FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Initial thoughts?

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

So many things to do!

Edit:
Manual password @Ahead)Together!FRC^2016

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

I think we have a new contender for best FRC game!

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Oh god.

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READ THE RULES! There is going to be a lot to this game!

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Medieval stuff could be a little corny but I like the game overall.

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OH! what FUN

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Audience selecting the final defense is going to be interesting... love how that works with the medieval theme!

Also, extremely different way of using ranking points this year. You earn ranking points not only by winning the match, but also breaching the defenses and capturing the tower.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Looks complicated, but I really like it! This is my first year with FRC, so I'm pretty excited to be a part of it!

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I like the game, just hope the FMS/refs can keep up with it...

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It looks like teams with more members with have a defense selection advantage since their yells will be more pronounced.

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Just a safety reminder... https://youtu.be/moM5DadQSXM

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Field Reset Hell.

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It reminds me of 2012 and I predict it will play out similarly. Smart teams should have a significant advantage early as they will be focusing on barriers and scoring low while non-experienced teams will likely be attempting to score high.

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Best game I have seen since starting in 2005!

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Definitely in my top 9 favorite games since Overdrive.

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Not a water game???!?!?

Well guys, time to start drilling for weight.

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I honestly think this will come into play during alliance selection early-midway through the season (loud teams as 2nd/3rd picks).

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It does have a moat field element...

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Though it is somewhat similar to 2012, one team on an alliance can get 4 ranking points while another team has the possibility to get 0 (not winning, not damaging the defense, not capturing the tower).

This is very different from 2012 where if cooperation happened both alliances received ranking points.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Really challenging, especially for rookie team to build one or two practice field elements. Difficult to build a an uberbot that can both get across multiple barriers against defense, and then be able to attack tower. a simple boxbot can defend against an uberbot. Even a well established team would have trouble constructing multiple field elements to test against. I'll predict there will be a lot of pre-competition co-op to build practice field and discuss strategies.

Can Anyone put up an alternated site for the manual and field drawings? I can't get them from FIRST - timeouts. The webcast was perfect. I was ROTFL. Now go bring me a shrubbery!

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

My god the foam balls are expensive

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Agreed. I was more referring to that fact that ranking points can be earned by ways other than winning matches, like 2012. (It is possible for a team to win a match and be passed in the rankings by a team they just beat).

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How many boulders can we carry after the autonomous code?

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Robot may be in possession of only one boulder at any given time.

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Rule below. Just if anyone was confused about what possessing or controling was.

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It's lit!

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Refree job is hell even more

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This looks incredibly difficult. Takes the award for "Most Complex FRC game" from Recycle Rush (or perhaps Diabolical Dynamics).

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Anybody else notice 1 boulder is $35.00 from andymark?!?!? Seems crazy expensive, or did I read the description wrong and you get more than 1?

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Will there be water in the moat defense

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I think it's just blue HDPE... it better be HDPE..

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I see the same thing. The pack of 6 is $205 on gophersport.

http://www.gophersport.com/pe/premiu...ls?sku_id=3409

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Is it legal to shoot the boulder from the neutral zone over the obstacles to the opponents side.? So that our spy can get the Boulder and score

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I'd suggest reading G39 and G40, along with G42. How many tech fouls do you want?

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Check Rule G40.

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Agreed. Might be a worse game to referee then Aerial Assist.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

This looks like an absolutely awesome game, I'm really excited to see what everyone comes up with. That being said, there are a lot of pretty complicated field elements. It's going to be hard for teams that don't have tons of students and money to practice.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

The moat has dehydrated water in it, just add water!

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For rule G22, would it be considered pinning if a robot was to inhibit forward motion while the opposing robot was in an defense?

For example, if the opposing robot was trying to move past one of the barriers and blocked forward motion into our side, would that be considered pinning?

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

In the point values table, one of the things you can get points for is "REACHING A DEFENSE". I'm guessing it's a typo and they mean BREACHING, but I just want to make sure. Any ideas? Thanks!

Edit: Section 3.3.1, page 33

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Check G43 and see if that answers your question.

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I believe that in autonomous you get points for going onto the platform of a defensehaving any part of your bumpers within the outer works. Check page 31.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Read again. It's in auto mode. Reaching and Breaching are not the same thing.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Yes it does. thank you.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Alright. Thanks for the help!

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Does anyone know if you can score on a tower after it is fully weakened?

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Do boulders scored in auto count towards lowering the tower defense? I didn't see anything either way in the game manual.

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Can you go through a defense twice in autonomous?

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Unless there is another rule about traction that i could not find, would this make Treads legal as long they fit in this criteria?

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

I see nothing that says you can't but check page 31 for details about decreasing the strength of a defense in auto.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

So is your driver station right behind your castle? Or is your castle on the other side of the field?

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

it looks like it is between Station 2 and 3

Edit: misread question, Look at reply below.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Yes your driver station is behind your own castle.

That's not what he is asking.

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Can your alliance accidentally weaken your own defenses? Because you are defending and the try to go to the neutral zone through the defenses...

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So, what's the spy box good for?!

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Spying

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I misread. thank you.

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I think treads have always been legal.

Speaking of treads, does anybody know any good resources for building and/or buying treads?

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Andymark

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You can have a human player direct you, since it's hard to see what your doing on the opponents side from your driver station

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This question is interesting.. I think you can weaken/damage your own defenses. Correct me if I am wrong, but that's my interpretation of the rules so far

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Btw, doesn anyone know if flying is illegal?

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Can you go from the courtyard to the defense? Or do you have to use the secret passage?

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Know that, anybody else?

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

From YOUR side, you can use the secret passage. If you're on THEIR side (where you're trying to score), you can't.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Ok... how do you get back from their side you're scoring on to the neutral zone?

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Personally, I'd take a Sally Port or a Drawbridge.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

ok thanks... the sally port would be a win win because you can get another robot over there and break their defenses.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

so is there anything stopping us from going back and forth on an defense to get points? and would our defenses be weakened if we pass through it? and does it count as weakening defense if we cross one from the enemy side to the neutral zone?

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Is there a maximum height from the ground to the bottom of the chassis?

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You only get points for crossing a particular defense once, after that no points are awarded. Also it seems as if passing through your own defense does weaken it, so take the secret passage. And a crossing is defined as going from neutral over the defense and onto the enemy courtyard.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Realized i wrote the wrong thing, to Damage the defenses, could you just go back and forth?

Glanced over that, thank you.

Some people on my team think you can do it twice before no points will be awarded (logic is its undamaged, then weakened, then damaged, and since it is not damaged till crossed twice you would get points) do you have a rule to back up what you have said?

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

You can get points for crossing each defense twice because the defense is not damaged until the defense's strength is zero. You can only get points for crossing or weaken a defense once in auto.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

You are correct, I just checked that. You get 10 points in Auto, and 5 points in tele for crossing an undamaged defense. a defense is considered damaged once its strength is zero, so you can get points for crossing twice

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Great game! Has lots of opportunities for gotchas and trade space when it comes to design. It will be rough on volunteers. Challenge Accepted.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

If we score a ball during auto does that count against the enemy's castle?

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Section 3.1.4: The Tower
Each TOWER starts the MATCH with eight (8) STRENGTH. Each BOULDER scored in a GOAL decreases the TOWER’S STRENGTH by one (1).

Hmm doesnt say anything about auton/teleop

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Did first give us regulations regarding the flag we post above our player station? This is a very important issue...

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It is the best game since i have been on my team.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Can someone help me understand some things about defenses?

Am I correct in believing that when the audience selects the defense, the same defense is used on both sides?

When alliances make their selections for the other slots (2,4-5), is it possible for them to select the same defenses as their opponents, i.e. can both alliances choose the Rough Terrain for Category D? I could not find anything that prevents this.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

I believe that that would be correct. But about the audience selection I am unaware weather or not is specifies.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Check out 5.5.10 in the Game Manual, it has information regarding DEFENSES.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

someone look at the game manual. apparently the moat is 2ft. deep.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

game manual confirms, page 13.

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I am guessing that it is a typo.

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Look at 2.2.2.10 in the Game Manual, there is a drawing with the dimensions.

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Can a defense be broken in autonomous mode? ::ouch::

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

I have read this section, along with section 2.2.2.1. I am fairly confident in my first statement, but not the second. I looked through the figures in the manual and none have the defenses repeated.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

You should check page 31. A defense can be damaged (please use the correct term so that searches will pull this post up as a result in the future) if two different robots cross it in autonomous.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Section 3.1.3 of the Game Manual has the information you seek.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

We had a quick question regarding the towers,

If the tower has been weakened to 0, if a robot shoots an additional Boulder at the tower, and it goes into a goal, does the alliance still gain points?

If the tower has been weakened, will the points from the balls still continue?

Thanks, and looking forward to this amazing game :)

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

on the diagram on page 3, section 1.2 (same image is also on Page 8, section 2) , it shows the audience selected items one to the right of the center. On page 100 however (5.5.10.1) it says that it belongs in the center outer works spot. Am i correct in saying that the pictures in question are in error?

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

What diagram are you talking about? Can you give a figure number?

The audience selected item goes in slot 3, which is the center defense. Because of the secret passage, the center defense is not in the center of the field.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Figure 2-1. By center i mean the center of the 5 outer works, or spot 3. In Figure 2.1 it shows the audience selected one in Position 4/2.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Double check section 3.1.4 and section 3.3.1 of the Game Manual.

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

Can you damage your own defense by using it to cross into the neutral zone instead of the secret passage, and if so can you find a rule that states this?

Re: FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion
 

FYI, the figure titles are hyphenated, I couldn't find it by using the find function and 2.1.

How do you know which ones are audience selected? The text does not tell you.

If I understand the audience selection process correctly than the same defense should be used on both sides, there is no defense repeated expect for the low bar.