Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

The Tortuga will haunt you.....:D

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Woo 2200, 179, and 4847 just set the world high score at 114.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Were these all the 2nd option during selection? It would be interesting to track how often this happens. I would figure the 2nd option might be chosen more than the 1st, since the audience knows how loud they have to yell to win.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Team Mittens!!!

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

But actually though. ~1:30 for 1296 to bust all the defenses solo in Q33?

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

That was pretty impressive.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Look like an ample amount of room for improvement as well. I could easily see them sub 1 minute in a few matches.

-Brando

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

This is an interesting point. Currently it is leaning towards the 2nd option.

Cheval, Ramparts, and Rough Terrain are all second. Sally Port was first.



Cheval just won again as the audience selection. It's currently undefeated in audience selection

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

For still being relatively early in a first week event the amount of penalty free matches is encouraging for what the rest of the year might bring.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Another one for the 2nd option; Cheval de Frise was just picked (interestingly enough. I would think teams wouldn't want it to break again...)

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

It also broke for part of the morning and now you need two of them in every match for 10 straight matches. Odds at least one breaks again?

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

This has me somewhat concerned. I've seen penalties go uncalled this morning. Nothing very serious but definitely some fouls.

However, the amount of contact has generally been minimized. So those type of fouls aren't likely.

-Bernie

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

How does an alliance earn 42 defense points?....

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

2 is a REACH if auto is included in the total.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Yet another dislodged defense. As if they weren't far enough behind schedule.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Thanks, I forgot the reach...

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Can I make a point? There are numbers on the bumpers so teams/people can easily see who it is and such. Should we use those numbers when doing play by play instead of team names and robot nicknames?

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

pardon my ignorance... which website are they uploading to?

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

I would prefer that...

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Lots of broken and stuck bots. Wowzer.

Agreed.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

I have seen very few tower captures or high goal shots at all. It'll be interesting to see how the game dynamics change when the boulders start flying.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Which Palmetto are you watching? :P There haven't been any captures yet because it seems scoring 8 boulders is much more difficult that expected. Lowest health I've seen a tower at is 1, in match 22.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

I should clarify, very few high goal shots and no captures. I've only been able to watch ~15 matches because of class and things, so I didn't want to confirm/deny any absolutes about the event. It certainly does seem harder than expected to score, though obviously that will change as we get further into the season. I have also noticed, however, that the field seems pretty dimly lit on the webcast. I wonder if is drastically affecting camera feeds and vision tracking for drivers (not that this is what is causing the low boulder scores).

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

What a crazy chain of events today.
Instead of robots going back to the pit for repairs, its the game elements after almost every match. :ahh:

For our regional, looks like we need a pit for the Game Elements Team 9999!

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

There have been plenty of High Goal Shots in fact its about even or more than Low goal Shots

As for Challenges quite a few

Auto seems 30 is the high 3 bots crossing saw one match where it was 30/30

Scaling is fairly rare

Lots of stuck broken or frozen bots

Flags too happen often enough most for walking over defenses

Match 52 RED almost captured so close...down to 1 strength all three bots challenge with one having a boulder could not pop it in.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

It's interesting that many teams seem very focused on defeating the defenses and just ignore the tower till the 4 defenses are down.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

There have been a lot of G5 Yellow Cards handed out today. Teams really need to be careful, and know that they can only use the Secret Passage to get between the gates and the middle of the field.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Q56 - Blue team got the red tower to -3!!!

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

The extra RP from breaching is key. Until alliances can capture a tower reliably (or at all for that matter), goal scoring really only serves the purpose of padding the victory margin. Winning is important, don't get me wrong and breaching itself adds a fair amount of points to your score...

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

One team is able to earn the Ranking Point on their own by breaching the defenses, where it requires all 3 robots to earn the Ranking Point for a captured tower.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Triple Tortuga for Red in that last match, Q58.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

I'm wondering how they got into that tent formation... :ahh:

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Can we get a ruling on that? What was up with the other bot not actually only the drawbridge?

If its a true Triple T, who would have though the first one would happen on the SAME Defense?! Stronghold is an awesome and crazy game.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

They all three followed each other through the drawbridge from the courtyard. Number one (6222) died getting rammed from behind. Number three (4748) got stuck sideways in the gate. Number two (4823) tried to push number three back into the courtyard and ended up tenting. At least that's the way I saw it at 240p.

NOPE: There is video over at the Tortuga Contest thread which shows what really happened... I was close, but not exact. 4823 went through first, followed by 6222 then 4748. 6222 appeared to be pinned by the drawbridge. Too funny.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

It was cool seeing the robots compete for the first time at an actual regional! A lot of interesting things happened. There's no doubt this is going to be an eventful year :)

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

With what appears to be the end of Day 1, I have compiled all the match results into a spreadsheet, found here. I've computed winner and looser averages, and percentiles as well. The only thing I haven't captured are the breach totals. (The capture total for today: 0)

So far, the average score appears to be 59 for the whole field, 70 for the winning alliances, and 45 for the loosing alliances.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Not a single tower was captured from what I saw.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

It is much, much easier to drive over something than to pick up and score a high goal, and they are worth the same number of points. It is also much easier to get the breaching ranking point than it is to get the capture ranking point.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Does anyone have a picture from the driver station showing the visibility of the field? I think it would be helpful to all of us to see a worst-case scenario (including Porticullus) so that we can judge the sight problems that a lot of us have been a little worried about.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Did I just walk in on a Turing test?

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Best of luck to all the teams!

I'm really grateful for the webcast, it makes our scout training possible. Unfortunately it is harder for the scouts when the camera keeps moving, is anyone recording from a static, full field camera? If so, when will the recording be uploaded?

Many Thanks!

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

While I don't have a picture, I can say that visibility was a major issue for our team. Some of our defense selection was based just on visibility. The main problem is the category C defenses, especially the drawbridge. The portcullis wasn't too bad because it is partially transparent. What surprised me was that more teams weren't using their human player as a spy to help navigate while in the opponent's courtyard. Hand signals were really helpful. And a camera is basically a necessity for this game.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

If your robot is short you can't see it behind the Sally port let alone the other tall defenses.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

That was painfully close. We were a little left on our low goal shot. I think someone will capture before qualifications end.

In general, this game is fun to play but a wee bit rough on robots. The field itself has also taken a beating - especially the Cheval de Frise. These robots can easily overpower the polycarb. I believe FIRST is looking into reinforcement options.

I know a lot of people are curious about line of sight. My advice is to choose your defense wisely. We stick with all low defenses. They are still hard for most robots and field visibility in greatly improved. With two drawbridges and two portcullis gates, you can't even see the timer clock on the other end.

The clear barriers between the defenses and on the batter are very tough to see. Lots of folks hitting or getting stuck on these shields.

The wood defenses don't give you a good indication of how the re,al field reacts. To me, the Cheval de Frise, Rough Terrain, and Moat are tougher. The Portcullis is much easier.

Saturday is going to be interesting. Not too much defensive play yet. Elimination rounds

David

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

For sure tomorrow we should be able to see a capture in elims, but yeah definitely tougher than imagined. With coordination before matches with your alliance members it certainly is possible to capture the tower (and today there were so many times were it was so close..)

Week 1 should be better with captures but IMO, I don't think it'll be that noticeably better. This week 0.5 regional should give many teams the strategical ideas they need for quals matches during week 1, but again the challenge of breaching, capturing, and winning is overwhelming and will require a load of luck for it to happen during quals.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

I think the strategy for teams that are capable of scoring boulders is damaging a defense every two cycles. In practice we ran 8 cycles in a timed practice period with a defensive robot (most ideal situation with a boulder sitting just outside the low bar - not in the same spot every time, though).

One robot can rack up a lot of points in a match by themselves if they follow this plan. Score a boulder, run under the low bar to grab a boulder, then cross a defense. 10 point cycles. If a robot is capable of doing 8 cycles, that's 80 points in tele-op by themselves.

I understand that there won't be many robots that can do this, but if you look at teams like 179 at this event, they could most definately get close to doing something similar. Especially in the right alliance.

Most teams are just focusing on the defenses at the moment. Remember, this is a week 0.5 event. A lot of teams tend to learn from regionals and make changes when it's their turn to compete, especially for teams that attend multiple regionals/district events.

I'm sure we will see a tower capture once every few matches in the coming weeks.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

I'm curious if any teams at Palmetto are using 'birds eye' view cameras as a part of their driver stations? (Tall poles with a camera mounted on it)

It would seem that it could help the visibility problem in certain situations but we don't have a full field to test this against.

This game looks crazy rough and it's not even week 1 yet. Can't wait to see how our robot holds up.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

This is the most logical sequence that I envision teams would be doing. Less wasted motion and accomplishing both at once.
Unless of course if youre like Team 118 that can Dukes of Hazard just about anything. No need come back via the low bar, other than not trying to wear out your robot.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

I think the main reason that teams aren't relying on this strategy is that they want to guarantee that they will get the ranking point for breaching. Picking up and scoring boulders can take some time. It's better to at least get the one ranking point for breaching rather than attempting to get two/getting extra points for scoring boulders but risking getting no ranking points at all. At least at Palmetto, if you can breach, the points you get for crossing defenses is usually enough to get you the win.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

It seems like a "defense agreement" would be beneficial to both sides. For ease of visibility, only choose low defenses.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

I know this has happened several times with my team.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

You may wish to view Q804.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Interested to see what the alliance strategies will be this afternoon after quals.....

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

No agreement or collusion necessary. Select the defenses that most benefit you (the ones that let you see). Wow, your opponent did the same thing! Probably because they went through the same thought process and it's worth doing even if your opponent doesn't do it too!

When people talk about "X Agreement" in FRC, they're talking about prisoner's dilemma situations. This is not one of those.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

179 just died after auto but their partners won the match and breached anyways!!!!:ahh:

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

We asked on the FRC Q&A if this was legal. They said it was so we're going to be doing this. It helped our drivers in practice tremendously.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

342 dead on field
Programming had their test board on during 2 matches and the drive station was still connected to test board router....:ahh: lesson learned!

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

In FIRST STRONGHOLD, ALLIANCES are expected to to fortify their OUTER WORKS. Working with your opponent to mutually select 'easier' DEFENSES does not fortify your OUTER WORKS. Selecting optimal DEFENSES that fortify your OUTER WORKS, both type and placement, with imperfect knowledge of your opponent's capabilities, is a skill. The approach you are asking about does not engage that skill, is playing beneath your ability, and a violation of T7 and T8.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

5327 just shut down 179 for a solid 30-40 seconds. Defense is going to play a huge role in the playoffs.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

So... The blue alliance chat is through twitch. Is the streaming through twitch as well? If so, what is the twitch channel for this event? I'm trying to watch mobile. I can in the twitch app. Just not on TBA gameday. Thanks.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

The webcast is streaming through Ustream. TBA just embeds the stream on the GameDay page. The twitch chat is the TBA GameDay chat.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Then what is the Ustream channel? Thanks

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Alliance Selection Results
1. 0179 - 4451 - 1369
2. 1296 - 3824 - 4533
3. 1758 - 1876 - 4073
4. 2172 - 2252 - 0237
5. 2200 - 0120 - 2386
6. 4547 - 0343 - 2614
7. 4823 - 1102 - 2187
8. 2393 - 3490 - 0283

No declines.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Oh neat. We're allowed to call in picks this year.

179 and 4451 is a strong pairing, could see some tower captures if both have their shooters dialed in

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

#phonegate

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

OPR for fun:

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

4 seed second pick is 0237, not 3490

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Will Playoffs begin at 1:30? (Schedule says so...)

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

That's what they announced on the stream.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Thanks, fixed

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

How do playoffs work ?

Semi schedule already posted? (from TBA)
Quarters 1 Match 1 4451 179 1369 3490 2393 283 Sat 10:30 AM
Quarters 1 Match 2 2252 2172 237 120 2200 2386 Sat 10:37 AM
Quarters 1 Match 3 3824 1296 4533 1102 4823 2187 Sat 10:44 AM
Quarters 1 Match 4 1876 1758 4073 343 4547 2614 Sat 10:51 AM
Quarters 1 Match 5 4451 179 1369 3490 2393 283 Sat 11:01 AM
Quarters 1 Match 6 2252 2172 237 120 2200 2386 Sat 11:08 AM
Quarters 1 Match 7 3824 1296 4533 1102 4823 2187 Sat 11:15 AM
Quarters 1 Match 8 1876 1758 4073 343 4547 2614 Sat 11:22 AM
Semifinals <------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ????
Semis 1 Match 1 4451 179 1369 3490 2393 283 Sat 11:35 AM
Semis 1 Match 2 2252 2172 237 120 2200 2386 Sat 11:42 AM
Semis 1 Match 3 3824 1296 4533 1102 4823 2187 Sat 11:49 AM
Match times are approximate and are in your local timezone
Semis 1 Match 4 1876 1758 4073 343 4547 2614 Sat 11:56 AM

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Looks like a TBA bug. The FIRST page doesn't have that: http://frc-events.usfirst.org/2016/SCMB/playoff

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Its 1:38EST whats up?

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Webcast is back up. Audience Selection for QF Defenses going on now.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Yup. And it's been fixed. We forgot to stop assuming the 2015 playoff structure

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

We had our first capture last match with the #5 alliance.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Can you please post a link to the specific Q&A question for this? It would be greatly apprieciated!

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

I think Q890 and Q851 are the two you're looking for. Hope this helps.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

If every regional has a 1369 then Stronghold is going to be a ridiculously fun game. They are absolutely shutting down the opposing alliances.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Well, if we learned one thing today, it is to be careful with 775s

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

But they can't go under the low bar! :eek: :ahh:

;)

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Not to mention that they were picked last:ahh:

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Never underestimate people's ability to underestimate.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Can anyone who is out there in Palmetto give an estimate on the boulders' condition at different points through the competition?
Do they make sure to only keep the ones that are in good condition, or did you end up with really worn out boulders in the final stages of the competition?

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Final results:

1. 0179 - 4451 - 1369 W
2. 1296 - 3824 - 4533 SF
3. 1758 - 1876 - 4073 QF
4. 2172 - 2252 - 0237 QF
5. 2200 - 0120 - 2386 SF
6. 4547 - 0343 - 2614 F
7. 4823 - 1102 - 2187 QF
8. 2393 - 3490 - 0283 QF

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

And Red won with them sitting still all through the last final match....

Great regional!

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

We are waiting for this info as well! If someone in Palmetto can provide us how they managed this, we appreciate!

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

interesting match. a lot of defensive plays.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Palmetto teams great job!

Hey can someone there give us a summary of things you learned that you did not know going in... just an overall REAL vs theoretical breakdown. Like what was easier/harder, challenges and did human players have any significant effect.

Also what penalties were called most?

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Take away from tournament, expect lots of repairs. Bring epoxy, loctite, duct tape, bailing wire, spit... Most brutal competition I've seen

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

DO NOT STEP OVER THE DEFENSES WHEN SETTING UP YOUR ROBOT.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Maybe I missed something. Can you please explain this statement?

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Seriously though, so many yellow cards.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

(Won't let me post the image from mobile so here's the link)

http://imgur.com/JZnnWgx

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

1296's robot started smoking twice during Palmetto eliminations.. so it seems like the smoke was coming from the 775 motors.

Re: Palmetto Regional Week 0.5
 

Can someone explain the defense situation against 179 for me? I was at work and was unable to watch the stream.

From what I've gathered, they were stopped by a tall robot.

Is 179 able to shoot from the batter? I don't think you can really be defended well if your robot can score into the high goal from the batter. IIRC, 179 was trying to use vision tracking to lock on to the goals and then shoot from any orientation in the courtyard.