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-   -   What will separate the good from the great? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142968)

Andrew Schreiber 01-02-2016 13:16
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
Same thing that always does: consistency. A good team could put up 2 stacks last year in a match. A great team could put up 2 stacks in EVERY match.

RoboChair 01-02-2016 13:30
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjd13 (Post 1533343)
Hello Chief Delphi,

What do you all think will separate the "good teams" from the "great teams" once the game starts being played at a high level?(regional championships/worlds). I'm predicting that that by regionals and worlds, the defenses will be breached every match, and the tower will be captured most matches. So if every alliance can do that, what will set the winners above?

Last year, it was the recycling containers. Whoever got the most would win, because it was a given that each alliance could make enough 6 stacks that could be capped. This year, if it is a given that every alliance will breach and capture, here's what I think will set the winners apart.

1. Whoever scores the most in auto.

2. Whoever can scale

3. Whoever shoots high goals more reliably.

What do you think?
Yes!

Drakxii 01-02-2016 13:37
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
Speed... Like it does every year. A good team is consistency, a great team is consistency AND FAST.

pandamonium 01-02-2016 14:07
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
Good coaching and well practiced drive teams.

Citrus Dad 01-02-2016 18:17
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1533460)
Same thing that always does: consistency. A good team could put up 2 stacks last year in a match. A great team could put up 2 stacks in EVERY match.
A great team could put up at least THREE stacks in every match like clockwork. (Some put up more.)

philso 01-02-2016 18:48
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakxii (Post 1533482)
Speed... Like it does every year. A good team is consistency, a great team is consistency AND FAST.
Being consistent first allows you to figure out how to become fast much easier than if you are not consistent.

cadandcookies 01-02-2016 19:00
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1533460)
Same thing that always does: consistency. A good team could put up 2 stacks last year in a match. A great team could put up 2 stacks in EVERY match.
Was going to say exactly the same thing. The separation between the good and the great is just about always consistency and, after that, speed. With all the options this year, your precise strategy isn't nearly as important as your ability to execute it consistently and effectively.

tindleroot 01-02-2016 19:05
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
There's only one way to score unlimited points: Boulder scoring (High Goal especially). There's where the best teams will be winning. At the highest level of play, you have to assume that you need to outscore your opponents with boulders in order to win, since full breaches and capturing(scaling?) will be happening every match in elims at good events. If you outscore your opponents with autonomous or capturing, then you have to score fewer boulders to win, or vice versa, you need to score even more boulders to win if your opponents have the edge in auto and capturing.

tldr; you MUST score more points in boulders to win at the higher levels of play. This comes from an alliance that is quicker, more consistent, or able to shut out opponents' scoring with defense.

Andrew Schreiber 01-02-2016 19:47
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Dad (Post 1533607)
A great team could put up at least THREE stacks in every match like clockwork. (Some put up more.)
/s/2/3

The number doesn't really matter. Do something once or twice and you're good. Do something every time and you're great. I picked a number tbh.

Mike Schreiber 01-02-2016 19:53
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
I'm curious at what level of play the bonus RP from a successful breach goes from 'gets you ahead of the pack' to 'if you don't have this every match you can't seed top 8' - That's my prediction for District Champs.

Jcarbon 01-02-2016 21:02
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindleroot (Post 1533628)
There's only one way to score unlimited points: Boulder scoring
I think this gets at one of the most important strategic concepts in this game: breach points are a simpler, easier, and more efficient way of scoring points, but they are capped every match. Boulder points are harder - they involve cycles, defense, accuracy, etc. - but they are unlimited. So, to be effective, you need to always take advantage of the easy points by breaching quickly, but you also need to be ready for when the easy points are gone and shooting is necessary.

Peyton Yeung 01-02-2016 21:30
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcarbon (Post 1533668)
I think this gets at one of the most important strategic concepts in this game: breach points are a simpler, easier, and more efficient way of scoring points, but they are capped every match. Boulder points are harder - they involve cycles, defense, accuracy, etc. - but they are unlimited. So, to be effective, you need to always take advantage of the easy points by breaching quickly, but you also need to be ready for when the easy points are gone and shooting is necessary.
It's like 2013 between shooting and climbing. With climbing there was a 50 point cap. With shooting it was unlimited (for most teams).

Edxu 01-02-2016 21:43
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
I think that good low bots will be able to breach 2-3 defenses and then feed a shooter or score low goals, and a great low bot will be able to breach 4-5 defenses quickly while single-handedly weakening the tower.

A good high bot/shooter specialist will hit >50% of their shots at the same rate that they are fed balls by a low bot, and a great high bot/shooter specialist will hit 80-90% of their shots, and still have time to roam the courtyard and harrass the opponent's defender, maybe even stealing a ball or two from the Secret Passage.

However, I would agree that consistency is one thing that makes a robot great. A robot that can do something amazing twice out of ten is arguably less useful to an alliance than a robot that can do something easy every single time.

Tom Line 02-02-2016 01:20
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
There will be a handful of robots this year, I'd say no more than perhaps 10 or 15, that will be able to accurately score the ball from 'long range'. This is the most difficult shooting game the GDC has ever given us. I may even be over-estimating that number. Those will be the elite.

The only variable in this game will come down to tower scoring. Einstein will come down to tower scoring. Both sides will breach, both sides will get full or near full auto points. The only differentiating factor will be the number of balls you can put in that tower. In fact, a defender that is max height and does a good job might very well decide the outcome by slowing the tower scoring of one of the teams.

waialua359 02-02-2016 04:17
Re: What will separate the good from the great?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line (Post 1533771)
There will be a handful of robots this year, I'd say no more than perhaps 10 or 15, that will be able to accurately score the ball from 'long range'. This is the most difficult shooting game the GDC has ever given us. I may even be over-estimating that number. Those will be the elite.
.
Tom,
is the 'long range' you are referring to from the 'safe zone' after you traverse one of the barriers?
If so, then I would think it would be a lot more considering no legal defense.


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