Low vs. High robot poll
 

Is your team going to go under the low bar?

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

there's no poll

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

First time doing a poll. Sorry. It's there now

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

I think due to the fact that the low bar is 100% guaranteed to be there the entire time, it would be hindering your abilities if you didn't. You would need to guarantee the ability to traverse nearly any defense if you weren't at least making the robot capable.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

Interesting..... There are definitely pluses to going under the low bar, but it has negatives as well... Likely, such robots are going to be rather short - a disadvantage when shooting at the high goal - especially when facing a defender... Any device designed to grab the high bar for scaling the tower wall will have to have a longer reach... Etc.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

The results really surprised me actually.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

Many people are saying low, but I disagree, your robot should not be very high for center of gravity reasons, but a low robot really limits your building space and your ability to do missions. Also a low robot may be at a disadvantage when pushing doors and such such as the Sally Port and Draw Bridge. Your robot should be somewhere in between. It also depends on the skills of your team, if you are able to make a low robot that can achieve many things, go ahead but if you can't and you are doing it just for the low bar it is not worth it. But this is just my opinion.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

Teams should build the robot that best matches their goal, strategy, and capabilities, whether that's a tall robot, a low robot, or somewhere in between. Likewise for capabilities. Personally I'm not of the opinion that there is a general set of characteristics that will define the robots that win at regional events this year-- there are far too many valid strategies, some of which include going under the low bar, some of which don't involve many obstacles at all.

As always, teams have a tendency to overestimate their capabilities-- this year more than any other in recent memory making that mistake could cost a team dearly.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

It may be hard to shoot / climb and make it under the low bar let alone do other obstacles.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

I'm am of the opinion that if you choose to have your robot go under the low bar then that is a tactical/game theory choice made by your team to possible ignore several other aspects of the game. Here's what I mean, while not impossible, it would be very difficult for a robot to go under the low bar and still scale the tower at the end of a match. I came to this conclusion for a couple of reasons. First a short robot has much less space to work with when it come to implements that can be manipulated outside of the frame perimeter. Second any such extension that would come off the robot in order to get to the bar would be a very long stretch, in fact the difference is exactly 5 feet. From the 1'4" of the low bar to the 6'4" of the rung on the tower.

Additionally having a robot that could go under the low bar would be similarly hindered trying to lower the drawbridge or opening the sally port on their own. One of which is guaranteed to be on the field at all times.

Again a further limitation is imposed with the shortened list of possibilities for a high goal shooter that can fit under a 1'4" clearance. Not saying that it can't be done in fact I believe that it can and will be done this year; however, it does limit the possibilities somewhat.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

Low robots can be taller than the low bar and still go under if they assume a conformation that us low enough while crossing the low bar.
The largest compromise for choosing the low bar is you cannot also have a tall shooter. Tall shooters are much harder to block than short shooters.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

If the results of this poll stand true, expect a return of pool noodle blockers strapped to 3rd robots.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

Our team is actually working on a way to over come that. We've had a few designs and CADs passed around that might actually allow us to do both.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

Peacock robots?

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

Now, what would be interesting is to have a poll asking what teams are sacrificing in exchange for low bar capabilities.

The low bar is definitely a great strategy, and with a good enough drivetrain, you can get over all of the drivetrain-centric defenses (categories B and D).

My prediction is that a lot of low bar robots will be the 3rd pick at many regionals, and if these bots are able to run boulders to a courtyard shooter bot, then you have a solid team right there.

Can't wait till LA to see what the rookies and the veterans do.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

Wow I am amazed that 3/4 of the respondents are actually going to go for the low bar. Perhaps this will make the tall robots more valuable during alliance selections since I would think you only need one short bot per alliance.
Or maybe they will have modular robots and will only use a short conformation when they need to.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

It's pretty early in the week still...we haven't decided yet.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

Most shooter bots will want the low bar ability, as it's the quickest, most consistent way to get from the secret passage to the opponent's courtyard. Putting boulders in the tower is the one set of scoring without a pre-defined cap, so this will likely become important at mid-levels and critical at higher levels. If someone plays defense against you, sure, they'll go there first, but if you didn't have that as an option, they'd pick whatever was your fastest crossing.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

I've never seen the results of these polls be particularly accurate.... They are more fun than anything.... 3/4 of the respondents claim they are looking at a low-bar robot currently... How many will decide it doesn't fit their needs? How many are on the same team? How many are answering falsely? How many will try to put one out and fail? Even if these answers are being given truthfully and fairly, do the respondents even accurately represent the FRC community? etc.

Yup, we are considering a low bot. However, we are still prototyping and trying to figure out what configuration will best meet our primary objectives.... We have had tall robots every year since 2010....

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

This is such an important aspect of this game, and I'm surprised it hasn't seen more discussion of its own, especially predictions on when the turning point between breach metagame and capture metagame will occur. Personally, and this does not necessarily reflect the design decisions of my team, (I'll talk about that some other time, when there's actually a robot to show) I think a hybrid carry robot will be the most powerful machine this season. A bot that can solo 4 defenses, and throw in a few tower shots when it's convenient, and do a fast climb (<8 sec from touching the batter to full hang). As proven by the Ri3D teams, a bot with a decent drivetrain should be able to handle the B and D defenses without a problem. So, if you're making a hybrid carry robot, I see no reason why you wouldn't design it to fit under the low bar. Doing this would allow for three easy defenses, speeding up cycle time, thereby improving your viability at the highest levels of play. Is it challenging? Yes. Is it impossible? No.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

This is why we went with going for the low bar. We plan to have a barrel that can be lower than the horizontal side of our robot to more easily fit through the bar. My only concern is Madisons post on what size you actually need to be to fit through the low bar, and if we can do it with the Rhino Treads. and the shooter mechanism.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

3824 elected to try low bar for a few reasons. Most of it is related to competing at Palmetto this year (week 0).

1/ it's easy to make a small robot big, it isn't easy to make a big robot small. E.g. If it doesn't work, we can adapt easily.
2/ defenses are critical. If we had to knock out all defenses on our own, low bar is easier and faster than category C (dealing with week 0)
3/ build season stops at the end of your last tournament. Starting low makes it easier to adapt from regional to regional (compact design and low CG)

Most importantly we are testing Newtons 4th Law: all 3824 Robots will weigh 121 lbs on the night of bag and tag.

It would be cool to repeat the poll at week 6 to see what happens. That all said, watch for 3824's tall robot in Palmetto.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

Me too, those amounts really surprised me at aperture of 14" or so...but my game vision bot would have a ton of virtual help. A DEFENSE SPECIALIST that hangs low goals and can defend like a tank. Oh, it would be a tank. ow I want to see the poll on Supershooter specialist.

And will we see any un-wheeled shooters just sitting in the spybot position?

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

Doubtful. If you don't have another robot feeding you boulders, you're done at the end of auto.

Re: Low vs. High robot poll
 

I do believe that almost all winning alliances will have low robots, but I don't believe that it will be that common for a second pick to be relegated to boulder delivery. You may see it at higher profile events like ones in Texas, California, or Michigan, but the rest of the country will likely need all hands on deck in order to get the Breach and Capture bonuses.