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-   -   Gear Teeth Clearance (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142662)

Michael Hill 08-04-2016 15:58

Re: Gear Teeth Clearance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1569654)
I know the additional .006" is some fudge factor, effectively trading gear life for less friction in operation. But the number I'd learned from oral tradition* is .003" or so. What are the benefits of adding the extra distance?

*Even before I learned this from other FIRSTers, I knew a variation on this from racing R/C vehicles, which have a similar opinion of gear life vs. speed**; there, the conventional wisdom is to run a piece of paper between your pinion and spur gears to ensure "proper" spacing--and a piece of paper is about .002" thick.

**If you haven't gathered from the "racing" part, they skew towards speed.

Extra distance will buy you more tolerance in manufacturing at the cost of more backlash. That said, .003" we usually use. Vex gears (the ones we usually get for custom gearboxes) are AGMA 11 quality, which means their total composite tolerance is < 0.001" for all gear sizes (http://www.americangearinc.com/quality.html). You could get away with 0.002" spacing, but you're leaving yourself with no tolerance for the manufacture of your gearbox plate. Our gearboxes are cut by either waterjet or CNC mill, so we can hold somewhat tight tolerances. However, Even if the waterjet was slightly out of tolerance, it's still probably fine because it (should) be unlikely that both gears are > 0.0007" too large. Additionally, you'll get a bit of wear that makes things run fairly smoothly.

C.Lesco 08-04-2016 16:44

Re: Gear Teeth Clearance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1569658)
Care to share what the original intent was or any details?

Yeah sure! Triwheels, Its actically the only thing that makes us not KOP sincethe space where our intake was going was shortened by 4 inches due to bumper crew misreading a rule. I have numerous pictures of the wheels on my cd file and media has uploaded numerous videos on our blue alliance of the wheels actually working. Check em if you wan. They're my babies <3

TheModMaster8 09-04-2016 12:11

Re: Gear Teeth Clearance
 
Take a paper towel or toilet paper and stick it between the teeth as you mesh them then remove the paper and you have the correct distance

C.Lesco 09-04-2016 14:21

Re: Gear Teeth Clearance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1569898)
Take a paper towel or toilet paper and stick it between the teeth as you mesh them then remove the paper and you have the correct distance

Actually an amazing tip thanks!

Michael Hill 09-04-2016 14:26

Re: Gear Teeth Clearance
 
If you want to do it like the old school clock makers, you could use a pinion head depthing tool: http://www.clickspringprojects.com/p...hing-tool.html (Also, I HIGHLY suggest subscribing to that guy's YouTube channel.)

Chris Fultz 09-04-2016 15:08

Re: Gear Teeth Clearance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1569654)
I know the additional .006" is some fudge factor, effectively trading gear life for less friction in operation. But the number I'd learned from oral tradition* is .003" or so. What are the benefits of adding the extra distance?

My error in that number. i meant .003" and i corrected my earlier post.

asid61 09-04-2016 20:44

Re: Gear Teeth Clearance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hill (Post 1569659)
Extra distance will buy you more tolerance in manufacturing at the cost of more backlash. That said, .003" we usually use. Vex gears (the ones we usually get for custom gearboxes) are AGMA 11 quality, which means their total composite tolerance is < 0.001" for all gear sizes (http://www.americangearinc.com/quality.html). You could get away with 0.002" spacing, but you're leaving yourself with no tolerance for the manufacture of your gearbox plate. Our gearboxes are cut by either waterjet or CNC mill, so we can hold somewhat tight tolerances. However, Even if the waterjet was slightly out of tolerance, it's still probably fine because it (should) be unlikely that both gears are > 0.0007" too large. Additionally, you'll get a bit of wear that makes things run fairly smoothly.

The Vex gears may be AGMA 11, but it looks like they make them with a huge root clearance (maybe somebody can confirm?). We've tested gears anywhere from -0.007" to +0.010" without issues, so we design with exact C-C to simplify the machining and design a bit.

Michael Hill 09-04-2016 21:10

Re: Gear Teeth Clearance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by asid61 (Post 1570054)
The Vex gears may be AGMA 11, but it looks like they make them with a huge root clearance (maybe somebody can confirm?). We've tested gears anywhere from -0.007" to +0.010" without issues, so we design with exact C-C to simplify the machining and design a bit.

I believe it's something like 0.503 hex rather than 0.500, so that buys you some tolerance depending on your hex stock. Unfortunately, nobody seems to want to publish much tolerance information other than "AGMA 11", so you can't really do any tolerance stackup analysis anyway. One can really only make reasonable assumptions.

Michael Hill 09-04-2016 21:13

Re: Gear Teeth Clearance
 
And by not publishing tolerance information, I'm talking the GD&T, where you'd actually know a tolerance for things like perpendicularity, concentricity and runout.

Cory 10-04-2016 05:00

Re: Gear Teeth Clearance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hill (Post 1570064)
And by not publishing tolerance information, I'm talking the GD&T, where you'd actually know a tolerance for things like perpendicularity, concentricity and runout.

Who cares? The gears are fantastic. The best you can buy on the market. VEX doesn't need to provide that info given that most people can't even check runout/perpendicularity (and definitely can't check concentricity). It's not going to change your design.

Michael Hill 10-04-2016 07:53

Re: Gear Teeth Clearance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1570198)
Who cares? The gears are fantastic. The best you can buy on the market. VEX doesn't need to provide that info given that most people can't even check runout/perpendicularity (and definitely can't check concentricity). It's not going to change your design.

I agree that they're great. All I'm saying is it's a lost cause to try to do real tolerance stackup analysis.

asid61 11-04-2016 22:08

Re: Gear Teeth Clearance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1570198)
Who cares? The gears are fantastic. The best you can buy on the market. VEX doesn't need to provide that info given that most people can't even check runout/perpendicularity (and definitely can't check concentricity). It's not going to change your design.

I've run into some issues with the tolerances on the tiny hubs on them while lightening a couple times, but apart from that I agree they are the best on the narket. Nowhere else can I find aluminum gears with hex bore for those amazing prices.


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