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-   -   What way does the Cheval de Frise go? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143094)

Arhowk 04-02-2016 12:48

Re: What way does the Cheval de Frise go?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher149 (Post 1535002)
If the Cheval de Frise is down-up-down-up, then figures 2-5 and 2-7 in the manual are wrong (showing up-down-up-down).



The manual shows two different orientations.

The two pictures you are referring to in the manual are pictures of the elements themselves, they do not bear any positioning elements. Admittedly, it is misleading, but there is nothing around the two figures that say "this is how the defense will be seen from your drive station to the enemy's barter"

Figure 2-1 clearly shows the cheval de frise orientation with respect to the rest of the field.

Jared 04-02-2016 14:40

Re: What way does the Cheval de Frise go?
 
I think there's some miscommunication and confusion going on about the cheval de frise.
There's no way to take the cheval de frise that's shown in 2-5 and 2-7 and put it in a field and have it look like the drawing in 2-1. Figures 2-5 and 2-7 show up-down-up-down for both sides, and 2-1 shows the opposite.

If the cheval de frise goes up-down-up-down on one side, it goes up-down-up-down on the other side too. There's no way to put it in backward, and rotating it 180 degrees will not change the orientation. We don't need to see the orientation of the defense with respect to the field to know that there is an inconsistency.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Arhowk (Post 1535005)
The two pictures you are referring to in the manual are pictures of the elements themselves, they do not bear any positioning elements. Admittedly, it is misleading, but there is nothing around the two figures that say "this is how the defense will be seen from your drive station to the enemy's barter"

Figure 2-1 clearly shows the cheval de frise orientation with respect to the rest of the field.


Hallry 04-02-2016 14:49

Re: What way does the Cheval de Frise go?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike dennis (Post 1534919)
And we have an answer.

Q&A

As Mike posted, the Q&A confirmed that the Game Manual and official field drawings are correct:

Quote:

Q. According to FE-00039 in the 2016 Field Assembly document and 2016 Game Manual Figure 2-1, the Cheval de Frise is positioned so the panels are oriented “Down-Up-Down-Up” when viewed left-right. However, on the field shown in the FIRST STRONGHOLD Game Reveal and Field Tour videos posted on the FRCTeamsGlobal YouTube Channel the panels are oriented "Up-Down-Up-Down." Can you confirm that the orientation shown in the Field Assembly document and Game Manual is correct?


A. Confirmed. The Field Drawing and Game Manual display the correct orientation.
So the panels are oriented as so:

Jared 04-02-2016 16:05

Re: What way does the Cheval de Frise go?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1535045)
As Mike posted, the Q&A confirmed that the Game Manual and official field drawings are correct:



So the panels are oriented as so:

The field drawings and manual are NOT correct. They are inconsistent. There's no possible way for this cheval de frise
to look like this .

Rotating the cheval de frise doesn't change the orientation!

Rachel Lim 04-02-2016 17:29

Re: What way does the Cheval de Frise go?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared (Post 1535092)
The field drawings and manual are NOT correct. They are inconsistent. There's no possible way for this cheval de frise [image]
to look like this [image].

Rotating the cheval de frise doesn't change the orientation!

Yep. Unless you're looking at a mirror, the cheval de frise is always up/down/up/down or down/up/down up, regardless of how you flip it. There has been a lot of inconsistency between officially posted documents. Images that I've found:

Down/up/down/up:

Team version drawings, page 20.


Field component drawings, page 50.


Field assembly drawings, page 1.


Game manual, page 3 (section 1.2), page 8 (section 2).

Other: the google cardboard images

Up/down/up/down:

Game manual, page 11 (section 2.2.2.1).

Other: the old game manual entire field diagrams, the one page game description

Hallry 05-02-2016 17:14

Re: What way does the Cheval de Frise go?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared (Post 1535092)
The field drawings and manual are NOT correct. They are inconsistent.

You are correct, thanks for point this out. We have submitted a follow-up question to the Q&A:

Quote:

Follow up to Q757. We have just noticed that 2016 Game Manual Figures 2-5 and 2-7 show the Cheval de Frise oriented as Up-Down-Up-Down. This is inconsistent with Game Manual Figure 2-1 and FE-00039 in the 2016 Field Assembly document that shows Down-Up-Down-Up. Do Figures 2-5 and 2-7 need to be changed?
I will post an update here once this question has been answered.

Hallry 07-02-2016 23:29

Re: What way does the Cheval de Frise go?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1535676)
I will post an update here once this question has been answered.

And we got an answer:

Quote:

Q. Follow up to Q757. We have just noticed that 2016 Game Manual Figures 2-5 and 2-7 show the Cheval de Frise oriented as Up-Down-Up-Down. This is inconsistent with Game Manual Figure 2-1 and FE-00039 in the 2016 Field Assembly document that shows Down-Up-Down-Up. Do Figures 2-5 and 2-7 need to be changed?

A. Good catch! Figures 2-5 and 2-7 will be updated in Team Update 09 to show the correct platform orientation.
Meaning that this is the correct orientation:


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