Scaling the Tower
 

What is your team's strategy involving the low bar and hanging on the tower.

Edit - Yes I see the yest instead of yes

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

I voted yes for both, but our climber is being developed as an "if we have time" addition for if we actually have our scoring mechanisms working semi-reliably before build stop. It all depends on the next week or so of build, and there's a decent chance that we will not do it.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

Same thing for us as Whippet says, our focus is breaching the defenses, then shooting low/high goals, then scaling if we have the time to develop it before stop day. I think that the best robots will be able to scale, because it's essentially a free 10 points that a lot of teams are just discounting as too difficult. The difficulty lies in developing it before the end of the build season.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

We are also attempting low and hanging. But that is only the plan it isn't reality yet.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

We plan to do both - just not necessarily at our first event. (districts are so cool!)

We are attempting both and it looks good. The climbing mechanism is pretty much done just waiting on some sponsor made parts and it's made to articulate.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

Is everyone just doing the hanging mechanism as the last thing on the priority list?

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

Our lifting mechanism also doubles as our defense articulating mechanism, so, nope.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

Is anyone planning on assisting another team and helping them scale?

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

All I'm learning from these CD polls is that teams are incredibly optimistic at this point in the build season. Going under the low bar and climbing is going to be pretty rare.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

It's not so much that it's the last thing on the priority list - it's actually 3rd on ours for game-specific strategies - it's just that to meaningfully prototype and design it, we kind of need a 'complete' robot.
Strategically, the ability to scale is pretty high. From a design standpoint, it's something we can iterate on our practice bot after ship day to get a good system. We want to make sure the rest of the robot is rock-solid* as well.


*boulder-solid?

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

I think so. At the district events, the most important things will be breaching, and capturing the tower. If you can do one or both of those things well, you have a decent shot at getting to the District Championship or Worlds, depending on how your local FIRST events are structured.

Once you get to District Champs and Worlds, is when scaling will be more important, because everyone will be *very good* and every extra point will count. That is why I think most people are leaving it as a low priority now, but it will be more important once you get closer to Worlds.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

Definitely not. Scailing is above high goal shooting for us, but below most of the defenses.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

We plan to have a low robot that scales, but the climbing mechanism is our lowest priority.... It's in development and should work at some point this season - likely for our first event, but...

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

no.

Drive is last priority. :yikes:

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

Planning on doing both is not rare at all.

Actually doing both will be rare.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

That's an interesting question. I think it's the lowest item on the priority list that we've been actively working on, but that doesn't mean we don't plan to have it complete by bag day. Rather that other items, like drive train, electronics, and boulder manipulations are considered more critical/important to accomplish. Hanging is great, but it's just the last 20 seconds of the match. If all you can do is hang, then your use the rest of the match may be questionable. Instead, if you can take care of defenses or boulders, you can be useful the entire match, even if you can't hang. So, by necessity hanging becomes lower priority.

There are other items that are even lower than hanging on our priority list. For example, while we plan to be able to do several of the defensive groups ourselves, we probably won't be able to do all of them. Space, weight, and time constraints all are considerations. But, they are still on the list, just low enough down that they aren't being actively worked on, and likely won't be.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

Scaling is pretty low on our list...it doesn't contribute much to getting ranking points. But then, manipulating the moving defenses is also pretty low on our list. And shooting high goals is behind a few other things...like being able to get through most of the defenses (with assistance from our alliance partners), and collecting boulders, and getting rid of boulders

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

Scaling is the first thing we dropped from the "want to do everything" list. We're building to defeat all but the draw bridge and sally port solo, and secondarily to have a good pickup and score high goals in auto or teleop.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

For us it was the very first prototype unit made... hanging is important to this game to be in final alliance

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

not exactly, our team is planning to use extending hooks attached to our launcher so its about as important to us as launching

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

Yeah, it's kind of the same for our team. In past years, we've had to develop a relatively simple drive base and a manipulator on top - easy

This year, we have to develop a complex drive base and a laucher, and a climbing mechanism, and a sally port / portcullis articulator, ect. This year has been much harder to strategize and many more things to design and build (let alone practice)

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

What is the estimated amount of power needed to lift the robot up the tower using a winch type mechanism.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

This Much Power

I'd recommend checking out the linear mechanism tab of the 2016 JVN Calculator.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

In BreakAway, my team climbed using a single CIM motor, through a Dewalt transmission and an additional small reduction with chain to the winch. Not terribly fast.

In Ultimate Ascent, we climbed using two mini-CIMs through a toughbox mini transmission, direct drive on the winch. Fairly fast for the lifting portion.

So, the amount needed I would say is one CIM. But more power means a faster climb, and fast climbs are probably going to be useful.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

Thanks

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

Does anyone else have any input? I like the idea of the two mini sims but I am open to any other ideas.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

how bout 4 CIMS?
They are already on your robot

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

That may be too much!

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

In Ultimate Ascent our 2nd level climber used a winch powered by a cimulator gearbox with 2 RS-550 motors. It wasn't fast, but it was fast enough. That robot was within a pound of maximum.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

I like that idea.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

There's no such thing as too much power! What Bruceb is referring to is a PTO shifter. Like this one from AndyMark. It allows you to use the power of your drive motors for another function.

Another idea would be to use a 775pro in a versa planetary with whatever gear ratio that you think you need. 120:1 seems like it would work. I'm not 100% sure how the 775pro would perform in that type of application, but it has plenty of power.

Re: Scaling the Tower
 

That would depend on how fast you want to lift.

Robot weight in Newtons * height(meters) you are lifting your center of mass
divide by how fast you want to do it... (in seconds)

this gives you the minimum power in watts for the lift.

of course you do have some energy going to heat and friction but at least you will see the minimum amount of power you need.

You will also have to consider at what current you are running your motor(s) to determine what the power output is going to be. Look at your motor curves, etc.

At least it will put you in the ballpark.

300 watts of power can do 300 joules of work in 1 second.

If robot weighs in at 680 Newtons (around 150 lbs).... and you lift 1 meter you will need 680 Joules of work to be done.

If you do it in 10 seconds you only need 68 watts of power for that time.
If you do it in 1 second you will need 680 watts of power for that time.