Passing the boulder
 

I'm sorry if im repeating myself from the other threads but I did not see anything on any rules if we are allowed to pass the boulder to another robot on the same alliance once you breech the outerworks? So basically can you have another robot feed you the boulders as long as they breech the outerworks? Sorry if i am repeating but I could not find anything on this.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Bobby Hudock
Co-build leader
Team 4601 Canfield Circuitbirds

Re: Passing the boulder
 

The boulder rules have nothing to do with breaching. The pertinent rules only talk about how boulders may legally enter the opponents courtyard. Once they're in the courtyard, you can do about whatever you want with them, including passing them to a teammate that may have started the match in the opponent's courtyard and never left it. If they anything specific you're confused on with the boulder rules?

Re: Passing the boulder
 

You didn't see any rules against it, did you?

I don't see much use for it, because getting a boulder into your robot, while you're on the opposing courtyard, is not a trivial task. It seems to me that it would be more useful to score the boulder in the low goal, than to give up possession.. If your robot is able to pass it to another robot, you could just as easily "pass" it to the goal, eh?

Points per unit time....

Re: Passing the boulder
 

That basically answers our question of once your into the courtyard you can do whatever you want with the boulder. Thank you!

Bobby Hudock
Team 4601 Canfield Circuitbirds

Re: Passing the boulder
 

There is a benefit to passing to a bot that can reliably shoot the high goal.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

Maybe. Depends on how long it takes them to fetch their next boulder and what defenses they can cross. If it takes you both the same amount of time to fetch and score, then you're probably better off scoring individually, since they won't have to wait for your pass, you won't have to wait for them to shoot, and there's no extra delay for the pass to happen.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

"......you can do about whatever you want with them...."

Except of course launch them outside the field intentionally.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

There is always the fear for low goal robots to get trapped on the batter which would slow down cycle time as well.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

Or wedge a DEFENSE open, or damage them, or...

Re: Passing the boulder
 

I don't know...If I have an accurate supershooter alliance partner that is hitting all high and easy as pie in the zone parked 11' from the tower lets say, and all I can do is accurately deliver low goal (because my particular personal vision bot is the DEFENSES SPECIALIST....And we can easily mate up and transfer the ammunition easily on a pass.....I'm handing off (and defending him for the shot if necessary), if not, I can be halfway back by the time the shot clears, it is worth 1.50 times the low goal score (5 points vs 2 points X # of cycles we can complete together). I (together w/ trusty LOW BAR SPECIALIST), need to keep him supplied w/ ammunition so he can complete that task of damaging the Tower and complete my task of BREACHING & grabbing that starting RP.

My ideal ideation of a Courtyard Supershooter has more than 1 boulder collector method/entry so single robot defense against it receiving the pass is not going to be quite as effective.

When we built our Rebound Rumble Robot, we built in both front and rear collection points and the ability to reverse the feed so we could intake front and rear and operate them independently of each other (but as a stream), and intake rear from 1 robot, expel same balls from the front. We could actually sit in the middle of the auto assembly line and both of us fed our balls straight to a shooter partner who then shot them all center high and nobody moved.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

An in depth look at how you may pass through the outer works without crossing, or violating the rules. Say you have a passing robot and a receiving robot.

The passing robot is partly in the neutral zone and partly in the outer works.
The receiving robot is partly in the courtyard, and partly in the outer works.

Rule G40 states A ROBOT may not cause a BOULDER to move from the NEUTRAL ZONE into the opponent’s COURTYARD unless...

There is no rule about causing a Boulder to move solely from the neutral zone into the outer works.
[This is the rule-legal task of the Passing robot]

There is also no rule about causing a boulder to move solely from the outer works into the courtyard.
[This is the rule-legal task of the Receiving robot]

Because the receiving bot manipulates the boulder within the outer works, it is the cause of the boulder entering the opposing courtyard, and thus, the passing bot is not the cause of a BOULDER mov[ing] from the NEUTRAL ZONE into the opponent’s COURTYARD
Under these conditions, the pass is in compliance of rule G40.

G41 also states that during each CROSSING, a ROBOT may not cause more than one (1) BOULDER to move from the NEUTRAL ZONE into the opponent’s COURTYARD. Because neither robot ever has to cross (you only have to CROSS because of rule G40) , they can pass as many boulders as they want, with no limit.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

Andy, I'd ask Q&A about that one. Occasionally, the letter and the spirit of the rules aren't on speaking terms. This appears to be one of those cases.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

I'll add to this:

In general, is it illegal for a robot to pick up a boulder from the OUTER WORKS from the COURTYARD's side, therefore not qualifying as a valid CROSSING?

For example, a stray boulder gets stuck in the ROUGH TERRAIN, or perhaps more contentiously, a bowl from the human player to (through) the LOW BAR?

Re: Passing the boulder
 

As the rules stand, no. You only need to cross in order to get the ball from the neutral zone to the opponents courtyard.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

You can also pass a boulder from the Outworks (that you got from the Neutral Zone) as long as you end up in the courtyard. There is no rule that requires you to hold onto the boulder until you reach the courtyard. Only that, if the boulder ends up in the courtyard, the robot must also eventually end up in the courtyard (with our without the boulder).

Re: Passing the boulder
 

Even if you never enter the NEUTRAL ZONE (similar to your "receiving bot", COURTYARD -> OUTER WORKS -> COURTYARD?

I'm imagining a scenario where a > 14" bot can put its intake under the low bar and a HP bowls them a ball. I'm not questioning its strategic value, but whether that would be legal under the rules (or "spirit" of the rules).

Re: Passing the boulder
 

We identified a similar strategy with a low robot that can cross under the bar. It might be easy to block its shots, but there's a good chance nobody will bother to play defense. Using a tall robot would be much harder to defend.

It seems legal (at the moment!) to hold open the low bar's Cordura flap while in a shooting position. The robot doesn't even have to move between shots. It can be fed from the human player station or with passes from a robot in the neutral zone. I really hope this strategy is clearly ruled out because it seems against the spirit of all the crossing and outer works rules.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

This violates G40, if you are parked in the OUTWORKS and do not complete the CROSSINg before shooting. If your HUMAN PLAYER can get the BOULDER onto the OUTERWORKS, you can take it from there, move into the COURTYARD and SHOOT.

Depending on how you are holding the flap open (perhaps with an extension) you would be violating G40-1.

The intent from the Q&A is very clear. ROBOTS have to CROSS the OUTERWORKS controlling the BOULDER, to move the BOULDER into a potential scoring position (touching the COURTYARD carpet).

Re: Passing the boulder
 

I posted that message before the rule clarification. Also, my wish came true: they clearly made the strategy illegal. ;)

It'd be cool to have trusted moderators to mark posts as obsolete so that stuff that people min-max or brainstorm that becomes illegal can be clearly marked as no longer relevant.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

I think the First made it a Ref'ing nightmare.

With Q603, where the boulder came from makes a difference.

Let's say that Red Robot shoots the high goal, and misses. The Boulder rolls and comes to rest in the Outer Works. That boulder is free to be picked up and shot again. Meanwhile, Blue inbounds a boulder, and it is somehow blocked and rolls around in the courtyard. The inbounded boulder is closer to Red Robot, so it goes for that boulder.

The Ref's will somehow have to keep track of which Boulders in the Outer Works have successfully crossed, and which ones have not.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

So that BOULDER was never in the NEUTRAL ZONE, correct? Then G40 doesn't apply.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

Sorry I started complicating things with Q588. Q588 and Q603 seem to indicate that the LAST robot to touch a BOULDER moving into an opponent's courtyard but complete an entire CROSSING. It's true that it seems to only apply to BOULDERS that start in the NEUTRAL ZONE. That's a bit confusing and would be a lot of work for refs. Anyone want to see if the GDC wants to amend things slightly to cover moving a ball from the OUTER WORKS to the COURTYARD? That'd make reffing easier. Though it'd open a new avenue for defense, since a defender would just have to get the BOULDER to stay in the OUTER WORKS to cause a headache.

Re: Passing the boulder
 

Those 2 questions show how the GDC is closing a potential loophole. They clarified (redefined?) that to successfully move a BOULDER from NEUTRAL ZONE to COURTYARD, some ROBOT has to make a successful CROSSING, and that ROBOT will be defined as the one that completes the BOULDER's journey.

However, that only applies to BOULDERS that did not start in the COURTYARD or SECRET PASSAGE. If Blue inbounds a ball through the BRATTICE or EMBRASURE and Red grabs the BOULDER, G40 does not apply to Red.