Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

I agree with only having one coach.

Our coach currently is in charge of informing the drivers of the time and providing a general direction of what to do.

The match is too short to come up with overly-specific strategies. The drivers just need to react more than anything else.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

I disagree with people who disapprove of a second coach, saying it will create confusion for the drive team. Thhis is a problem easily faced by a well coordinated team, and can be safely expected of teams to handle. For example, the driver coach and strategy coach model seems very appropriate. It allows students to participate, and can only do as much harm as teams allow it to.
If your team doesn't need it, it doesn't use it. The same is true of having a single coach or a second driver now.

Please read http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...87&postcount=1

Space is a fair concern.
Anyone with a real argument against a second coach, please speak.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

OK To get things rolling onto the positive side

w/o me trying to bash the comments that were made

Question 1: what would the second coach be doing that the first coach hasn't already taken care of

Question 2: does this game really need that much of a strategy that 2 coaches are required to be on the field during a match

In 2001 Space was a BIG Concern only b/c it was 4 teams on one side per match, I think 2002 is when FIRST decided teams would be then placed diagnoally across from their opponents and it worked so well that FIRST kept it that way for 2003, In 2004 Teams were then placed directly across from one another and that worked well so FIRST kept it that way for 2005 and 2006 and I hope it stays like that through 2007 =)

Basically THERE Should be no reason to use space as an issue.

Back in 2002 when I was alternate driver for my old team - My teachers on the robotics team taught me one thing; during those 2 minutes the only communication your going to have w/ the drive squad is that 6th sense and that is you automatically know what your partner is going to do before they do it if you see them going for the goal you knew to be ready to fire that clamp and lock the goal in place till the match ended or unless told otherwise. During those 2 mintues you can't hear anyone standing behind you or even next to you, all you can do is watch the robots every move and be on your toes.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

I'd look at it at from a slightly different perspective.
2: Rather than requiring a second coach, it should only be an option; teams that don't think they'd benefit from it wouldn't use it.
1: While a second coach might not allow new duties to be made, there are several other possibilities. Already existing tasks can be distributed between the two. For example, one coach makes strategic decisions and the other communicates them to the drivers. (Some teams do instruct their drivers, so please no one assume that it is not possible to just because your team does not.) In some cases, the driver-coach is an adult because they can more effectively communicate to the drivers, while a student could quite often be the better choice for coaching strategy.
The largest benefit provided is that it would encourage student participation on the field if the second coach is mandated student-only.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

Ok I can agree with #2 it wouldn't be a bad idea if it were left to the teams as an option to have.

and for #1 well i still don't get why you would need a second coach to relay information when the 1st coach can just driectly communicate the order directly to the drive team. Is there an advantage to going through channels to find out information as opposed to getting it directly? If you said maybe give them a scorekeeping job for the team than i'd start to agree with you but i doubt it only b/c its hard to watch 3 active goals & be able to keep up with the flow of the match.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

I don't think that the game requires two coaches; one can handle the job by himself. Any extra, unnecessary people in the booth would just cause confusion. You also run into the very real possibility of conflicting orders.
Another thing I don't understand is why the coach, alone out of all of the drive team, is allowed to be an adult. It's mandatory for high school students to do all the other jobs. Does FIRST not think that we can handle it? I think that the entire drive team should be students. The goal of FIRST is to promote science and technology to students, not engineers.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

Ah, this thread is back again. When I saw the "statistician" in the kickoff video, I thought this meant another member on the drive team. Directing drivers, keeping track of what has actually been scored (particularly on the side of the rack that you can't really see), and yelling over to the other coaches to keep things coordinated will be a much heftier coaching task than in years past. It's similar to 2005 in this respect, but keeping track of the current state of the game takes more than just a glance. I'd welcome another team member in the box.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

I think this could be useful but not necessary. I think that instead of the Coach having to be really good at mental math, you could have a math guy as the second coach and be used as a statistician and help us choose where we wanted to place which ringer or spoiler for us to win the match. It is not necessary but it would definitely be useful and I doubt that any team would complain if they added it back.

Pavan.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

I think the idea of a statistician other than a coach might not be a bad idea like they hinted on the kickoff video, but having 6 drivers, 3 coaches, and 3 more strategists/coaches in one small alliance zone might be a bit too crowded.

Having the option of 2 coaches I think would be the best idea. High school students should also be allowed to coach, not just s.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

Agreed. That is why 118 by philosophy sends three students to the field and if there were two coaches I bet it would be a fourth student. I think that FIRST is mainly for the students and not as much for the mentors and engineers so students should do more work and the mentors should just help. This having been said, if the mentors were just calculating numbers and coaching where would students learn anything?

Pavan.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

I always thought it would be best if Mentors stayed out of the box. I think the team captain and/or the team tactician should be the 'leaders.' Part of FIRST is about teaching real life skills. Managing/leadership is a real life skill. As a mentor I supposedly have these skills already. I want the students on the team to learn them - and practice makes perfect.

On Team 255 (2000 Champs) we carried this philosophy to the extreme. After week one of build no 'adult' was allowed to touch the robot with a tool in their hand.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

I would be in favor of it for this year. Espically if the other coach could be positioned not behind the alliance zone but I know that is very much wishful thinking. I don't think the second coach would be needed every year but I do like the second coach being a student.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

I don't know if this has been said yet, but, *what if* there was 1 coach from each team, and one nominated coach from those 3 teams who overlooks those 3 coaches?
Sort of like a president of a company, who looks over his/her vice presidents, who look over their employees. A sort of hiearchy...so that there could be more interaction between the 3 bots, and still, one person could have the final say. "There can only be one Captain to a ship"

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

While a novel idea, due to the time constraints in making decisions during an FRC match, I'm not sure how well this would work when implemented.

Re: What if FIRST changed back to 2 coaches?
 

That's true, but it would help to have one person in case one of the team's robots breaks down, or something.

Instead of the two other teams having to think about what they do next, this person has already developed a plan, while the other 2 coaches are still executing the previous plan while the head coach comes up with a new plan for a few seconds (as someone previously mentioned, the coach just keeps the pressure off the driver; all the driver does is drive).

It'd be more of a passive role, I guess, until it's really needed.

But, I see your point in the idea too, and completely agree with you. However, depending on how good of a strategist (is that a word??) the head coach is, this plan could work really well