Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

The COTS thread got me thinking, has anyone ever used any babbitt bearings on an FRC robot?

Here's a video explaining the process, for those of you without ancient technology in your life.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

I know people used to use some bronze bearings but I've never seen anybody go that far. Seems like a lot of work given that we're not repairing, just making from new.
I would be interested in seeing how well they work though. I can definitely see a few applications for them.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Yea, I went to school with Isaac. :rolleyes: Except that we didn't have rock and roll on the radio when we poured the bearings.

I worked on some old farm equipment that had it. But once you get to the point that you are going to mill some to support the new bearing you just mill out for ball bearings and be done with it.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

We're hoping to use leather for bearings in at least one part of our robot this year....

There are poured babbitt bearings, and insert babbitt bearings, and probably a few other kinds. I have worked on a few old engines that had poured babbitt connecting rod bearings. They're fun. I think my 70 year old lathe has poured babbitt spindle bearings.

But mostly, we're using ball bearings in our robot.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Babbitt is great for relatively low speed, high-precision bearings. It does not have the high-speed capabilities of ball or roller bearings, but because it can be poured (and fit the shaft with under 1/10,000" clearance) it keeps the shaft in place with zero runout and play. Great for a lathe. Awful if the shaft is subject to shock (Babbitt is soft) and cannot be very well and continuously lubricated - so not so good for FRC applications. Many babbitt alloys contain lead, and are toxic if mishandled.

If ball bearings are not workable, the next option is oilite bushings, followed by brass bushings. Leather is an excellent option for certain applications, and can be superior to ball bearings.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

I've always thought that babbitt was only usable in wet oiled conditions (like the rod/crank/cam bearings in an engine), as the the metals softness allowed proper oil flow via microscopic cracks. Since liquid lubricants are not allowed (and heavy), Babbitt isn't really a usable material.

That said, bronze bushings (with impregnated lubrication) are nice for low speed applications (arms, etc.).

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

I watched that 3 times. Not for educational purposes - just to be amazed at what a great machinist and artist is capable of.

Did you see his arsenal of tools? That is a great man!

Holy crap - thank you for that great video!

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Check out his other videos. His lathe is something like 10 ft between centers and 4 or so inches through the head stock. He also has quite a large arbor press.

Babbit bearings would be super cool, but in FRC, they dont make sense when roller bearings and bronze sleeve bearings are so cheap in the sizes we use.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Over the years I have seen one or two. The teams had a mentor or a sponsor that were familiar with the concept. As I remember I saw them at a Michigan regional event.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

I wanted to use this on the robot this year, but we won't be able to make the weight limit :-(

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

I figured there would be a car guy somewhere in the past 20 years that would do it.

I like your style Brian. I brought a Model A wheel to our kickoff meeting, but sadly (to me) the team opted for Rhino Tank Drive instead of 40 glorious horsepower of rear wheel drive.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

so how many of us car guys are here? :)

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Quite a few, including me

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

After following the link, it seems that a Babbit Bearing is really a bushing made of a special alloy. We are considering bushings on two of our limited-angle manipulators for simplicity, but if that doesn't work out, we're going with ball bearings.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Guilty......................

Nice avatar Ian!

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

The boat does not leave me any time to work on the car. :rolleyes:

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

I am not practicing but I am a muscle car lurker. My dream car is a 1969, Midnight Blue, Plymouth Road Runner with 426 Hemi and Hurst Four Speed. My dad and two brothers are/were mechanics so it is in my blood. I don' mind getting dirty.
I was always fascinated on the history and power of the MoPar 318 block. It made great power as a stock engine.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Total Ford guy here.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Imports ftw. :D

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

say, did you get a chance to look at the FIRST Robots Behind the Design book that was in the KOP?

There's an import car pictured in there, in front of a 58 Chevy wagon. I learned to drive in that import. Later, I rebuilt the whole car. Name the import....

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

There is one here.... :)

Mostly old muscle cars and Top Alcohol Dragsters and Funny Cars. Have thrown away more squished rod bearings over the years that I can care to count.....

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

My whole family's blood runs blue. Ford all the way.

Currently drive a 1960 f100.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Chevy guys need to speak up!!!

1969 Camaro, my first car, still in the garage.

1966 Corvette, also in the garage. Dad bought it new and it was our Mom's grocery getter when we were kids. It has a 427/425, 4-speed with 4.11's and side pipes. I knew when she was coming to pick me up at school before she was at the school. ;)

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

The brand of preference doesn't really matter in the long run.

To each his or her own, there's plenty of room for everyone to partake. For the record we have at least one of each of the "big 3" IF you count my wifes mini-van. ;)

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

We have a Ford now too....along with a couple mopars, several Chevys, and an import (my wife's auto-x car). None of them have poured babbitt bearings.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

I did not. :( If you could post the image so I could see it? :D

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

here it is

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Currently have 3 old Fords with Babbitt bearings. '28, '29 & '30. Two of them are shall we say, a tad less than stock engine wise. But the primary running gear remains fairly stock. Mechanical brakes and all.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

I probably should've defined what kind of imports. I know a lot more about JDM than I do European.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Volvo?

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Sure does look like it.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

I used a babbit bearing recently for professional stuff, part of the reason we didn't use a ball bearing was because of the size of the thing.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#6359k22/=10volie
that's the bearing we used! :)

On the last FRC bot I worked on, we used bronze sleeve bearings for the wheel shafts, which were running mecanums! Robot still runs perfect nearly 6 years later

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Roger.

http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum...rescue-mission

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Was your mom's first name 'Shirley'? This certainly is not a typical soccer mom vehicle.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Large stationary engines (if you count ships & trains, semi stationary) typically have poured Babbitt bearings. Most car & motorcycle motor have insert Babbitt bearing. As long as you keep the oil flow, the bearing and shafts do not actually touch. Hydrodynamic layer and all that. MEs spend a lot of class time on that. In the end it is really a bunch of Voodoo.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

when our kids were real young, I had the blown LS-7 in my 59 pickup. It was fun taking them to day care....

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Her name was Sharon, but she had a friend named Shirley... :)

Just looked over on my desk and see that I have a Babbitt lined bearing in one my paperweights.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Unless the soccer field was only a quarter mile away.....


There was a time when poured Babbitt was commonly used throughout the automotive industry. Inserts became a better choice when oiling systems improved.


My guess is that you may have been the envy of some of the other parents

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

One of the first engines I overhauled was a 1953 Chevy 235, which was the last year they used poured rod bearings. The bearings were still ok, so I just adjusted the clearance using the shims. I was 16 at the time, I think. Those engines used insert main bearings, but they also had shims to adjust the clearance.

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

I'm a bit of a muscle guy as well. Helped my grandpa build his drag car (1000hp '69 Vega set up for a 250 shot) :yikes:

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Passes everything but a filling station?

Re: Babbitt Bearings in FRC
 

Pretty much...and that picture was taken 500 miles from home, I drove it to California.