18-12-2015 14:49
Re: Utilizing AM's New Wheels
 
This wouldn't be the first mechanical sport to change out tires at the end of a match. Some even change part way through! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZAw8cG9ZKs

It could get expensive to use them every match... which is why some of the racing sports limit teams to the number of tires they use in a season. However you can purchase various durometers of Urethane at resin supply shops, so there is no reason you couldn't design your own wheels, or a mold for the AM wheels, and re-cast your own tires when needed.

In fact I'm off to cast some mini-sumo robot tires right now...

Jason

KrazyCarl92 18-12-2015 14:50
Re: Utilizing AM's New Wheels
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiehardCybercard (Post 1513419)
After how those wheels reacted to the extremes of the 2013 game the am-0940 was redesigned to have beefier ribs and some thicknesses were increased. This took care of the void problems you're mentioning.
Awesome, glad to hear it! I redact my statement in this case from "avoid at almost any cost" to "proceed attentively".

I suppose we just haven't seen many teams use 6" HiGrips recently since the kitbot switched to 4", there was little reason to go bigger in 2014, and holonomic was common in 2015.

Side note, the level of customer service and continuous improvement from AndyMark and other FIRST suppliers in response to customer concerns is amazing. Thank you!

asid61 18-12-2015 14:54
Re: Utilizing AM's New Wheels
 
I really want to test out the different durometers of wheels on the gamepiece before making any judgements. This year could be an intake-heavy game, whereas 2014 might be a game where your intake is used only several times per match.

DiehardCybercard 18-12-2015 15:17
Re: Utilizing AM's New Wheels
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyCarl92 (Post 1513426)
Side note, the level of customer service and continuous improvement from AndyMark and other FIRST suppliers in response to customer concerns is amazing. Thank you!
I think I can speak for all suppliers, not just AndyMark when I say, We're happy to help. We all want to see teams be the best they can be!

Sperkowsky 18-12-2015 17:16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeelandS (Post 1513401)
From a conditioning standpoint this might be true but to make a change in functionality like that over the course of a lunch break, when the driver's have been competing with that robot the way it's been all day(s), it seems like it might throw off some coordination and timing.

To clarify, what kind of non-drive mechanisms would you consider using the wheels for? Shooters, intakes? Else?
Intakes

Sperkowsky 18-12-2015 17:24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto (Post 1513403)
Make what "easier"? I assume you mean make acquiring/manipulating the game piece "easier"?

How will increased "grip" on the game piece effect it's intake velocity/momentum? How will that impact the rest of your system and control loops? What other mechanisms could be impacted by this change?

Just as a mental exercise, spend some time pondering the impact of changing out the intake wheels on a 2015 118 robot. How does that effect the rest of system?

Things to think about.

-Mike

Edit: lots of smarter people are also faster at posting than me.
Definitely fair. You obviously know a lot more then I do about competitive play as your teams robots are one of the best examples of a consistently competitive bot.

Just wondering would you ever use the blue or even black wheels?

I know I've heard Banebots wheels wear out quick but 1-2 Matches is crazy.

Knufire 18-12-2015 18:01
Re: Utilizing AM's New Wheels
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1513443)
Definitely fair. You obviously know a lot more then I do about competitive play as your teams robots are one of the best examples of a consistently competitive bot.

Just wondering would you ever use the blue or even black wheels?

I know I've heard Banebots wheels wear out quick but 1-2 Matches is crazy.
The blue HiGrip was quoted to last one match in a drivetrain application. A blue BB wheel in a drivetrain would probably shred just as fast.

Electronica1 18-12-2015 18:05
Re: Utilizing AM's New Wheels
 
Is it possible the wheels might be more viable for drop down drive systems, since the traction wheels are only in use for a very small portion of the match?

Munchskull 18-12-2015 18:26
Re: Utilizing AM's New Wheels
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knufire (Post 1513455)
The blue HiGrip was quoted to last one match in a drivetrain application. A blue BB wheel in a drivetrain would probably shred just as fast.
BB blues and AM blues are both rated at 50A durometer. So that would make sense.

LeelandS 19-12-2015 02:08
Re: Utilizing AM's New Wheels
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronica1 (Post 1513456)
Is it possible the wheels might be more viable for drop down drive systems, since the traction wheels are only in use for a very small portion of the match?
Doing this might prolong the duration of the wheels, however it would make checking them after every match a necessity. If we take Nick's statements on the life of the wheels as fact (which at this point we have to, but our mileage may vary), then we know when to change the wheels; the black ones after a day and the blue ones after a match. By reducing the amount of time the wheels spend on carpet, we reduce the amount of time between changing, but this also means that we can't predict exactly when they will wear out. Not a huge issue, as long as there is a system in place to check the wheels before and after every match.

I'd be interested to know if the force exerted on the wheels against the carpet by the cylinder that actuates the module would increase the wear rate of the wheel.

GeeTwo 19-12-2015 03:27
Re: Utilizing AM's New Wheels
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeelandS (Post 1513566)
I'd be interested to know if the force exerted on the wheels against the carpet by the cylinder that actuates the module would increase the wear rate of the wheel.
I'm fairly certain it would, but if you reduce the weight carried by the wheel, you reduce the lateral force it can apply to the robot*, which was the point of using such soft tires in the first place.

Edit: Or were you thinking of using more wheels and spreading the load out farther? That would likely increase the tread life, but also increase the cost of replacement both in time and money.

* Unless you are limited not by F=μN, but by the tensile strength of the tread or other consideration.

Chris is me 19-12-2015 07:55
Re: Utilizing AM's New Wheels
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchskull (Post 1513458)
BB blues and AM blues are both rated at 50A durometer. So that would make sense.
Equal durometer does not mean equal traction or equal durability by any means. The wheels are made of very different materials.


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