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-   -   Low Bar (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142841)

Ryan Dognaux 01-02-2016 11:46
Re: Low Bar
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb) (Post 1533369)
The difference is that you had squarish robots parkng in a squarish space. This year the park and shoot area is a trapezoid which will make it easier for defenders to turn you so you miss. That said, there are ways to minimize the defenders defense. Such as a turret shooter or a trapezoidal robot.

Speaking of which, has any team ever made a trapezoid robot?
Depending on the width of your frame plus your bumper height, you could still square yourself up using the polycarbonate lane dividers on the batter. You just need to be able to shoot very close to the tower. See the attached picture.

AllenGregoryIV 01-02-2016 11:55
Re: Low Bar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux (Post 1533403)
Depending on the width of your frame plus your bumper height, you could still square yourself up using the polycarbonate lane dividers on the batter. You just need to be able to shoot very close to the tower. See the attached picture.
From that picture it still looks like a defnder could twist you around if they hit one of your back corners. Also the polycarbonate will flex some meaning you aren't in exactly the same position every time.

Jared Russell 01-02-2016 12:06
Re: Low Bar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Johnson (Post 1533098)
The shape that you need to be able to get under to limbo is surprisingly complicated...[snip]
Moreover, a robot that has been designed to fit under the low bar as a rigid swept volume may find that things work a bit differently at 10+ feet per second...and especially with bouncy wheels...

mrwright 01-02-2016 12:23
Re: Low Bar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux (Post 1533403)
Depending on the width of your frame plus your bumper height, you could still square yourself up using the polycarbonate lane dividers on the batter. You just need to be able to shoot very close to the tower. See the attached picture.
This is a little off topic of the low bar but this diagram brings up an interesting point. If this robot is up on the batten scoring and a defensive robot parks perpendicular behind it and the offensive robot cannot push it out of the way is it still considered a pin? I imagine that teams may have trouble with traction due to the batten material.

I haven't seen an official pinning definition in the Q&A yet. Does it count as a pin to just park there and hold them if we don't initiate contact?

laplacier 01-02-2016 12:45
Re: Low Bar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwright (Post 1533426)
This is a little off topic of the low bar but this diagram brings up an interesting point. If this robot is up on the batten scoring and a defensive robot parks perpendicular behind it and the offensive robot cannot push it out of the way is it still considered a pin? I imagine that teams may have trouble with traction due to the batten material.

I haven't seen an official pinning definition in the Q&A yet. Does it count as a pin to just park there and hold them if we don't initiate contact?
I'd like to know this as well.

s_forbes 01-02-2016 12:54
Re: Low Bar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Russell (Post 1533419)
Moreover, a robot that has been designed to fit under the low bar as a rigid swept volume may find that things work a bit differently at 10+ feet per second...and especially with bouncy wheels...
We reconfigured the kit chassis to use pneumatic wheels and did lots of testing with it over the defenses with uneven terrain. Here it is crossing just an empty platform at roughly full speed with nothing in the way. We unintentionally flipped that drivetrain upside down just once, but it wasn't when going over the rock wall or moat... it was when we went full speed over an empty platform and tried to slow down at the end.

Crossing defenses is very dynamic, CAD doesn't really show whether a design will work or not. Adding pneumatic wheels just makes things even more unpredictable. We weren't at all happy with that 6wd pneumatic setup, we're doing something else.

mrwright 01-02-2016 13:04
Re: Low Bar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by laplacier (Post 1533442)
I'd like to know this as well.
I just posted this question to the Q&A. We'll see what they say...

https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Que...sive-robot-par

Monochron 01-02-2016 13:06
Re: Low Bar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by s_forbes (Post 1533443)
Crossing defenses is very dynamic, CAD doesn't really show whether a design will work or not. Adding pneumatic wheels just makes things even more unpredictable. We weren't at all happy with that 6wd pneumatic setup, we're doing something else.
What about it were you unhappy with?

Monochron 01-02-2016 13:08
Re: Low Bar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwright (Post 1533451)
I just posted this question to the Q&A. We'll see what they say...

https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Que...sive-robot-par
Off topic, but why do people keep calling the Batter, Battens? Us the Batter similar to ship battens or something like that?

dradel 01-02-2016 13:11
Perhaps using phone to post and spell check is helping out lol

IronicDeadBird 01-02-2016 13:18
Re: Low Bar
 
Planning yes but I see some weird things happening when we run the simulation.

Ryan Dognaux 01-02-2016 14:24
Re: Low Bar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwright (Post 1533426)
I haven't seen an official pinning definition in the Q&A yet. Does it count as a pin to just park there and hold them if we don't initiate contact?
I'd be surprised if it wasn't pinning / trapping. Especially once the robot makes a move to leave that area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV
From that picture it still looks like a defender could twist you around if they hit one of your back corners. Also the polycarbonate will flex some meaning you aren't in exactly the same position every time.
Agree that the polycarbonate would flex some. It definitely isn't as nice as 2014's corner shot but we're hoping it'll be good enough.

MisterG 01-02-2016 15:03
Re: Low Bar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaGiC_PiKaChU (Post 1532801)
except maybe C because no one seems to care
This!

FrankJ 01-02-2016 15:24
Re: Low Bar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwright (Post 1533426)
This is a little off topic of the low bar but this diagram brings up an interesting point. If this robot is up on the batten scoring and a defensive robot parks perpendicular behind it and the offensive robot cannot push it out of the way is it still considered a pin? I imagine that teams may have trouble with traction due to the batten material.

I haven't seen an official pinning definition in the Q&A yet. Does it count as a pin to just park there and hold them if we don't initiate contact?
I not sure how good of a defensive strategy that is. The match is effectively 2 on 2, but the rest of the court is left wide open for the other robots to score. and if you are not clear of the court yard in the last 20 secs of the match, you risk big penalties.

IronicDeadBird 01-02-2016 15:33
Re: Low Bar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwright (Post 1533426)
This is a little off topic of the low bar but this diagram brings up an interesting point. If this robot is up on the batten scoring and a defensive robot parks perpendicular behind it and the offensive robot cannot push it out of the way is it still considered a pin? I imagine that teams may have trouble with traction due to the batten material.

I haven't seen an official pinning definition in the Q&A yet. Does it count as a pin to just park there and hold them if we don't initiate contact?
I'm not a ref or part of the GDC but my understanding is that pinning is defined as one robot not being able to move at all from a location.


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