Chief Delphi
Page 4 of 8 < 123 4 5678 >
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)
-   Technical Discussion (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22)
-   -   Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143884)

bachster 01-03-2016 13:32
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin417 (Post 1549646)
A quick exhaust valve is not covered by that rule, because it is not a pressure vent plug. A quick exhaust valve is a three port valve that passe air from one port to another port in one direction, but to an exhaust port in the other direction.
Sorry, I was referring to the 3-way valve that has a knob, Allen's third link. Since it only vents air from one direction, it seems there could potentially be an improper use where it would isolate a section from the vent plug which would then violate R89. Although maybe in order to get this you'd need to connect it "backwards" and it would then be venting all of the time, so it practice it couldn't really be used incorrectly. I'm just curious if anyone has found a useful application for these.

I agree that the quick exhaust valves are a nice way to vent a cylinder without needing to push air back through the solenoid.

AllenGregoryIV 01-03-2016 13:33
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure (Post 1549650)
The inline pressure regulators linked in this thread are super cool.

The literature says that they contain "a built-in relief valve to exhaust over-pressure." What determines the relief set pressure? Is it a function of the set pressure of the regulator, or is it constant?

Genuinely interested (not trying for a gotcha!) in understanding how this device meets the intent of R82.
It means it's a relieving valve, if you were to set it to 60psi and one of your cylinders that is extended is then compressed by an external force that would increase the system pressure downstream of the regulator to > 60psi this regulator will exhaust pressure maintaining the system at 60psi downstream from it.

AllenGregoryIV 01-03-2016 13:36
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bachster (Post 1549659)
Sorry, I was referring to the 3-way valve that has a knob, Allen's third link. Since it only vents air from one direction, it seems there could potentially be an improper use where it would isolate a section from the vent plug which would then violate R89. Although maybe in order to get this you'd need to connect it "backwards" and it would then be venting all of the time, so it practice it couldn't really be used incorrectly. I'm just curious if anyone has found a useful application for these.

I agree that the quick exhaust valves are a nice way to vent a cylinder without needing to push air back through the solenoid.
The 3 way exhaust valves are useful for isolating a system during maintenance etc. They aren't very useful during a match in my opinion but I could be wrong. You could have a 3 way exhaust valve in front of the solenoids you use to fire a pneumatic catapult. When turned closed the air going to the catapult would be exhausted and the rest of the system would still function but the catapult would be disabled.

Paul Copioli 01-03-2016 13:41
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure (Post 1549650)
The inline pressure regulators linked in this thread are super cool.

The literature says that they contain "a built-in relief valve to exhaust over-pressure." What determines the relief set pressure? Is it a function of the set pressure of the regulator, or is it constant?

Genuinely interested (not trying for a gotcha!) in understanding how this device meets the intent of R82.
The relief feature is based on the set pressure so it completely meets the definition of the rule. If you take a large pneumatic cylinder downstream that is extended and then manually push it back, if the regulator did not exhaust then the regulated pressure will go beyond set pressure.

The exhaust feature is required to be legal. That is why many of us already thought the regulator was legal. This q&a answer confirms it is legal.

AllenGregoryIV 01-03-2016 13:42
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin417 (Post 1549646)
A quick exhaust valve is not covered by that rule, because it is not a pressure vent plug. A quick exhaust valve is a three port valve that passe air from one port to another port in one direction, but to an exhaust port in the other direction.
A quick exhaust valve is however a check valve so it must be used in a way that the system is able to satisfy R89.

Quote:
R89 G. Check valves, provided that the requirements of R89 are still met.
Another useful item that AutomationDirect sales that not enough teams use is 1/4" push connect plugs.
Very useful for closing off solenoids and things. Much easier then using a T fitting and a loop of tube like some teams do.

Nate Laverdure 01-03-2016 14:06
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV (Post 1549660)
It means it's a relieving valve, if you were to set it to 60psi and one of your cylinders that is extended is then compressed by an external force that would increase the system pressure downstream of the regulator to > 60psi this regulator will exhaust pressure maintaining the system at 60psi downstream from it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Copioli (Post 1549664)
The relief feature is based on the set pressure so it completely meets the definition of the rule. If you take a large pneumatic cylinder downstream that is extended and then manually push it back, if the regulator did not exhaust then the regulated pressure will go beyond set pressure.

The exhaust feature is required to be legal. That is why many of us already thought the regulator was legal. This q&a answer confirms it is legal.
Yes, I understand that's the desired function of the valve. With only the Nitra docs as a resource, I couldn't convince myself that the valve actually functions that way. (One concern I had is that the Nitra docs don't use the ISO symbol for a relieving regulator, but the Norgen docs do.) Glad to hear that, based on your experience, the device operates the same way that a "pressure relieving regulator" is generally understood to work.

What a relief, huh?

martin417 01-03-2016 14:38
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV (Post 1549663)
The 3 way exhaust valves are useful for isolating a system during maintenance etc. They aren't very useful during a match in my opinion but I could be wrong. You could have a 3 way exhaust valve in front of the solenoids you use to fire a pneumatic catapult. When turned closed the air going to the catapult would be exhausted and the rest of the system would still function but the catapult would be disabled.
I'm not sure you are thinking of the correct valve. I don't see a way to use a quick exhaust to isolate anything. The advantage of the quick exhaust is to allow the air to vent freely in one direction so it doesn't have to go all the way back to, and then through, the valve. That way a cylinder can act much more quickly. If you were using a cylinder as a pusher or punch for the ball, you could use a quick exhaust on the rod side of the cylinder. That way, when you pressurize the retract (rod side) port, the cylinder would retract, and when you pressurize the extend side, the cylinder would extend, but you would not have to force the air from the rod side all the way back through the tubing to the control valve, instead it could exhaust right there at the cylinder.

Edit: here is a good example.

martin417 01-03-2016 14:39
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV (Post 1549665)
A quick exhaust valve is however a check valve so it must be used in a way that the system is able to satisfy R89.



Another useful item that AutomationDirect sales that not enough teams use is 1/4" push connect plugs.
Very useful for closing off solenoids and things. Much easier then using a T fitting and a loop of tube like some teams do.
It's only a check valve if you plug the exhaust port. You could also plug any other port on the system and violate the rules by trapping air.

FrankJ 01-03-2016 14:40
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
A easy way to tell if a regulator is self relieving (FRC Legal) is on a system with no leaks, a self relieving regulator will decrease the low side pressure when backed off. A non relieving regulator will not.

We used the little AD regulators and quick exhaust valves on an off season project. Cool stuff.

Mark Sheridan 01-03-2016 18:52
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure (Post 1549680)
Yes, I understand that's the desired function of the valve. With only the Nitra docs as a resource, I couldn't convince myself that the valve actually functions that way. (One concern I had is that the Nitra docs don't use the ISO symbol for a relieving regulator, but the Norgen docs do.) Glad to hear that, based on your experience, the device operates the same way that a "pressure relieving regulator" is generally understood to work.

What a relief, huh?
The nitra regulator is actually a metal works regulator (or at least marketed as metal works). I have used the metal works variety since 2014,. they are for sure relieving. I used them on the 3309 's 2014 robot in the intake to relieve air from impacts in addition to running the intake at lower pressure.
the metal works documents are a lot better with their symbols but not perfect:
http://www.metalwork.org/pdf/04_NPT_...A_20_09_13.pdf

I have not noticed a difference from the nitra and metal work samples I have now.

GeeTwo 01-03-2016 23:28
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure (Post 1549680)
What a relief, huh?
B'dmp'bmp'psssh.

AllenGregoryIV 01-03-2016 23:40
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin417 (Post 1549707)
I'm not sure you are thinking of the correct valve. I don't see a way to use a quick exhaust to isolate anything. The advantage of the quick exhaust is to allow the air to vent freely in one direction so it doesn't have to go all the way back to, and then through, the valve. That way a cylinder can act much more quickly. If you were using a cylinder as a pusher or punch for the ball, you could use a quick exhaust on the rod side of the cylinder. That way, when you pressurize the retract (rod side) port, the cylinder would retract, and when you pressurize the extend side, the cylinder would extend, but you would not have to force the air from the rod side all the way back through the tubing to the control valve, instead it could exhaust right there at the cylinder.

Edit: here is a good example.
I'm not talking about a quick exhaust valve in this comment, I'm talking about a 3-way exhausting valve, part H. of rule R77. Such as this
Quote:
R77 H. Shutoff valves which relieve downstream pressure to atmosphere when closed (may also be
known as 3-way or 3-way exhausting valves).
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin417 (Post 1549708)
It's only a check valve if you plug the exhaust port. You could also plug any other port on the system and violate the rules by trapping air.
It's a check valve no mater how you plumb it, it's only legal to use it if you don't plug the exhaust port. The rule that allows quick exhaust valves like this to be used is
Quote:
R77 G. Check valves, provided that the requirements of R89 are still met.
The quick exhaust mechanism is inherently a check valve.

Do you think a different part of R77 applies to quick exhaust valves?

rfolea 02-03-2016 10:02
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
... and as a friendly reminder - look in your KOP for the Automation Direct Voucher instructions ( or go here).

It's valid through Championships (April 30th, actually).

You can order anything you want from Automation Direct's 20,000 part inventory using the $30 voucher. Pneumatics, crimp lugs, tools, safety glasses, sensors/encoders, pulleys/belts/shaft couplers, etc.

And since most of the pneumatic parts mentioned are under $30, well ... you do the math.

Shipping is a flat $6 (not included in the voucher), but if you purchase $49 worth of stuff beyond the Voucher, Shipping s FREE via Fed-ex 2-day. We have Canadian and California teams tell us they get stuff faster from ADC than if they order from local suppliers!

We are pushing this because the more teams use it, the more we will be able to influence next years contribution to FIRST ...

So consider this a gentle nudge to get the word out ... Thanks!

Chris_Elston 02-03-2016 10:26
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfolea (Post 1550148)
... and as a friendly reminder - look in your KOP for the Automation Direct Voucher instructions ( or go here).

It's valid through Championships (April 30th, actually).

You can order anything you want from Automation Direct's 20,000 part inventory using the $30 voucher. Pneumatics, crimp lugs, tools, safety glasses, sensors/encoders, pulleys/belts/shaft couplers, etc.

And since most of the pneumatic parts mentioned are under $30, well ... you do the math.

Shipping is a flat $6 (not included in the voucher), but if you purchase $49 worth of stuff beyond the Voucher, Shipping s FREE via Fed-ex 2-day. We have Canadian and California teams tell us they get stuff faster from ADC than if they order from local suppliers!

We are pushing this because the more teams use it, the more we will be able to influence next years contribution to FIRST ...

So consider this a gentle nudge to get the word out ... Thanks!

I can never get this voucher to work for my team. I think because there is some wacky bug when I login as my company Automation Direct account, it doesn't accept the voucher or something. Is there a clear process for how to use the voucher and if you can login with an existing Automation Direct account? Or should a setup a SEPARATE AD account to use the voucher?

Paul Copioli 02-03-2016 10:40
Re: Pneumatic Regulators from Automation Direct
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Elston (Post 1550163)
I can never get this voucher to work for my team. I think because there is some wacky bug when I login as my company Automation Direct account, it doesn't accept the voucher or something. Is there a clear process for how to use the voucher and if you can login with an existing Automation Direct account? Or should a setup a SEPARATE AD account to use the voucher?
Chris,

I had to use a separate, personal account and it worked fine.

Paul


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:33.
Page 4 of 8 < 123 4 5678 >
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi