ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

This poll is amusing to me. Clearly CD polls mean very little, so we may as well make another one!

What will be the ratio of successful 2-ball autos to G13 infractions this year? I'm not interested in attempts at two-ball routines, both balls scored is the only thing that counts.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

First... I am assuming that you are eliminating G13 infractions that occur when robots are not attempting 2-boulder auto routines....

There will likely be more successful auto routines than infractions because:
* Most teams will not even attempt a 2-boulder auto. Those that do will generally know what they are doing.
* Teams with a 2-boulder auto will generally know whether or not it will work before they get to the court. If it's not working, they will just do a much simpler 1 boulder shot.
* Because of the penalty for failure, teams who are not comfortable with their routine, will not try it in a match.
* Some attempts at the routine will fail elsewhere (getting hung up in a defense, for instance) and not have the opportunity to cross the mid-line.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

I double-double-double dog dare opponents to put the wrong defense in the middle :rolleyes:.

The sequencing to prevent a [G13] penalty seems pretty straightforward. Whether or not a ref suffers from parallax in calling [G13] is another thing. For Worlds it seems like we'll need a 'foul line' sensor like what the sport of bowling has.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

Why would teams pull a G13 from a well planned 2 ball auto?

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

Early attempts on the actual FRC field will cause robot wheels to slip. Later attempts to 'race' the opponents will cause robot momentum to move the robot too far. So [G13] is inevitable in making the attempt for a 2-ball autonomous, even with a well-refined autonomous, IMO.

It's easy to make up 5 points of fouls for grazing the auto line, but not so easy if contact is made with the opponents. So the risk/reward is there to 'race' the opponent and to attempt the 2-ball before the robot is 100% perfect.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

Oddly specific case but okay. I can tell you right now some teams are going to do a 2 (or potentially more) ball auto without ever pulling a G13.
These students are crafty sons of guns....
They appear to be learning...

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

Sure they're crafty, but does physics agree with them? Is their autonomous accurate to within less than an inch? Even if so, will it be blatantly obvious to a ref on the center line that they're not a hair over?

Seems like a gentleman's bet is in order...

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

Apparently, I did not make the range large enough.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

Wait is no one else attaching a shopvac to the back of their robot?

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

Alright the way I would phrase the bet is like this.
I would be that any team that follows the method our team is planning on using for a 2 ball auto would not pull a g13 for any reason but stupidity.
Even in failing the 2 ball auto we would not pull a g13.
Basically if we flop and pull a g13 we deserve it.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

Getting within an inch is not terribly difficult as long as you start your robot in the same position consistently, and who says you even need to be within that margin?

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

I'm starting to think getting a G13 might be worth it.

single ball + cross = 20 points
2 balls + cross + g13 = 25 points (30 to you and 5 to the opponents)

The last boulder would give only a 5 point advantage, but you get to weaken the tower by 1 more boulder every match.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

A safer alternative would be to score an alliance partner's boulder (that wasn't planning on scoring it in autonomous). I'm willing to bet that we won't see 3 robots on an alliance score their boulders until late into the season. It'll get you the same amount of points, and without the risk of G13.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

This seem harder than in previous years because this year requires the ball to be off the floor to start.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

It is a harder task, but is it harder than picking up from the middle of the field without being called for G13? You get your schedule ahead of time, you do some pre scouting and ask a team that isn't planning on scoring their boulder in autonomous to gently place it on the ground for you. It takes coordination, which may be difficult, but it is a safer alternative and in my opinion easier to execute than picking up from the mid line as it doesn't require your autonomous to be perfect down to centimetres.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

We would MUCH rather pick up from the mid-line.... It may be a bit tricky, but the boulders are in very predictable locations - which can be programmed from our shop... Coordinating such a thing with another robot would require specialization every match we attempt it (generally there would not be time) and runs the risk of mistakes. (We make plenty of mistakes with our own robot, we don't need to compound them with another team's errors.)

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

Yes, it requires both robots to work well, but it is doable.

Imagine this scenario: You just picked your alliance for elims. You have a lunch break before the matches start. It isn't inconceivable to get this working in that hour if the robot doing the scoring has a way of tracking balls, knowing where it is on the field, and preferably some sort of waypoint based trajectory planner to put everything together so you don't have to guess and check every step of the way.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

Until you start racking up yellow cards for repeated infractions of the rules.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

Or... You can simply pick an alliance member who can score its own boulder while crossing a defense.....

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

I suspect there will be several regionals where it is impossible to draft an alliance where all 3 robots can cross a defense and score in the high goal.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

Joenac says there will not be a single regional/district where an elimination alliance has 3 robots that cross a defence and score in the high goal. Joenac is considering expanding that to every event except IRI.

Re: ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions
 

An auto ball is worth 10 points, and a G13 foul is worth -5 points. If teams play smart, there will be fewer than twice as many G13s as second boulders scored. I expect the actual ratio to be worse than this; teams tend to be optimistic.