Watch out for experimental chambers that increase the force of gravity at the team parties. You don't want to mess with those.

we didn't. if you booked a WDC subsideized package you had to pay even more for meaningless crap that Walt thinks i can't live without.
i can't help what they do and don't get from my money. if they only get 30 from everybody's original 75 we still have to pay the 75. if i charged $50 for a crappy shirt i couldn't justify it by saying, well, i only get 25 from it, the rest goes to fund the free coffee in the executive board room.



nice word

[quote]Originally posted by Michael Krass
[b]

competition site, remember the fairly large blue tent?
i can and i was appauled

this has gone way beyond intelligent discussion.


cool word the first time...not so cool anymore (use a thesaurus)
"Gracious Professionalism" once again another overused phrase that has lost all meaning. Yes, debate is fun. however, i have a life. i don't have time to look for meaningless facts while i wait on somebody to respond to a forum argument. i did not shut my mouth. i voiced my opinion, you voiced yours, i voiced mine (and tried to end it), you voiced yours (thus once again calling me out) and so i backed up my opinion with basically things that i have said before. you haven't really produced any new information that should make anybody change their mind. i (sorrowfully) will not be attending nationals this year as my team is an even number and it will be an odd year, so we cannot have this debate again. for those who are there, it becomes a good case of buyer beware...FIRST is a great organization when it comes to the game/recruiting/awards etc etc etc. however, learn to party.
now i will attempt to end this (again) in the immortal words of my mother. "he started it and you end it. be the bigger person" i did and i am.

I'm not a big person, so I'm going to chime in on this. You paid the $75 dollars because you and your team chose not to purchase a Disney Resort package for the Championships. That money went towards the site production / logistics, bus transport, and the wrap party. Everyone else that booked with Disney didn't have to pay the $75 beacause it was included with our package. So either way, everyone ended up paying for the buses, the site, and the party.

As for the food, if you would have purchased a Disney package you would have gotten lunch and breakfast coupons which easily would have saved you money and then you proabably wouldnt be complaining about the prices, I know they were high, but its Disney. My friends and I easily got $10-$15 worth of food from every coupon, which is why FIRST encouraged buying the Disney packages.

As for all the other ".. meaningless crap that Walt thinks i can't live without." that you got with the Disney packages, I think it was a good deal, food, a park hopper, hotel, and Disney transport.

So all in all, everyone eventually paid the $75, some seperate and some within their packages.

We can't help that you didn't enjoy the party / entertainment, you can't please everyone, but you sure can try and I think FIRST tried pretty hard.

Well said, Ricky. That's about what I was going to say. I know it seems a little excessive to be charged $75 in addition to everything else, but when you look at what you get, it's not bad.

You are correct it has, but only because you chose to take it down that path. Not once did Michael get personal or attack you. You took the discussion in that direction, not him. What is the point of bringing another person's choice of words into an intelligent conversation? It merely insults the other person, exhibits a lack of debating skill, and fails to provide any meaningful argumentative points. Instead of real debate you have taken the conversation down the path of pop culture debate where one either shouts down one's opponent, picks apart small meaningless points of an opponent's argument, presents personal opinions as fact, or resorts to personal insults. In order to hold a civil debate, avoid these tactics at all costs.

Nicely put Michael, I couldn't have said it better myself, but of course I'll try anyway. Quality debate without personal attacks can be very constructive; a little debate now and then is healthy. As long as people stick to the subject there is nothing wrong with discussing disagreements with others.

Far too often people on these forums have called for the end to discussions just because they have gotten intense. Why? As long as the conversation stays civil and non-personal, let it continue and some good ideas may come out of it.

Mike

I am quoting the entire body of a message I'd written several months ago, outlining the cost of a Disney package versus what you might achieve on your own - booking under normal conditions.

* * *

Our team opted for the 5 day package at Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort.

The cost? $443.69 per person assuming four people to a room.

If I were to book this same thing independently, accounting for everything included in the package, for four people, this is what I came up with:

Room: Regular season rate of $154/night. We'll round to $160 and be generous about hotel taxes and things.

So, one hotel room for four nights - $616.00

Park Media: Four day park hopper pass, adult rate - $203.52 +tax. I'm ignoring tax.

So, passes for four people - $814.08

Food: The package provides for 3 breakfast coupons and 3 lunch/dinner coupons per person. I'm assuming prices, and being a bit generous here. So, I'm making each meal coupon a value of $10.

6 meals, four people, $10 per meal - $240.00

Commemorative Gift: We get a t-shirt.

4 T-shirts @$20 - $80.00

Grand total? $1750.08
Price per person? $437.52

What're we paying again? $443.69. ~$5 more.

So, as best as I can see (unless I'm overlooking something huge here), things on the Disney end of things seem Kosher. This neglects to mention of course, the costs passed on to each person to cover the costs associated with the event's infrastructure, and all of the rippling costs that Disney and FIRST presumably absorb.

Seems like a good deal to me.

* * *

You can find that thread ]here.

Essentially, what this proves is that the price of the package is no different than booking the same thing on your own - except that the package includes a group discount which lowers the overall price, and then adds the $75 event fee, bringing the total to about the same.

In the end? Book through Disney and get the same price as if you booked on your own, but also help to pay for the overhead cost of running the event. Book on your own, possibly save money, and be assesssed a $75 fee.

This is, to quote Mr. Willy Wonka, "clear as crystal." The numbers don't lie, I'm afraid. If you don't want the t-shirt or the meal coupons, book on your own, pay the event fee, and be done with it.

Again, forgive me for assuming something about this discussion. Disney operates at a loss for this event. They make no money whatsoever from the event itself. You pay $75. From that, $30 goes to party. An additional $10, perhaps, goes to setting up the tents, $5 to providing bus transportation, $5 to paying Mandy Moore, and $25 goes to staff salaries. There is no profit.

So, given that, your example is extraneous.




As Ricky has previously mentioned, I'm fairly certain that the meal coupons provided you with more food per dollar that you might otherwise receive. Without the meal coupons, caveat emptor.



Again, allow me refer to another post. Mike Soukup hit the nail on the head here. Thanks, Mike.



Well, again keeping in mind what Mike has written, allow me to further point out that I don't need the aid of a thesaurus to make my arguments seem powerful and intelligent. They already are powerful and intelligent, and on their own merit, thanks.



In fairness, you were the first to mention it. If and how it is overused, if at all, is another discussion entirely.



And similarly, I am not one to allow misinformation and incorrect facts, researched or otherwise, to stand unchallenged in a public forum. I hope that, given the extensive resources and links I have provided, I haven't wasted too of your time with these meaningless facts.

Again, I'll reiterate - feel free to share your opinions with us here on the ChiefDelphi forums, but please understand that for such a community to work efficiently and to affect real, positive change, it requires that we each take responsibility for our actions. In that vein, I don't believe that one should post anything, lest they be ready and willing to be taken to task, and asked to defend their claim. If you're not willing to spend the time necessary to make an intelligent criticism of what I've written, please don't reply; or, better yet, don't post in the first place.

In my mind, this is nothing but a clever attempt at passive-aggressive behavior, as it stresses, somehow, that I'm at fault, or otherwise unfairly asking for your defense of what I perceive to be an untenable argument.

The choice to reply always lies with you, just as it does with me. I won't say anything more, for fear of going, "way beyond intelligent discussion."

I think the food from 2 years ago was better than this year.

Yes 2000's party was a lot better than the previous ones, it still wasnt good, but it was better

Biddy: were you even around in 2000? and if so what team were you with

I mean the 2001 season. It was also more exciting than 2002. We were 465 then.

lol it seems that this "debating" about the National Competition's Party might last until the next one...;)

OO I have a feeling that this debate could go on for several years if Mr Brandon doesnt close it first

if he dosn't close it, i'll delete my first post, and stop if for good!

Let it go.

<happy voice used in the end of disney movies> The end </happy voice used in the end of disney movies>

not to dwell, but that sounds like more of a personal attack than anything i said.


bygones.

Quote:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Michael Krass Collin, do you care to refute my argument? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- not to dwell, but that sounds like more of a personal attack than anything i said.

...or, a simple question.

But, like you said, 'bygones'. People can read this and decide for themselves who provided a solid argument.

collin, michael please.... this isn't the place... :(